Inference

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Yes it would sound like that to you.

But you are an intellectual.
Be transformed in the spirit of your mind

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 15 2010,15:58)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2010,01:30) hi KW, Meditation is not analysis. I wanded to make sure I was correct before I wrote so I looked in the Merriam-Webstrer online dictionary for the definition of metitate and was told the synomyn is ponder which sounds a lot like analize to me.  In addition under the entry for ponder I was told that “mediate implies a definite focussing of ones thoughts on something in order to understand it deeply.”  Again that sounds like analize.   Analize by the way means to determine the nature and relationship of the parts by seperating the whole into its component parts according to the same dictionary.  In other words it is probably merely a particular strategy of meditation. I not possitive as I am not an expert at the English language but that sounds correct given the information availiable to me.

KW

meditation is good providing it is done in God and Christ spirit,
many religion practice meditation but it is of men and corruption as a result,
again true meditation are not made to allow men more knowledge,but rather communicate with him and receive true spiritual knowledge direct from the spirit of Christ.

truth of God is the water of live.

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

I agree with what you wrote though perhaps there are nuances that we disagree on.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 15 2010,17:34)

Pierre, I agree with what you wrote though perhaps there are nuances that we disagree on.

KW

what nuances?

Pierre

[kerwin]

I don't know and there may not be any but they are known to come up at later dates so I figured I better cover them just in case.

[barley]

Quote (Tim2 @ April 12 2007,08:59)

1.  Matthew 28:19. 2.  John 1:1 3.  False Jesus is the wisdom and power of God.  1 Corinthians 1:24. There is nothing wrong with a true inference.  The Bible was written to be understood.  That its truth can be restated using other words is evident from the New Testament quotation of the Old Testament, where not only another language was used, but the original language was not quoted word for word. Tim

What is the wisdom of God?

Why is Jesus Christ the wisdom of God?

Is it wise to do what God's word teaches us to do?  Yes, of course.

Does God want us to be wise concerning salvation?  II Timothy 3:15
Yes, we want total wholeness in our lives.  We want to take of God's wisdom and make it our own.  We want live our lives according to the wisdom of God.

If I so discipline myself in one category of God's word that God's wisdom is now who I am in that category is that wise? Yes. Is God's wisdom now my wisdom in that category?  Yes.  Could it be said that in that category when you see me do these things that you see God's wisdom?  Yes.

Another angle,  “Wisdom is justified by her children.”  That is, the results of wisdom is the proof of the wisdom used.  
Is is wise to take out the garbage?  Yes, the room is cleaner and fresher.  The results show the goodness of the wisdom applied.

Was is wise for God to send His son so that we could get to know God better?  yes, it was.  Is it wise for me to live according to scripture so that others can get to know God better?  Yes, indeed.  Am I applying God's wisdom in my life when I do these things?  Yes.  

Is Jesus Christ the wisdom of God?  Indeed he is.

[barley]

Quote (Not3in1 @ April 14 2007,17:20)

Wow, Tim, I didn't know this about you.  Thank you for sharing this with me.  You know, it was only about 3 1/2 years ago that I was a dedicated Trinitarian.  I was in ministry (up to my eyeballs, really).  And then I took some time off to study.  I found that the OT does tell of a son who is coming…..  If you are interested, I could share with you some pretty significant passages in Isaiah that point towards Jesus.  In fact, a lot of NT writers quoted the OT as confirmation that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. God is alone in the OT.  But the plan he had was to have a Son.  That Son is Jesus.  Simply logic (which is a gift from God), tells you that when you have a son, that boy is a part of you and your wife.  So, Jesus is not God himself, but he is a part of God.  I really feel strongly that this is what the scriptures clearly teach.  Without inference……this is what they teach. We can easily point to Jesus' conception.  We can easily point to his birth.  We can easily point to the fact that he is the only begotten of God.  Again, not to sound like a broken record, but we can easily point to the fact that his is the Son of God, and of Mary. We cannot easily say that he is God.  Some scriptures that seem to clearly say that Jesus is God (in the NIV), do not clearly say that Jesus is God in other translations.  This is confusing, isn't it?  It should be confusing.  Because if it was that “clear” then there should be no changes in translation.  But there are changes in translations.   That's why I like what you are trying to do on a couple boards — you are trying to narrow all of our belief systems in one spot.  I'd also like to look at these Trinity verses.  Let's get them all out and look at them one by one.  You see, I've done this already.  There are more verses that point to God being One (which is true to the OT), and that Jesus is his Son (verses that Jesus is God). You and I are kind of an odd pair.  You disbelieved the Trinity and then believed it again.  And I'm the opposite.  I could never go back to a God that I cannot explain to another God-hungry soul.  No one I have talked with over the years fully understands the Trinity.  We always end the conversation with, “It's a mystery and I accept it by faith.”  Well, Tim, I really want to know my God.  I want to have an intimate relationship with him.  How can I have an intimate relationship with anyone who remains, for the most part, a mystery?  Well, I'm rambling…..I'm a chick    Anyway, nice to chat with you.  Look forward to learning from you.

