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Shall we examine what scripture and reasoning says about whether the Father is:
independent from the Son
or
interdependent with the Son
in order to be the one true God.
I hypothesize that the Father is interdependent with the Son in being the one true God, not independent from the Son in being the one true God.
As I understand it…if interdependent, then God is more than one person. If independent, then God is only one person.
Let’s reason together…
As I understand it…if interdependent, then God is more than one person.
Hi LU
God ( the Father) IS ONE PERSON
it does not matter whether you consider it to be interdependent on the Son or not.
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph.4:6)
The Son IS God in infinity (essence, nature…) BUT NOT IN PERSONALITY.
Only GOD THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN PERSON.
Hi Berean,
You: The Son IS God in infinity (essence, nature…) BUT NOT IN PERSONALITY.
Only GOD THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN PERSON.
Me: ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THE FATHER AS A PERSON IS
GOD IN FLESH!
Now read what Jesus Said:
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,
that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
John17:3 Now this is eternal life:
THAT THEY MAY KNOW THEE, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
ANSWER PLEASE:
Berean, HOW THEY MAY KNOW THAT THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST….
John17:10 And all my things (CARNAL AND HUMAN’S) are thine, and thine (SPIRITUAL AND GODLY )are mine;
AND I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.
GLORIFIED BOTH WITH THE HUMANLY AND THE GODLY ATTRIBUTES!
GODMAN and FATHER OF ALL THE FLESH/PHYSICAL ALL IN HIM
Jeremiah 32:26And the word of the Lord came to Jeremias, saying:
27 Behold I am the Lord the God of all flesh: shall anything be hard for me?
Berean: WHO IS THE GOD OF ALL FLESH?
Just to keep you in mind READ:
John17:2 and 17:1o again
Answer please:
ISN’T JESUS THE OWNER OF ALL FLESH/PHYSICAL CREATION, ALL IN HIM, CREATED ANEW BY HIS OWN BLOOD AND THE FATHER OF IT.
Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, (JESUS CHRIST) beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit (OF CHRIST) in the bond of peace. 4One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism. 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
DEFINITELY, IN US ALL JESUS CHRIST!
GOD THE FATHER INDWELL ONLY IN CHRIST
John17 21That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one:
23 I IN THEM and
THOU IN ME;
that they may be made PERFECT IN ONE:…..
AGAIN PERFECT IN ONE JESUS CHRIST! Well asserted by Jesus in
John4:34 Jesus saith to them: My meat is to do the will of him that sent me,
THAT I MAY PERFECT HIS WORK.
John 5:36But I have a greater testimony than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to perfect; the works themselves, which I do, give testimony of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And also in
Ephesians 4:12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Until we all meet into the unity of faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the age of the FULLNESS OF CHRIST;
Colossians 1:19 Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father,
that all fullness should dwell;
20And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven.
Ephesians 3:19 To know also THE CHARITY OF CHRIST, which surpasseth all knowledge,
that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God.
DEFINITELY IN CHRIST
John1:16 AND OF HIS FULLNESS
we all have received, and grace for grace.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
THAT THEY MAY KNOW THEE, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
One is the ONLY TRUE GOD
The other is JESUS CHRIST, the one whom the true God sent.
God and his Son.
Hi Proclaimer,
You: One is the ONLY TRUE GOD.
Me: AND WHO IS THIS
ONE TRUE GOD!
ON THIS PHYSICAL TANGIBLE PLANET, THE ONLY WAY FOR US PHYSICAL AND TANGIBLE ENTITIES THAT IN THE TRUTH ASSERT THAT SOMETHING IS
TRUE, IT MUST ALSO BE PHYSICAL AND TANGIBLE!
GOD IS NOT!
HE IS THE MOST MYSTERIOUS AND UNKNOWN STATE OF LOVE!
John 17:25 Just Father,
THE WORLD HATH NOT KNOWN THEE;
but I HAVE known thee:
and these have known that thou hast sent me.
1John1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have HEARD, which we have SEEN with our eyes, which we have LOOKED UPON, and OUR HANDS HAVE HANDLED of the word of life: 2For the life was MANIFESTED; and we have SEEN and do bear witness, and declare unto you the life eternal, which was with the Father, and
hath appeared to us:
OUR LORD PHYSICAL AND TANGIBLE GOD
JESUS CHRIST
THE TRUTH
John14:6 Jesus saith to him:
I am the way, and
the truth, and
the life.
No man cometh to the Father,
but by me.
NO JESUS NO FATHER, NO FATHER NO JESUS
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
OUR LORD PHYSICAL AND TANGIBLE GOD
JESUS CHRIST
Not God, but God’s Son.
The visible IMAGE of the invisible God.
This is what scripture teaches.
Believe or don’t believe.
Your choice.
Carmel…….Your problem is your not understanding that the word “CHRIST” right, it does not always mean a person but what the PERSON HAS OF GOD, GOD IS “IN” all who have his anointing Spirit, “IN” them. All true sons of God have that same anointing in them as Jesus did and does, but none of that makes us or Jesus a God.
