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Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 15 2011,20:26) Hi Ed,
I have reconsidered and have decided that born of water doesn't refer to physical birth. Firstly because it's silly. If i took it took to be accurate it would be like you asking me directions to the post office and me saying first you have to be physically born for me to tell you. I am sure Jesus could be sarcastic, but, in this particular instance i don't think he is. Secondly there is alot of 'water talk' in John like John 7:38 where Jesus says he is the living water. Water is a source of cleansing and life naturally and used as a spiritual metaphor it describes to a degree what the activity is of the Holy Spirit that Jesus himself baptizes with. Thirdly the breaking of water is a bloody affair not a waterly affair. Jesus is talking to a teacher of the Judaic Law. There is alot of cleansing by water going on in the Judaic Law. So the cleansing and life-giving aspects of it would not be lost to him when Jesus said this to him
Greetings Wispring. Glad you're here!KJ
Marty said:
Quote Prior to Cornelius and his group receiving the Holy Ghost, the gospel was preached primarily to the Jews, and the procedure had been when they believed the gospel, they were baptized in water, and then they received the Holy Ghost. But Cornelius and his group received the Holy Ghost when they believed the gospel prior to being baptized in water.
Exactly! Cornelius and his house received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being baptized which indicates that baptism was no longer a requirement. Peter alowed Cornelius and his house to be baptized as a demonstration that all races of men had now been accepted into the covenant.Peter did not “command” them to be baptized. The Greek word is “protasso.” I have already indicated that it means “to prearrange in order.”
There were no more water baptisms after Cornelius and his household. Baptism was EXCLUSIVELY with the Spirit. In chapter 16 it simply says that the Cotinthians were “baptized” without any mention of water. Paul said nothing about water baptism in reference to them in his epistles. He said that they were baptized by “one Spirit.”
You keep evading the fact that after Peter baptized Cornelius he testified that he recalled the word of the Lord when He said, “John indeed baptized with water. But you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.“
Baptisms with the Spirit had occurred before Cornelius as you have testified. So why did Jesus' words have special meaning to Peter AFTERWARDS?
You still have not answered this question: Why is the bathing ritual still necessary if God has CLEANSED all races of men? I am growing older waiting for you to reply.
Marty cited Acts 10:37-43 and then said:
Quote And so, here we see that the commandment was to preach forgiveness and remission of sins in his name, and not in the Tri-une formula of Matthew 28:19.
How does Acts 10:37-43 prove that water baptism continued after Cornelius? Even your own commentary omits a reference to water baptism.
Quote And so, here we see that the commandment was to preach forgiveness and remission of sins in his name, and not in the Tri-une formula of Matthew 28:19.
Exactly! I have ALWAYS maintained that the apostles baptized not in the Tri-une name because Jesus NEVER commanded water baptism. He said, “make disciples of all nations baptizing them.” The word “baptizing” is a participle which modifies the action of the noun “make disciples.” To make disciples IS to baptize them into the Tri-une name. This has nothing to do with water or with Spirit baptism.Jack
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 15 2011,20:26) Hi Ed,
I have reconsidered and have decided that born of water doesn't refer to physical birth. Firstly because it's silly. If i took it took to be accurate it would be like you asking me directions to the post office and me saying first you have to be physically born for me to tell you. I am sure Jesus could be sarcastic, but, in this particular instance i don't think he is. Secondly there is alot of 'water talk' in John like John 7:38 where Jesus says he is the living water. Water is a source of cleansing and life naturally and used as a spiritual metaphor it describes to a degree what the activity is of the Holy Spirit that Jesus himself baptizes with. Thirdly the breaking of water is a bloody affair not a waterly affair. Jesus is talking to a teacher of the Judaic Law. There is alot of cleansing by water going on in the Judaic Law. So the cleansing and life-giving aspects of it would not be lost to him when Jesus said this to him
Hi Wispring,You would you concur (with me) then that the water of John 3:5
is really talking about the same water in Ephesians 5:26.That [YHVH] might sanctify and cleanse [the Church]
with the washing of water by the word. So that the things of God
might be known, by the Spirit of God [born] in him. (Ephesians 5:26 / 1Cor.2:11)Scripture always interprets Scripture
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing
of regeneration, and renewing of the HolySpirit.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 15 2011,20:38) Hi Ed,
I understand that baptism can be said to symbolise the death of the old person and the birth of the new person in Jesus Christ. Is this what you are talking about? Sorry for the two posts. I realized I hadn't talked to you about the 'death' bit until after i posted.May God keep you and yours in his eternal love.