I like your posting.  I agree with you.  Jesus Christ made it clear that he came to make his Father known and was surprised when Philip said, Shew us the Father.   Jesus Christ was showing the Father all along.  He made clear to understand who God is and what He is all about.  God is no mystery to those who recognize that God is one and that Jesus Christ is not God, but as you know the son of God and of Mary, heir to the throne of David.  

I would find it interesting to read of your insights in OT scripture regarding JC.  

Well anyway, great post.

[barley]

Quote (epistemaniac @ April 16 2007,14:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2007,15:17) Hi Tim2, It is impossible to have a relationship with a trinity. Lk 15 “20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. “ This is the loving Father God. Abba Father. I would like to submit the proposition that the proposition “it's impossible to have a relationship with the Trinity” is nothing more than an inference, has no direct biblical support, and therefore should be dismissed as unbiblical, the result of man's carnal reasoning…..

Since there is no trinity except in pagan religions, it is impossible to have a relationship with a Biblical trinity.

[barley]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2007,16:32)

Just giving me the definition for “one” proves nothing….one what? We are left to infer, are we not? Where is it written that “God is one individual [person]”?

God is a spirit. Not, God is spirits. John 4:24

Where do you get the idea that God is a person? God is not a person. God is spirit.

[barley]

Quote (barley @ June 24 2010,01:13)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2007,16:32) Just giving me the definition for “one” proves nothing….one what? We are left to infer, are we not? Where is it written that “God is one individual [person]”? God is a spirit.  Not, God is spirits.  John 4:24 Where do you get the idea that God is a person?  God is not a person.  God is spirit.

Of course God is a person, there is a being, a who, a personality, an underlying character to God. God's person is spiritual in nature, not fleshy. God is not a people.

[barley]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2007,17:03)

I'll ask again. NH, Can you give us your understanding of John 1:1c “….and the Word was God” What do you suppose John meant by this statement?

Perhaps we should get back to basics here.

What is the basic meaning of the word, logos?

Logos means message or communication or the thoughts or meaning behind the words used.

There is another word for words in the Greek, rhema, which emphasizes the actual words used rather than the total message intended to be conveyed.

With this in mind, how is it that you communicate with people on this website?  Is it with words?  You desire to communicate a word, a logos, by use of carefully chosen words, rhema.  Would you be  more effective if you could communicate to us in person?  Possibly.  We could see your facial expressions, you posture, your presence of mind, a lot more than just words.  

Your words are you.  Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.  You say what you say or don't say because your words are you.

Does God use words to communicate?  Yes, He does.  See scripture.  Genesis 1:1 – Revelation 22:21.  

Are the rhema that God chose to use useful to communicate himself to mankind?  Yes , of course.

Are there other ways besides rhema, carefully chosen rhema, to communicate God's heart to us?  Absolutely.

Burning bush, angels, men and women of God, writing on wall, signs, miracles, and wonders, healings.  Even the orderliness of God's creation communicates God to us.

Can you communicate God to us by your example of living God's word?  Of course.

Have you ever heard the saying, “I would rather see a sermon than hear one?”  

