Is baptism needed for salvation?

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

You quote Scripture like it disagrees with Scripture when you should know otherwise.

The Eunuch was taught by that he must be baptized in water and so when he saw an opportunity he asked Philip what was stopping him from taking that step. Philip taught immersion in water because it was a step to obtaining the Spirit. Peter does not disagree with Philip so clearly even though it is a necessary step grace is still what saves those that believe. The act of immersion in water is necessary or Phillip would not have taught it but that is useless without the grace of God.

When you claim that Philip or Peter or any other of those that Scripture commends as being true teacher are teaching an addition to the gospel then you are implying they are heretics. Be careful not to gush but sweet water and corrupt water but test your teaching.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by Admin.

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

Peter spoke about the Gentiles and said “No one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized” and yet you propose just that. Why do you think doing so is wise?

[terraricca]

k

then tell me why did the so important life given act of the water baptism was not included into the gentiles requirements ,but was left out ?

what you suggest here is that all the converts were baptized twice into water once for repentance and once in the name of Christ

and so the baptism as been so corrupted that it has created thousands of religion sect and each claim to have the true baptism ,if you feel to be baptized go for it or do it yourself this would be the same thing ,

All those that seem to be baptised by Peter are either Jews or gentiles that have become believers in the God of Israel and so had already being practicing the worship of the true God ,Paul seem the same thing

[kerwin]

terrarica,

The requirements the church of Jerusalem wrote to the other churches were for those that were already immersed in water. In it is thing those that walk according to the Spirit do not do. Even in that case is a guideline as Paul teaches of other works of the flesh in his letters.

Being immersed in water is the means by which the Spirit is received by faith. It is at that point the old man that walks according to the flesh is put to death and the new man that walks according to the Spirit is conceived. (Romans 6)

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

I am not convinced that simply receiving the Holy Spirit is what is called being immersed in the Spirit, unless you are speaking in the same way Jesus was immersed at the Jordon.

Nerveless, Hebrews 6:1-2 speaks of baptisms.

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

You are missing the point and that is both Philip and Peter taught baptism in water as part of the gospel. Hebrews 6:1-2 states that baptisms are an elementary teaching of the gospel.

[terraricca]

K

terrarica,

The requirements the church of Jerusalem wrote to the other churches were for those that were already immersed in water. In it is thing those that walk according to the Spirit do not do. Even in that case is a guideline as Paul teaches of other works of the flesh in his letters.

Being immersed in water is the means by which the Spirit is received by faith. It is at that point the old man that walks according to the flesh is put to death and the new man that walks according to the Spirit is conceived. (Romans 6)

you can see that those words are made up of your opinion ;for scriptures does not say that ;and why would it be said in the letter that this only refer to the already baptized gentiles ;for since when would their be a difference between those gentiles that believe and those that “would be ” baptised ;why then did not the church of jerusalem of the saints send two letters one for the baptized gentiles and one for the gentiles believers but not yet baptized ,do you see that you don’t make much sense, never is it a requirement that save you ,but not believing will certainly not save you ,and as far as the scriptures goes the baptism of John is for the Jews only for all the disciples when always first to the jews wherever they went ,

the holy spirit of truth cannot be obtained unless you yourself live by the truth ,and it is not the act of dipping in water that will give it to you ,

those who received it were merely all Jews or converted to judaism prior to become a christian believer and so be baptized of the baptism of John

even Paul was given the true knowledge prior to be baptized of the baptism of John and then received the holy spirit of truth for all the knowledge he had in him ,

just as Jesus said when you have the old and receive the new you have a double fold treasure

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

Actually it does as it is addressed “To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: “.

[kerwin]

Terraricca,

It is also written:

Acts 15New English Translation (NET Bible)
The Jerusalem Council

15 Now some men came down from Judea and began to teach the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

So in case you doubt that is immersed believers, aka brothers.

