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Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 01 2009,13:23) Stuart, Thank you, being sorted with Ron is such a delight for me.
Now, let me let you in on a secular note. when one accuses another without cause, it is really a deep rooted emotion of the one accusing.
With prayer and fasting Stuart, you can get through it. We could be prayer partners, that would be great. Let me know.
take care
P of the K I am so pleased to see you acknowledge that when a christian calls all and sundry 'sinners', it is an accusation that is really a deep-rooted emotion of the one doing the accusing.What can I “get through” with prayer and fasting? The last vestiges of the destruction of my humanity to the brutal human sacrifice you think I need to accept to live a meaningful existence?
I can see how the brain would need to be dumbed and subdued by ritual and starvation to believe in that.
Stuart
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 01 2009,01:00) Why dont you explain to me why I should be “bothered by what HUMANS claim to be the image of my martyr”. Then enlighten me by “understanding the point”.
I still dont see why its important to put a face to a man or even a diety?
It is nothing but vanity. Unless you have the belief a man or diety can only be worshipped if you can see him.
Well if we stretch the concept of 'seeing' a little then what is it of this man-god martyr that actually you can observe? You can't know what he looked like, you can't know what he said and you can't know with any confidence whether he even existed.So, when you say the image is not important, perhaps you can explain why not. It is just one more thing you don't know about Jesus and it is a shame that you are not honest enough to acknowledge that the alleged words are just as uncertain as is the image.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,02:14) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 01 2009,15:56) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,15:48) 90210 you have muddied the waters beautifully by asserting stuff that cannot possibly have anything to do with an historical figure that allegedly lived so much later. I mean, Isaiah was dead long before the alleged birth of Jesus, so he cannot possibly have known about him, can he. You may as well assert that the iron carries an exact replica for all the difference there is. Stuart
Hi Stu:No, Isaiah could have not know anything about Jesus except that God revealed this to him, and also, the Spirit of God dwelling within me also testifies that God is a reality and that the testimony regarding Jesus is true.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Isaiah did not know anything about Jesus because he had been dead for 700 years at the alleged time of Jesus.So tell me what the writers of Isaiah actually have to do with Jesus?
The spirit of the Flying Spaghetti Monster dwelling within me tells me that you are spinning superstitious bluster.
Stuart
Actually Isaiah had one thing athiests and science didnt have, doesnt have, nor will ever have. The 'elohim given gift of prophecy / future insight. While athiest and science may many a wonderful things, it can never have that gift.And it does not have to be proven to an athiest nor to science, so if you feel you need to keep an rattling your war drums against an evil religion, your'e wasting your time and effort, because prophecy nor religion cares one iota what you think. Enjoy the path your on.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 01 2009,21:29) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,02:14) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 01 2009,15:56) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,15:48) 90210 you have muddied the waters beautifully by asserting stuff that cannot possibly have anything to do with an historical figure that allegedly lived so much later. I mean, Isaiah was dead long before the alleged birth of Jesus, so he cannot possibly have known about him, can he. You may as well assert that the iron carries an exact replica for all the difference there is. Stuart
Hi Stu:No, Isaiah could have not know anything about Jesus except that God revealed this to him, and also, the Spirit of God dwelling within me also testifies that God is a reality and that the testimony regarding Jesus is true.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Isaiah did not know anything about Jesus because he had been dead for 700 years at the alleged time of Jesus.So tell me what the writers of Isaiah actually have to do with Jesus?
The spirit of the Flying Spaghetti Monster dwelling within me tells me that you are spinning superstitious bluster.
Stuart
Actually Isaiah had one thing athiests and science didnt have, doesnt have, nor will ever have. The 'elohim given gift of prophecy / future insight. While athiest and science may many a wonderful things, it can never have that gift.And it does not have to be proven to an athiest nor to science, so if you feel you need to keep an rattling your war drums against an evil religion, your'e wasting your time and effort, because prophecy nor religion cares one iota what you think. Enjoy the path your on.