As you do God's word are you showing the Father to those who see you?  Yes you are.

When you do the will of God are you taking the black words on a white page and making them visible in the real world by your actions?

Of course you are.

When you do the will of God with your flesh are you communicating God's word, his logos, to others?  Yes , you are.

Hmmm.  

Did Moses communicate God's will to Israel by other means than words?  Yes, Moses was a doer of the word of God.  Moses communicated the word of God by his lifestyle.  People could see Moses flesh in action, thus they got to know God better.

God had a plan to make Himself known perfectly clearly, and to redeem mankind, and a lot of other things in one stroke,  one rock.  The plan was Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ chose to be one with the Father.  He always did His Father's will because he chose to and followed through.  He emptied himself of his own will and filled himself with the will of the Father.

He perfectly communicated God's character, his message, his heart's desire to us, his logos to us.  

Logos is used about 216 times in the NT.  As you go through them you will see that it means a message, a communication, the thought behind the words used.  Except it seems in John 1, where it mysteriously changes to mean a person.  Why is that?  Seems odd.  No, it is not odd. It is clear that the meaning in John 1 should be the same meaning as  the other 210+ uses elsewhere.  

The
message
of
God
became
flesh.

God gave us a sermon we could see and thus understand far more clearly than words alone.  That was part of His plan from the beginning.

God is emphasizing the importance of what is written.

What is written is so important that God sent His son to make it clear for us.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (barley @ June 24 2010,00:49)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 12 2007,08:59) 1.  Matthew 28:19. 2.  John 1:1 3.  False Jesus is the wisdom and power of God.  1 Corinthians 1:24. There is nothing wrong with a true inference.  The Bible was written to be understood.  That its truth can be restated using other words is evident from the New Testament quotation of the Old Testament, where not only another language was used, but the original language was not quoted word for word. Tim What is the wisdom of God? Why is Jesus Christ the wisdom of God? Is it wise to do what God's word teaches us to do?  Yes, of course. Does God want us to be wise concerning salvation?  II Timothy 3:15 Yes, we want total wholeness in our lives.  We want to take of God's wisdom and make it our own.  We want live our lives according to the wisdom of God. If I so discipline myself in one category of God's word that God's wisdom is now who I am in that category is that wise? Yes. Is God's wisdom now my wisdom in that category?  Yes.  Could it be said that in that category when you see me do these things that you see God's wisdom?  Yes. Another angle,  “Wisdom is justified by her children.”  That is, the results of wisdom is the proof of the wisdom used.   Is is wise to take out the garbage?  Yes, the room is cleaner and fresher.  The results show the goodness of the wisdom applied. Was is wise for God to send His son so that we could get to know God better?  yes, it was.  Is it wise for me to live according to scripture so that others can get to know God better?  Yes, indeed.  Am I applying God's wisdom in my life when I do these things?  Yes.   Is Jesus Christ the wisdom of God?  Indeed he is.

Barley…………..Good post brother. I see it that way also.

peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

[barley]

Quote (Tim2 @ April 22 2007,16:16)

Nick, Saying that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God are three different statements.  Each one is explicitly taught in Scripture.  This isn't putting anything together.  It's just saying what Scripture says. By your own standards you can only believe one statement in the Bible, because if you believe more than one Scriptural statement, then you're putting different Scriptures together.   Tim

Don't forget to add from Psalm 18:1-2, that

God is

a rock,
a fortress,
a deliverer,
a buckler,
a horn,
a high tower
etc.

If God is a son, then God is a rock as well,  that makes four
then God is a fortress, that makes five,
then God is a deliverer, that makes six
then God is a buckler, that makes seven.
God is a healer Psalm 103:3.  The makes eight.

How many more you want to add.  We have an octinity so far.  You trinitarians are 260% off. And we just got started.

Is this how you suggest we utilize scripture to build truth then Nick is absolutely right.  

We must look at scripture as it fits with itself on the same topic.  If we are to increase our understanding of that topic.  