[Ed J]

Hi Nick,

Would you say that my water baptism constitutes as a valid water baptism?
(I have explained it starting on page 6 and culminating on page 9)

_______________
God bless
Ed J

[terraricca]

K

it was addressed to the believers from gentile origin ;it does not say baptized or not ;this is what you personally add,

please don’t take a analogy of what I say from the baptism of water with what some jews claim with the circumcision ,this is more to you than me ,

you haven addressed my quote why is that ?

you seem ignoring anything that you have to explain and cannot ;

[terraricca]

hi

all

learn from the scriptures ;

Heb 10:22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. (truth)
Heb 10:23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

were in scriptures does it say that unless we are water baptised we will not be saved ?

but on the other hand it says all over the scriptures UNLESS WE CHANGE OUR WAYS AND FOLLOW THE TRUTH OF GOD we will not be saved ,

the water baptism was for the jews a public gesture toward all their fellow men that they have and will reconcile with their God in full repentance,

if you would look at Cornelius background you will understand that he was a converted to Judaism /law

it seem strange to me why Peter would degrade the holy spirit with a water dip, for the last would be higher than the first right ,(???????)

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

I thought I had addressed your points but I could have missed some. Please just echo the quote you feel I did not answer and I hope to make another effort.

I did not add anything, you did.

There is no evidence any one called a brother was not immersed in water. The evidence is the the Gentiles mentioned in Scripture are either 1) clearly immersed in water or 2) no mention one way or another is made.

You still have the facts that both Peter are are known to have taught water immersion as part of the gospel.

You can continue to listen to those teachers that disagree with those two if you choose but are aware both teach that baptism in water is part of the gospel.

[Miia]

Terraricca, you know you are wrong with baptism. water baptism is a commandment to the church, to Jew and Gentiles. Look (Acts 10):

[34] And Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality,
[35] but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
[36] You know the word which he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace by Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all),
[37] the word which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John preached:
[38] how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
[39] And we are witnesses to all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree;
[40] but God raised him on the third day and made him manifest;
[41] not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
[42] And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that he is the one ordained by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
[43] To him all the prophets bear witness that every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
[44] While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
[45] And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
[46] For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
[47] “Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

[Miia]

1st Peter 3.

[18] For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
[19] in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
[20] who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
[21] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
[22] who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.

[terraricca]

Miia

you read those scriptures wrongly ,you should read them again but only think on what it says ,the only verse you have presented with the word “baptism” is 1 Peter 3;21

but Peter was not talking about the water baptism but the baptism of the newell of ourselves based on our faith in Jesus ;the true meaning of Jesus dead in the flesh is the rejection of the flesh and its works ,(dead to flesh ;resurrection in the spirit ) but resurrecting with a new spirit according to God’s will ,and so become a new creation according to God through Jesus ,

so NO ,i don’t think you have proven me wrong yet ;understand that a act in the flesh cannot bring out the spirit of the spirit of truth of God ,

[terraricca]

K

I quote you that Peter and the disciples baptised in water the Jews or converts not gentiles ;

so answer my quotes ; Ac 10:1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment.
Ac 10:2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.
Ac 10:3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”
Ac 10:4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.

can you guys not read what kind of man Cornelius was ? yes he was a gentile but a converted one ;if not then why did he was a God fearing man of the true God ? tell me

[kerwin]

Terraricca,

I do not know who has taught you otherwise but there is one gospel for both the Jews and the Gentiles.

Acts 10:44-48New English Translation (NET Bible)
The Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were greatly astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “No one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 So he gave orders to have them baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for several days.

Peter is the one who said “No one can withhold the water for these people [Gentiles] to be baptized. In the next sentence we are told they were baptized in the name of Jesus. It is implied they were not baptized in the name of Jesus when they received the Holy Spirit as the 120 disciples did but only when Peter stated who can deny them water to be baptized.

Whoever taught you that the apostles ran hot and cold baptizing one Gentile but not another does not understand Scripture or they would not add to it.

[kerwin]

Terrarica,

Cornelius was a God fearing man before he became a student-adherent of Christ as were Peter, Nathanael, and many more.

Apollos is an example of a God fearing man, though he is a Jew.

Acts 18:24-26New English Translation (NET Bible)
Apollos Begins His Ministry

24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, arrived in Ephesus. He was an eloquent speaker, well-versed in the scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and with great enthusiasm he spoke and taught accurately the facts about Jesus, although he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak out fearlessly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained the way of God to him more accurately.

[terraricca]

K

³ So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
⁴ Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” ⁵ On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. ⁶ When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. ⁷ There were about twelve men in all.

 

so they where all baptized again in water but this time in the name of Jesus ;is this what you are telling me ? yes or no

 

but none of them received the holy spirit after that baptism that you claim only after Paul lay his hands on them  ,why is that ?

in the case of Cornelius it came before he was even baptized him and his household why “?

 

why is it that the word “believe” comes before baptism  do you know ?

 

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