Hi Wispring,YES! …you have put the pieces (that I gave you) together correctly!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 16 2011,02:08) Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 15 2011,20:26) Hi Ed,
I have reconsidered and have decided that born of water doesn't refer to physical birth. Firstly because it's silly. If i took it took to be accurate it would be like you asking me directions to the post office and me saying first you have to be physically born for me to tell you. I am sure Jesus could be sarcastic, but, in this particular instance i don't think he is. Secondly there is alot of 'water talk' in John like John 7:38 where Jesus says he is the living water. Water is a source of cleansing and life naturally and used as a spiritual metaphor it describes to a degree what the activity is of the Holy Spirit that Jesus himself baptizes with. Thirdly the breaking of water is a bloody affair not a waterly affair. Jesus is talking to a teacher of the Judaic Law. There is alot of cleansing by water going on in the Judaic Law. So the cleansing and life-giving aspects of it would not be lost to him when Jesus said this to him
Greetings Wispring. Glad you're here!KJ
Me too!Hi Jack:
You say:
Quote Peter did not “command” them to be baptized. The Greek word is “protasso.” I have already indicated that it means “to prearrange in order.” Where are you getting this from? That is not what Strong's concordance says about the word “forbid”.
Also, you are distorting what I have written. God's Word has not changed relative to water baptism. The church baptizes new believers in water, and so, either they or you are wrong regarding this.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Ed,
Quote You would you concur (with me) then that the water of John 3:5
is really talking about the same water in Ephesians 5:26.Perhaps, but, first read Genesis 1:1-3 and see if you think there might be a correlation to that.
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 16 2011,12:36) Hi Ed, Quote You would you concur (with me) then that the water of John 3:5
is really talking about the same water in Ephesians 5:26.Perhaps, but, first read Genesis 1:1-3 and see if you think there might be a correlation to that.
Hi Wispring,I believe those are different waters.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed
OK. I was just thinking that since it was describing the creation of the first Earth and Jesus is the creator of the second Earth type of idea they might correlate. Maybe i am reading to much into it.Quote
Jesus is the creator of the second Earth
Hi Wispring,Where do you get this idea? …YHVH is our Creator!
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this
cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Jn.12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father,
save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
OK. Maybe i didn't think that one through. I am talking about the Kingdom of God being created after Jesus's ressurection. My understanding is that Jesus is ruling in God's stead until he hands it back over to him so I actually am referring to this creation so to speak.Hi Wispring,
After “Pentecost” God began ruling in the hearts of believers (Click Here)
(the Kingdom of God came) with Jesus at God's right hand. (John 14:17)See John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man
love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him,
and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAll
my question is;did Noah was saved by the ark ,or by following of the word of God spooked to him,and put in practice by him??
and if you say by the word of God then we are also save by that same word that was spoken trough Christ and the apostles.
Pierre
Pierre,
Noah was saved from the Great Flood because he believed God and that faith bore the fruit of obedience to the word of God.
You wrote:
Quote Exactly! Cornelius and his house received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being baptized which indicates that baptism was no longer a requirement.
So according to you since the Holy Spirit in its role as the distributer of talents was received without the believer obeying the teaching to immerse themselves in water it follows that water is no longer necessary.
The opposing argument is that it does not follow that immersion in water is not necessary since being renewed in spirit it not about receiving the talents distributed by the Holy Spirit but rather it is about obtaining a new spirit created like God in true holiness and righteousness with the Spirit of God serving as the councilor of righteousness.
Jesus teaches that those who exhibit the talents of the Holy Spirit but do not bear the fruits of righteousness taught by the Holy Spirit will not enter the kingdom of heaven, Matthew 7:21-23.
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 16 2011,21:26) To Pierre, I believe what you just posted is as true as true gets.
Wispringwelcome to this site ,it is the best that there is ,in my opinion and experience.
and thank you for that statement and i agree with it .
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2011,22:31) Pierre, Noah was saved from the Great Flood because he believed God and that faith bore the fruit of obedience to the word of God.
Kerwinyes you right ,there is no difference today;
Mt 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’’”
Mt 13:23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Jn 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.Jn 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
Jn 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
Jn 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truthAc 13:49 The word of the Lord spread through the whole region
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2011,22:41) You wrote: Quote Exactly! Cornelius and his house received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being baptized which indicates that baptism was no longer a requirement.
So according to you since the Holy Spirit in its role as the distributer of talents was received without the believer obeying the teaching to immerse themselves in water it follows that water is no longer necessary.
The opposing argument is that it does not follow that immersion in water is not necessary since being renewed in spirit it not about receiving the talents distributed by the Holy Spirit but rather it is about obtaining a new spirit created like God in true holiness and righteousness with the Spirit of God serving as the councilor of righteousness.
Jesus teaches that those who exhibit the talents of the Holy Spirit but do not bear the fruits of righteousness taught by the Holy Spirit will not enter the kingdom of heaven, Matthew 7:21-23.
Kerwina faith without deeds is deadJames;2;26
Pierre
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