For instance, Jesus Christ was born of a woman, genetically he is human.  Since God was his Father and everything is after its kind, Jesus Christ had to have had attributes of his Father. Genesis 1.  We cannot conclude that Jesus is God, because God and humans are not the same kind.  God and a woman cannot cohabitate and produce offspring.  No more than an alligator and a cat can produce a catagator or an allicat.  How did God, who is spirit, impregnate the egg within a woman with a human child?

God and Mary did not produce a man-God or some fully man/fully God aberration, oops, I meant inference.
 
Since God is able to  make children of Abraham out of rocks, I does not seem too far out of reach that He would be able to provide seed that would impregnate the egg in Mary's womb that would fit within the law of everything after its own kind.   God is spirit. God is not human.

God had to stay within his own laws He set up including the one about everthing after its kind.  If God was going to have a son, He had to chose whether it would be a created son who is spirit, since God is spirit, or  a son of a lower “species”  Mankind's need was the deciding factor.  John 3:16,  God chose to have a son that is human so mankind could be redeemed.  That is love.

Call that inference if you want.  It is not.  

How many wise men showed up at the stable where the manger was?

What does the scripture say?  How many?

Scripture does not say.  Therefore we do not know.

To suggest three is inference.  Does three gifts absolutely dictate that there were three givers?  No,  real life indicates that many people could contribute to purchase one or three expensive gifts for an individual.  

We are not interested in tradition, but in truth.

Where did the wise men go?  The went to a house, not a stable.

Nativity scenes infer that three wise men showed up at the manger.

Does anyone out there know the difference between a house and a stable?  I bet Nick and a few others do.

Is there a difference between a  babe in a manger and a young child in a house?

Yes there is, and I'll bet Nick and a few others know the difference.

I apologize if I seem to be a little off subject here, but I think the examples that I used illustrate Nick's point very well.

We must concern ourselves with what is written.  Once we have what is written, then we can build, here a little, there a little.

[barley]

Quote (charity @ April 21 2007,17:13)

Rev 5:3  And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. Rev 5:4  And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

No man was found. that does not mean that there was no man to be found. From John's perspective, no man was found. The elders know of a man,….

[barley]

Quote (Tim2 @ April 22 2007,05:04)

Proof that the Spirit is a person:  John 14:16.  The Spirit is called Parakletos, which is by definition a person, a comforter or helper;  as opposed to paraklesis, which means comfort or consolation, and is by definition impersonal.

could you define comforter or helper more clearly? Does a fire provide comfort for someone who is cold? Does scripture provide comfort to those who have lost someone? I Thessalonians 4:18. Does a blanket provide comfort? Does a hammer help me to drive nails?

Person or helper or comforter. Not person who is a helper and comforter. The spirit of (or from) God that is in me comforts me because I know that I am a son of God and an heir of God and a joint heir with Christ. Romans 8:11-17 I am comforted because I know that I will be glorified together with him.

This

[barley]

Quote (Tim2 @ April 22 2007,16:16)

Nick, Saying that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God are three different statements.  Each one is explicitly taught in Scripture.  This isn't putting anything together.  It's just saying what Scripture says. By your own standards you can only believe one statement in the Bible, because if you believe more than one Scriptural statement, then you're putting different Scriptures together.   Tim

Nowhere does it say that the son is God.  At least not in the sense of saying that the son is The God.   Jesus Christ is a god in the same sense that Moses was a god to Pharoah and to  Aaron.  Moses acted on the behalf of and by commandment to represent God in the matter of leading the children of Israel.  People who were to represent God in the OT were called gods, because, God wanted them to have that title.

There is:

1.  The God, who is the author of the scriptures.

2.  There are people who in their responsibilities to God are given the title of god by God himself.  Jesus Christ is so called in Hebrews 1:8.  Jesus Christ does not sit in the throne of God because God occupies the throne of God.  God designated a different throne, a throne on the right hand of God for Jesus Christ to reign from.  This throne is the throne of David.  It is Jesus Christ who, of the lineage of David, occupies the throne of David forever.  This a very real possibility when Thomas said, My lord and my god.   Another possibility for the meaning is simply an exclamation of great joy and excitement at the thrill of seeing Jesus Christ alive.   No one ever shouts out, “My God, how awesome!” at some unexpected result.   Was Thomas talking to JC when he exclaimed that or was he giving God the glory for God having raised JC from the dead, as prophesied?  In a marriage situation, no man has ever exclaimed, “Oh, God” at a climactic moment.  Who is the husband talking to?  His wife?  Did that man mistake his wife for God?  I think not.  What do you think?  

