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Hi ED,
My opinion yes.
Why do you have doubts?
Hi Nick,
Because you have not been very clear as to what you mean.
That is why I started this thread, to find out for sure._______________
God bless
Ed JMiia,
The thief on the cross is a poor example because he died under the Law and not under grace. Like the prophets and others of old he would not be made perfect apart from those that obey the gospel. (Hebrews 11:40)
In short those that are not under grace are not judge as if they were under grace but each is judged according what they know. That is why the servant who disobeyed but did not know they were disobeying received fewer stripes that the one that knew and yet chose to disobey.
Hi Kerwin. Yes still the thief who died under the law was given paradise under grace.
The common argument that the thief was unbaptized has no basis.
How many of the baptized have later sinned, even if obliviously, as they grew. What is the difference in thieving and, say, anger or coveting. If we stumble in one part of the law, we are guilty of all, (James 2.10). When people argue that the thief was unbaptized and still attained Paradise – their argument is groundless!
Hi Miia,
Where are the baptised promised PARADISE?
Are the mansions of Christ paradise or is that from the world?
Hi Nick
I see we’re starting to get a little off topic. But since
you mention it, do you know what “mansions” mean?_______________
God bless
Ed JMiia,
Hi Kerwin. Yes still the thief who died under the law was given paradise under grace.
He did not die under grace because he died under the Law. Paul uses grace in the same sense of the new covenant in Romans 6:14.
The common argument that the thief was unbaptized has no basis.
This reveals a lack of understanding of the message of salvation. The disciples of John who previously were immersed by John were re-immersed in water by Paul because they had not received the Spirit. At most the thief might have been immersed previously to dying on the cross.
Abraham obtained paradise as did the prophets and others of old and many others. If that was all it is about then Jesus died in vain.
Hi Nick,
Yes, it can mean those things, but it doesn’t.
What it means is “a resting place”, it’s a reference
to our resting place in the spirit – via God’s HolySpirit.“I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith YHVH;
and I will heal him. But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters
cast up mire and dirt. There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.” (Isa 57:19-21)But for the righteous (our resting place is in the spirit) …
“Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth,
give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have
heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you.” (John 14:27-28)Jesus came again with the “Spirit of[color=white].[/color] God” on “Pentecost” as he had promised.
(references: John 14:23, Hebrews 9:28, Isaiah 64:4-5, 2Corinthians 5:16)_______________
God bless
Ed JBut the “waters” Jesus offer is not physical, he baptizes us
with the “Spirit of[color=white].[/color] God”, which purifies us to the saving of our soul.Ed,
But the “waters” Jesus offer is not physical, he baptizes us
with the “Spirit of. God”, which purifies us to the saving of our soul.A red herring.
The point is that Peter preached a water immersion as part of the gospel whether he preached to Jews or Gentiles. Some disagree with his preaching when it is not part of the gospel.
Hi KW,
The brothers, in obedience to Jesus, offer water baptism.
Then Jesus may graciously share the Spirit with them
hi
free dictionary ;baptism
1. To admit into Christianity by means of baptism.(this is a false teaching pagan)
2.
a. To cleanse or purify.(this is the right meaning for this is a practice that all believers did and have to do according to the scriptures )
b. To initiate.(this is also a true meaning for all believers initiate themselves with the scriptures to be familiar with them and the wisdom of God )think in the spirit not in the flesh
Hi Nick,
Last year after I promised you I would seek to be “water baptized”,
I asked three different Pastors of Churches in my area
(as I live in the buckle of the USA bible belt)One was Pentecostal, another Free will Baptist, another was non-denominational. All three
wanted conditions attached. Like Kerwin’s doctrinal beliefs criteria list, except different than his.
Or to be understood that the water baptism meant baptizing me into their religion. UNACCEPTABLE!One day when I went up to the senior center, it was made known to me
that one was the Methodist Preacher in town. I asked him, and he agreed.
But I did not go to his Church to take him up on the offer, instead I prayed.It is good to hear you say that the Methodist preacher,
the Methodist Church, and an inside baptismal tank
would constitute as a valid “water baptism”…to be continued
Hi Nick,
At that point I had not found out what you thought a valid water baptism was. So I had decided…
There’s another Church in my town called “Church of Christ”. I don’t know if you
heard of them or not, but they also believe that water baptism is necessary
for salvation. I had decided earlier to give them the first right of refusal.Well as God’s providence always works out. One day (about three weeks ago)
I was up at the senior center. “Joe Foster”, who doesn’t even go to their Church,
invited me to go with him to the “Church of Christ” for vacation bible study that day.Without going into too much detail, The so-called mentally ill people are touching the spirit world.
He’s a little out there and He had acted up earlier that week disturbing others. Well two days earlier he
was blurting out he was my leader. I know how God works, so I decided to go to ask to be water baptized.…to be continued
Hi Miia,
Where are the baptised promised PARADISE?
Are the mansions of Christ paradise or is that from the world?
Hi Nick.
Are you emphasizing the word baptized or the word paradise? If paradise, Jesus says ‘Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.’ The word paradise/ paradeisos is only used two other times in the NT.Revelation 2:7.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’
and 2 Corinthians 12:4.
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
So, if the thief on the cross is told he will be with Jesus in paradise, and if the conquerors are granted to eat of the tree of life which is in paradise, and if a man was caught UP (either in the body or out of the body) to paradise, then it is UP in heaven.
“From the world”? I initially learned my beliefs through the spirit and study.
the thief might have been immersed previously to dying on the cross.
Hi Kerwin. The anti-baptism argument which relies solely on the thief on the cross scripture is a weak one, as the thief could easily have been baptized.
Assuming one is unbaptized because he is a thief shows a misunderstanding of the baptized, and God’s forgiveness, (I think you mentioned that earlier). God is a forgiving Father, and we all make mistakes when we are born again and learn to walk. Too many other scriptures cancel out the blind anti-baptism argument.Miia,
The thief was not immersed in the Holy Spirit and fire because no one but Jesus was immersed in the Holy Spirit and power before Jesus sacrificed himself and was resurrected with power of the Holy Spirit and ascended to heaven to mediate the new covenant.
King Saul received the Holy Spirit and prophesied with the prophets but was not baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire.
Abraham also went to paradise but he looked ahead to the day of Christ as something superior was given to believers of that day, a thing Abraham and humans of God have always desired for themselves. Paradise is also called the Bosom of Abraham.
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