GOD IS A Spirit, and being a Spirit can exist “IN” PEOPLE. We as BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF Jesus, all share the same Spirit of the Father , remember, “that God may be all and “IN” ALL.
WHER IT SAYS …….“till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the ‘knowledge” of the Son of God unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ” . That is saying that we are to become exactly like Jesus, by the exact same Anointing as he had, “by”, the exact same Spirit which was given him.
In that way God the Fathers “Will” will be “in” All and “THROUGH” all. JESUS IS A FELLOW HUMAN BEING, ALWAYS WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE. We are “all” one with Jesus and God the Father, in the anointing spirit?
YOUR “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION” doesnt work Carmel.
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel………gene
Proclaimer and Berean,
Did one person create the world alone or with another person?
Did one person save the world alone or with another person?
Is one person governing the world alone in this age or with another person?
Proclaimer:
You said:
Not God, but God’s Son.
Who is the God that inherits the nations in Psalms 82:8?
Psalms 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For thou shalt inherit all the nations.
Hi LU
You
Did one person create the world alone or with another person?
Did one person save the world alone or with another person?
Is one person governing the world alone in this age or with another person?
Me
The Father and the Son HAVE WORKED AND WORK TOGETHER.
BUT THAT DOES NOT REMOVE THAT THE FATHER ONLY IS THE ONE TRUE GOD. ALL HONORS GO TO HIM FIRST.Even if we can attribute the term “GOD” to the SON as in Hebrews 1, THE TRUTH REMAINS THAT ONLY GOD THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD WHO IS THE ORIGIN OF EVERYTHING (INCLUDING THE SON).
Hi Proclaimer,
OUR LORD PHYSICAL AND TANGIBLE GOD
JESUS CHRIST
You: Not God, but God’s Son.
The visible IMAGE of the invisible God.
This is what scripture teaches.
Believe or don’t believe.
Your choice.
ME: my choice is the truth.
JESUS IS TRUTH
Produce scripture where God the Father Himself proclaim that
HE IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD! OR
HE IS THE TRUTH!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Produce scripture where God the Father Himself proclaim that
HE IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD! OR
HE IS THE TRUTH!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Gene,
You: GOD IS A Spirit, and being a Spirit can exist “IN” PEOPLE.
Me: NEVER GOD DIRECTLY CAN ABIDE IN PEOPLE!
THE FACT THAT THERE’S ONLY ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN
OUR (human) Lord God JESUS CHRIST.
Read and accept the TRUTH!
John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one:
23I in them,
and thou in me;
that they may be made perfect in one:….
DEFINITELY IN JESUS CHRIST,
ON THIS PLANET COUNTS ONLY WHAT IS PHYSICAL AND TANGIBLE AS
THE TRUTH!
GOD, THE FATHER IS SPIRIT NEITHER PHYSICAL NOR TANGIBLE!
AS A SPIRIT AND WITHOUT JESUS, GOD THE FATHER IS NOT THE TRUE GOD ON THIS PLANET.
GOD THE FATHER IS NOT IN THE POSITION TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF
THE TRUE GOD AS LONG AS SATAN IS STILL ON EARTH.
SATAN BEFORE JESUS REDEMPTION CONSIDERED HIMSELF THE SOVEREIGN SPIRIT ON THIS PLANET.
JESUS CHRIST ESTABLISHED GOD THE FATHER ON EARTH AS
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Berean,
You said:
The Father and the Son HAVE WORKED AND WORK TOGETHER.
BUT THAT DOES NOT REMOVE THAT THE FATHER ONLY IS THE ONE TRUE GOD. ALL HONORS GO TO HIM FIRST.The question is in the OP as to whether or not the Father does the God stuff interdependently with the Son or independently of the Son. You admit that they work together. That is in favor of the Father’s interdependency with the Son, not independency from the Son.
The big question is… could the Father have done all the God stuff by himself without His Son but just chose to let His Son help?
In my understanding, one person among nothing created would be God of nothing. The Son was necessary to beget in order to create.
Which statement do you agree with:
The Son was unnecessary in order to create the universe.
or
The Son was necessary in order to create the universe.
Oh and btw, we are to give the Son honor just as we honor the Father.
John 5:22-23 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
ALL HONOR GOES TO THEM.
Hi LU
It all comes down to two main things:
1) the exemplary Father-Son relationship
2) the free choice given to the creatures of God.God needed a Son in HIS IMAGE so that the FATHER-SON relationship would first be an example for those around them who are the angels.
On the other hand, the objective of God being to create beings
intelligent endowed with free will, He had to anticipate a possible rebellion against his kingdom, and have a solution to remedy the problem. And we know that the Son offered himself from the foundation of the world to be the remedy, the lamb that takes away the sins of the world.
And so the Father needed His Son to defend His honor and to bring about the salvation of mankind.
This is why the Son was involved in the creation of the universe, and he will also be involved in the judgment.Are we progressing a little or not…?
god blessIf the Father had remained without a Son in his image like HIM, He would have had to create beings without free will, a bit like robots, so as not to risk a rebellion against his kingdom. EVERYTHING IS LINKED TO FREE WILL.
God bless
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