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Dear t8,
If you study the situation closely, you will see there is a difference between the baptism that saves and water baptism. There is the difference in calling on the name of Jesus and being baptized in the name of Jesus. That is scriptural.
Last night in a dream, the Lord told me that this issue with being the baptism of being saved and the baptism of water is like the situation with circumcision of the flesh and circumsion of the heart. One is physical and one is spiritual. I am not sure if this is the understanding he wanted me to convey to my brothers here, but he told me to tell you so I did. I pray you have understanding, for I am not in complete understanding and I ask that you pray about it.
Thanks heiscomingintheclouds.
Sure it makes sense that going under water and having certain words spoken over you is not going to save anyone, rather the works of our Lord who paid the price for our sins. After all water is but a physical substance although crucial to physical life.
But Peter tells us to be baptised and then we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We also know that God cannot dwell inside a sinful vessel, so it makes sense that a person who has the Spirit inside, is a redeemed person.
So when we preach the gospel, we primarily focus on believing in Jesus, not as a historical figure but all that he is and did for us. If the hearer believes, then we should point out repentance, and if they are willing, we should baptise them in water immediately in order that they receive the Holy Spirit (the seal).
Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.1 Believe
2 Repent
3 BaptisedI am not trying to setup a 3 stage plan to salvation, but that appears to be the order to me.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 06 2006,22:53) Amen Nick, We must repent. That is what I did. I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins and he washed my sins away with his blood. Just as it says in scripture.
Hi H,
But you would not suggest we follow you would you?
Neither would I suggest any follow me as I was born of the Spirit before water, but it was the Spirit that opened the bible for me and showed me my path was yet not satisfying the righteous demands of God, and so I obeyed them.God was patient with me but I do not preach that testing His patience is the wayThat is why I say follow the Godly instructions given through Peter at Pentecost is the usual order and the Way.
My brothers, I pray that we let the scriptures and the Holy Spirit lead us instead of crafty false teachers.
Heiscominginthecloud,
You quoted Acts 22:16 as a spirit baptism and not a water baptism. OK I have a question for you, Why would he have to ARISE and be baptized? You don't have to get up to be spirit baptized do you?
Acts 9:18 is also an account of Paul's conversion. It it also says he ARISED and was baptized!!!!!!!!
According to Peter, The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God, Acts 5:32.
Also look at Hebrews 5:9;
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; 10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Christ is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him !!!!!
also look at 1John 2:3-5;
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
no obedience, no salvation !!!!!
Again people keep bringing up the thief on the cross. #1 THE BAPTISMAL COMMAND DIDN'T COME UNTIL AFTER JESUS'S RESURRECTION FOLKS !!!!! JESUS WASN'T DEAD WHEN THE PROMISE WAS MADE, SO TECHNICALLY THEY WERE STILL UNDER THE OLD COVENANT!!!!!!!! IF WE ARE GONNA GO BACK TO THE OLD COVENANT TO JUSTIFY NEW COVENANT CONVERSIONS, WHY BE BAPTIZED? HEY MAYBE I'LL JUST GO AND FIND ME A BULL WITHOUT BLEMISH AND SACRIFICE IT TO THE LORD FOR A SIN OFFERING. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT NICK, T8, AND HEISCOMINGINCLOUD? BUT WE ALL KNOW BETTER THAN THAT DON'T WE? IT WON'T FLY.
CIRCUMCISION DIDN'T JUSTIFY ANYONE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, I'M SURE WE ALL CAN AGREE ON THAT. BUT IT WAS COMMANDED BY THE LORD GOD AND ALL DID IT. IF THEY DIDN'T, GOD SAID THAT THEY WOULD BE CUT OFF FROM ALL ISRAEL. AND FOLKS GOD DOESN'T PLAY. HE MEANT WHAT HE SAID.
SATAN HAS BEEN SUCESSFUL IN MAKING PEOPLE VIEW GOD AS SOME BIG TEDDY BEAR DOOR MAT BEING. NOT SO. HE IS TO BE FEARED AND REVERED. ALL SO OFTEN YOU HEAR “GOD WOULDN'T SEND ANYONE TO HELL”. HE WILL BECAUSE HE IS A JUST GOD. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN ETERNITY WITH HIM, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS, HE WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE HE'S JUST. MAKING SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LOVE HIM, GO TO HEAVEN WOULD BE WORST THAN HELL ITSELF. GOD IS JUST AND THOSE OF US WHO CALL OURSELVES MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST OUGHT TO FEAR GOD AND OBEY HIS COMMANDS. I THINK DEMONS FEAR GOD MORE THAN SOME OF US(JAMES 2:19) AND THAT IS TRULY SAD. THE LORD JESUS TOLD US TO FOLLOW THE NARROW ROAD. WIDE IS THE ROAD THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION, BUT NARROW IS THE ROAD THAT LEADS TO LIFE AND FEW FIND IT!!!HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER DROVE ON A NARROW ROAD? THERE ISN'T ALOT OF WIGGLE ROOM IS THERE? NEITHER IS THERE WIGGLE ROOM ON THE ROAD TO LIFE, THE ROAD TO SALVATION!!!!!!!1
SHALOM
Why do you want to do away with the blood of the Lamb? It is the blood of the lamb that saves you. It is not water that washes away your sins.
Quote (Woutlaw @ July 07 2006,18:28) no obedience, no salvation !!!!!
Amen Woutlaw.No obedience, no salvation.
Ephesians 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.I am disappointed in you Woutlaw. I pray the Lord open your eyes and heart. It is the blood of Christ that saves a man. It is the blood of Christ that washes away our sins. Water baptism does not save us.
Baptism in water as commanded and demonstrated doesn't nullify the “Blood of the Lamb”. It supports it.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 06 2006,23:35) I am disappointed in you Woutlaw. I pray the Lord open your eyes and heart. It is the blood of Christ that saves a man. It is the blood of Christ that washes away our sins. Water baptism does not save us.
according to 1john 5:7 or 8 depending on the version of the bible you have, it says that there are three that agree on earth,WATER, BLOOD, AND THE SPIRIT. and it says that these three AGREE as one.
you wanna elaberate on this heiscomingincloud?
Water baptism is symbolism. Period. It should be done. Period.
Will a man lose his salvation if he does not have water baptism? That is for God to decide. Period.Look at it another way.
If we are told to be baptised and we are disobedient to that, then what am I to conclude?
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