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Hi Miia,
Thank you! Yes, you have given me
precisely the kind of response
that answers my question!______________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed, OK (:
Hi Marty,
If someone did not have the opportunity to be baptized prior to his death after believing with a repentant heart, he would be saved.
Water baptism does not save anyone.Are you referring to those of the first or second covenant? Where does it say that water baptism does not save anyone?
Scripture says that water baptism now saves us. And, it is a commandment of Christ.However, I do agree with this: “There are exceptions to water baptism. It is possible to be saved through “baptism of blood”, (martyrdom for Christ), or through “baptism of desire”, that is, an explicit or even implicit desire for baptism.”
The Shepherd, which was once canon, said in 80AD, ‘I have heard, sir… that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly – for so it is’
Apparently, water baptism was such a priority to the earliest church that none thought to dispute it, save a woman who entered the scene around 200ad.
“A viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism, which is quite in accordance with nature – for vipers and asps do live in arid and waterless places, but we, little fishes after the example of our Great Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes — by taking them away from the water.”(Tertullian, 203ad).
There is no need to question the importance of water baptism. “Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?” (Isaiah 45:9)
terraricca,
kw
terrarica,
None of those passages say that receiving then Holy Spirit means you are baptized in Jesus and one even says the Holy Spirit landed on Jesus himself.
you right and thanks for your time ,
My point that the idea is believed by some to be implied in Scripture.
The argument for it can only be found in John the Baptist’s words that after him will come one who will immerse in the Holy Spirit and fire.
Therefore some assume the mention of someone receiving the Holy Spirit after Jesus died and resurrected means that the person was immersed in it. That is not a safe assumption since many in the OT received the Holy Spirit but not in its role as counselor.
Hi Nick,
Would the use of a baptismal tank inside a Church building count for a valid water baptism?
Hi Ed,
Hebrews says
“..bodies washed in clean water..”
Hi Nick,
So is that a “Yes” as well?
Hi Mia:
What I mean by my statement “that water baptism does not save anyone” is that one is baptized when one believes with a repentant heart. It is your faith that saves you. It is because you believe with a repentant heart that you are baptized. If you were baptized in water without faith or repentance, that water baptism did not signify what it was intended to signify.
The thief on the cross to whom Jesus spoke saying to him “today you shall be with me in paradise” was not baptized in water.
When I was first saved, I was under the impression that unless a person was baptized in water he could not be saved based on the scripture 1 Peter 3:21, and when a person was on their death bed, I would witness them and then I thought that I had to get them baptized right away in case they passed away, but through various personal experiences God has shown me that in such a situation, someone would just have to asked God to forgive them if they truly believed with a repentant heart and they died without having been baptized in water.
As I stated, all believers should be baptized in water. It is a work of obedience to God, and shows that one has believed and has repented. Faith without works is dead. Water baptism symbolizes our union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.
Love in Christ,
MartyTerraricca,
kw
the billions of people that have been baptised in water never got it either
What is “it”?
942767,
Let God be concerned about those that die before they receive the Advocate as he considers aggravating and mitigating circumstances. He is the judge not us. Trust that he is both just and merciful and so anyone that can be saved will be saved.
Hi Nick,
So a “water baptism” performed by a Methodist Preacher, inside
the Methodist Church, inside the Churches baptismal tank,
would constitute as *a valid water baptism, correct?*if the Preacher says in Jesus name of course
Please answer
Ed,
The word baptism is now in contention since individuals have misused it or one of its ancestors for centuries. The Jews have practiced full immersion in living water since before the time of Christ and all the examples in Scripture seem to include places where the water flowed freely naturally. Some are indeterminate. John the Baptist had his own variant that the Eleven also appear to employ.
The Methodist preach a false gospel so even should they immerse in water as the Apostles did the individual would be following that gospel and not the gospel that Peter preached at Pentecost. \
Here is a question I do not know the answer to.
If a man knows the true gospel and follows it does the fact that the one immersing him is a heretic mean the immersion is invalid because Jesus never grants authority to baptize to heretics?
The only examples from Scripture is true believers doing the immersion.
What I mean by my statement “that water baptism does not save anyone” is that one is baptized when one believes with a repentant heart. It is your faith that saves you. It is because you believe with a repentant heart that you are baptized. If you were baptized in water without faith or repentance, that water baptism did not signify what it was intended to signify.
Marty, couldn’t agree more. However, you needed to emphasise your intended meaning or it is misunderstood (:
The thief on the cross to whom Jesus spoke saying to him “today you shall be with me in paradise” was not baptized in water.
Do not assume that a thief has not been baptised and cannot receive forgivness. It does not say the thief was unbaptised.
When I was first saved, I was under the impression that unless a person was baptized in water he could not be saved based on the scripture 1 Peter 3:21, and when a person was on their death bed, I would witness them and then I thought that I had to get them baptized right away in case they passed away, but through various personal experiences God has shown me that in such a situation, someone would just have to asked God to forgive them if they truly believed with a repentant heart and they died without having been baptized in water.
So, similar to this quote?
“There are exceptions to water baptism. It is possible to be saved through “baptism of blood”, (martyrdom for Christ), or through “baptism of desire”, that is, an explicit or even implicit desire for baptism.”
As I stated, all believers should be baptized in water. It is a work of obedience to God, and shows that one has believed and has repented. Faith without works is dead. Water baptism symbolizes our union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection.
Yes, agree.
kw
kw
the billions of people that have been baptised in water never got it either
What is “it”?the holy spirit of truth ,they never got it
Terrarica,
So you do not believe?
It is clear since you are unable to explain how what you believe is supported by Scripture.
That makes it clear your teaching is not based on Scripture.
Most likely you were taught the doctrine by men who misinterpreted certain passages to support it and you simply forgot their argument but remember their conclusions.
You are accusing the Eleven of practicing a false teaching by immersing believers in water. If the Eleven are heretics then Christianity is a false religion and you claim to believe in Christ in vain. If you believe Scripture then you believe that Peter preached water baptism and other things to both the Jews and the Gentiles.
KW
It is clear since you are unable to explain how what you believe is supported by Scripture.
That makes it clear your teaching is not based on Scripture.
Most likely you were taught the doctrine by men who misinterpreted certain passages to support it and you simply forgot their argument but remember their conclusions.
You are accusing the Eleven of practicing a false teaching by immersing believers in water. If the Eleven are heretics then Christianity is a false religion and you claim to believe in Christ in vain. If you believe Scripture then you believe that Peter preached water baptism and other things to both the Jews and the Gentiles.
WHAT ????????????????????????????????????????????
Miia,
The thief on the cross is a poor example because he died under the Law and not under grace. Like the prophets and others of old he would not be made perfect apart from those that obey the gospel. (Hebrews 11:40)
In short those that are not under grace are not judge as if they were under grace but each is judged according what they know. That is why the servant who disobeyed but did not know they were disobeying received fewer stripes that the one that knew and yet chose to disobey.
Terrarica,
Your lack of belief in what Scripture states reveals things about you.
Acts 2:38New English Translation (NET Bible)
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
These are Peter’s words as he speaks the gospel. He tells them be baptized and the result of it is they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
You on the other hand claim that it is not necessary to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and that claim implies Peter is a false preacher.
Either Peter is right and you are wrong and Christianity is true or you are right and he is wrong and Christianity is false.
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