3.  There are false gods, idols, etc. who we reject.  they are many  I Corinthians 8:5.  Are they gods, yes, God calls them gods.  If you don't like that take that up with God,  God calls them gods, even though they are false.  

Like wise with lords:

1.  The Lord God

2.  The lord Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ submitted himself to do the Father's will not his own.  

3.  Men who have earned the right to rule, ie, in service, over others by their adherence to godly living,.

4.  Abraham, whom Sarah called lord. which could easily fit into number 3.

5.  lords of dubious character.

God is holy and God is spirit,  considering all the names of God that God uses to describe some aspect of his “person”, his heart, his motivation, his will, his promises, would it be a surprise if God chose to add to that long list, the Holy Spirit, seeing that it does describe God.  Why make that name into another “person”.  If you do that with that name why not with all the other names of God.   I have heard that God uses about 250 different names for himself in scripture.   How about that?  A Twohundredfiftinity?

El, El Shaddai, Elohim, Jehovah, Adonai,  , etc. each with its own meaning and significance.

[barley]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 24 2007,15:43)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 24 2007,16:37) Quote (Cubes @ April 24 2007,12:22) It bears repeating, and to have scripture interpret scripture: Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GOD [is] one YHWH: Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.   By these scriptures we see that YHWH is One, GOD and Father of all.  We already know that it is written, he is the God and Father of Jesus too.  No inferences. Hi Cubes, There is more than meets the eye with Ephesians 4:6, aside from the very many verses attesting to Yeshua indwelling us by His Spirit, there is this verse: John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. Hmmm, looks like the “One God” indwelling us is a “we” and an “our”… How do you explain this Cubes? Is 1:18 Excellent point. Of course there is no answer for the Arian view. For as we know there is only One Spirit that we have been made to drink into, and scriptures teach that that Spirit is God. Yet we read it is Christ. Yet we read it is the comforter. Arianistic and Unitarians and Henotheist have a Bible with 66 books but use a lot of white out.

Do you really read it that way? Wow!

….and my Father will love him and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

What is your point?

This verse makes clear distinction between the son and the Father. love me, keep my words, the Father will love him… We…. We who? The Father and the son. Both, not two in one being, but two.

Why did the holy Ghost get left out?

[Arnold]

Quote (barley @ June 24 2010,02:50)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 22 2007,16:16) Nick, Saying that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God are three different statements.  Each one is explicitly taught in Scripture.  This isn't putting anything together.  It's just saying what Scripture says. By your own standards you can only believe one statement in the Bible, because if you believe more than one Scriptural statement, then you're putting different Scriptures together.   Tim Don't forget to add from Psalm 18:1-2, that God is a rock, a fortress, a deliverer, a buckler, a horn, a high tower etc. If God is a son, then God is a rock as well,  that makes four then God is a fortress, that makes five, then God is a deliverer, that makes six then God is a buckler, that makes seven. God is a healer Psalm 103:3.  The makes eight. How many more you want to add.  We have an octinity so far.  You trinitarians are 260% off. And we just got started. Is this how you suggest we utilize scripture to build truth then Nick is absolutely right.   We must look at scripture as it fits with itself on the same topic.  If we are to increase our understanding of that topic.   For instance, Jesus Christ was born of a woman, genetically he is human.  Since God was his Father and everything is after its kind, Jesus Christ had to have had attributes of his Father. Genesis 1.  We cannot conclude that Jesus is God, because God and humans are not the same kind.  God and a woman cannot cohabitate and produce offspring.  No more than an alligator and a cat can produce a catagator or an allicat.  How did God, who is spirit, impregnate the egg within a woman with a human child? God and Mary did not produce a man-God or some fully man/fully God aberration, oops, I meant inference.   Since God is able to  make children of Abraham out of rocks, I does not seem too far out of reach that He would be able to provide seed that would impregnate the egg in Mary's womb that would fit within the law of everything after its own kind.   God is spirit. God is not human. God had to stay within his own laws He set up including the one about everthing after its kind.  If God was going to have a son, He had to chose whether it would be a created son who is spirit, since God is spirit, or  a son of a lower “species”  Mankind's need was the deciding factor.  John 3:16,  God chose to have a son that is human so mankind could be redeemed.  That is love. Call that inference if you want.  It is not.   How many wise men showed up at the stable where the manger was? What does the scripture say?  How many? Scripture does not say.  Therefore we do not know. To suggest three is inference.  Does three gifts absolutely dictate that there were three givers?  No,  real life indicates that many people could contribute to purchase one or three expensive gifts for an individual.   We are not interested in tradition, but in truth. Where did the wise men go?  The went to a house, not a stable. Nativity scenes infer that three wise men showed up at the manger. Does anyone out there know the difference between a house and a stable?  I bet Nick and a few others do. Is there a difference between a  babe in a manger and a young child in a house? Yes there is, and I'll bet Nick and a few others know the difference. I apologize if I seem to be a little off subject here, but I think the examples that I used illustrate Nick's point very well. We must concern ourselves with what is written.  Once we have what is written, then we can build, here a little, there a little.

Welcome!  Just want to tell you that Tim2 Not3in1 and epistemiac are not posting anymore, so you will get no respond from them…..Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (barley @ June 23 2010,12:40)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 24 2007,15:43) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 24 2007,16:37) Quote (Cubes @ April 24 2007,12:22) It bears repeating, and to have scripture interpret scripture: Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GOD [is] one YHWH: Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.   By these scriptures we see that YHWH is One, GOD and Father of all.  We already know that it is written, he is the God and Father of Jesus too.  No inferences. Hi Cubes, There is more than meets the eye with Ephesians 4:6, aside from the very many verses attesting to Yeshua indwelling us by His Spirit, there is this verse: John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. Hmmm, looks like the “One God” indwelling us is a “we” and an “our”… How do you explain this Cubes? Is 1:18 Excellent point. Of course there is no answer for the Arian view. For as we know there is only One Spirit that we have been made to drink into, and scriptures teach that that Spirit is God. Yet we read it is Christ. Yet we read it is the comforter. Arianistic and Unitarians and Henotheist have a Bible with 66 books but use a lot of white out.   Do you really read it that way?  Wow! ….and my Father will love him and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.   What is your point? This verse makes clear distinction between the son and the Father.  love me, keep my words, the Father will love him… We….     We who?  The Father and the son.  Both, not two in one being, but two.   Why did the holy Ghost get left out?

barley

Of course I read it that way. The scriptures say that we have recieved only “One Spirit” not 2 or 3.

Yet we know that according to the scriptures that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit lives in us.

How many Spirits have you recieved?

There is one one Spirit, one God, three persons seen in the whole council of God.

WJ

[barley]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 25 2007,06:49)

Hi Cubes, That's an interesting take on it. But I disagree. Adam I, the person, does not indwell us at all, there is not one verse that would suggest this. Also bear in mind that they (The Father and Yeshua) will 'come to us' before they make their “abode” (residence) with us. This is quite an explicit declaration that your explanation does not account for. Gotta Go Blessings

The idea that Adam 1 indwells in us is a sound conclusion. Not in the sense that some alien invaded us. Rather, we all are offspring of Adam and Eve. They are part of us. or maybe even more than that. Do you have characteristics of both your mother and father? Of course you do. Genetically you do. However, you do have your own will. We all have our genetics based on the genetics of Adam and Eve. Even Jesus Christ does. When Adam and Eve sinned, their sin affected and infected all mankind with a sinful nature. Jesus Christ is our savior from that sinful nature. We are dead to sin, although we were dead in trespasses and sin. We were saved from our sinful nature by the Lord Jesus Christ. Why did he do that? Because that was God's will for his life. Just a Moses led Israel out of the bondage of Egypt, so did JC lead us out of the bondage of our sinful nature.

That is God's love toward us. John 3

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