Did any of the three or more writers of Isaiah ever meet Jesus? Did they ever hear about him? Did they ever write the name Jesus? No. There were dead by the alleged time of Jesus. You would have to be gullible in the extreme to seriously adhere to what you have written. Deluded in fact. I am glad not to be on that path.I am glad that I do not have so much emotional investment in religious fantasy stories that I have to pull out trump cards with “It was just magic, OK?” written on them whenever someone demonstrates to me that what I believe is absurd.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2009,20:33) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 30 2009,13:44) Charles Darwin image An Onion exclusive.
I'm glad you know the excellent Onion, t8.Have you stumbled upon the Landover Baptists?
Stuart
Na.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 01 2009,21:46) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2009,20:33) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 30 2009,13:44) Charles Darwin image An Onion exclusive.
I'm glad you know the excellent Onion, t8.Have you stumbled upon the Landover Baptists?
Stuart
Na.
Friendly advice: if you do ever visit their site and as a consequence get mad at them, DON'T vent your spleen in an email because they publish them for the amusement of heathens like me.Stuart
Quote Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:36) Actually Isaiah had one thing athiests and science didnt have, doesnt have, nor will ever have. The 'elohim given gift of prophecy / future insight. While athiest and science may many a wonderful things, it can never have that gift. And it does not have to be proven to an athiest nor to science, so if you feel you need to keep an rattling your war drums against an evil religion, your'e wasting your time and effort, because prophecy nor religion cares one iota what you think. Enjoy the path your on.
Did any of the three or more writers of Isaiah ever meet Jesus? Did they ever hear about him? Did they ever write the name Jesus? No. There were dead by the alleged time of Jesus. You would have to be gullible in the extreme to seriously adhere to what you have written. Deluded in fact. I am glad not to be on that path.I am glad that I do not have so much emotional investment in religious fantasy stories that I have to pull out trump cards with “It was just magic, OK?” written on them whenever someone demonstrates to me that what I believe is absurd.
Stuart
It's called prophecy. Prophets talk about the future. If men prophecy correctly, then this has all kinds of implications. Implications that you run away from.Scripture prophecies the restoration of Israel and the Hebrew language. It speaks of the future to come with great clarity.
The bible is something like 1/3 prophecy.
Try this piece of writing, written hundreds of years BC.
Psalm 22:16-18
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:49) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 01 2009,21:46) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2009,20:33) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 30 2009,13:44) Charles Darwin image An Onion exclusive.
I'm glad you know the excellent Onion, t8.Have you stumbled upon the Landover Baptists?
Stuart
Na.
Friendly advice: if you do ever visit their site and as a consequence get mad at them, DON'T vent your spleen in an email because they publish them for the amusement of heathens like me.Stuart
I googled them and was quite surprised at their blatant racism.Is the website a spoof, or for real? I can't tell.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 01 2009,22:04) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:49) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 01 2009,21:46) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2009,20:33) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 30 2009,13:44) Charles Darwin image An Onion exclusive.
I'm glad you know the excellent Onion, t8.Have you stumbled upon the Landover Baptists?
Stuart
Na.
Friendly advice: if you do ever visit their site and as a consequence get mad at them, DON'T vent your spleen in an email because they publish them for the amusement of heathens like me.Stuart
I googled them and was quite surprised at their blatant racism.Is the website a spoof, or for real? I can't tell.
Just don't get mad at them!Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 01 2009,21:58) Quote Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:36) Actually Isaiah had one thing athiests and science didnt have, doesnt have, nor will ever have. The 'elohim given gift of prophecy / future insight. While athiest and science may many a wonderful things, it can never have that gift. And it does not have to be proven to an athiest nor to science, so if you feel you need to keep an rattling your war drums against an evil religion, your'e wasting your time and effort, because prophecy nor religion cares one iota what you think. Enjoy the path your on.
Did any of the three or more writers of Isaiah ever meet Jesus? Did they ever hear about him? Did they ever write the name Jesus? No. There were dead by the alleged time of Jesus. You would have to be gullible in the extreme to seriously adhere to what you have written. Deluded in fact. I am glad not to be on that path.I am glad that I do not have so much emotional investment in religious fantasy stories that I have to pull out trump cards with “It was just magic, OK?” written on them whenever someone demonstrates to me that what I believe is absurd.
Stuart
It's called prophecy. Prophets talk about the future. If men prophecy correctly, then this has all kinds of implications. Implications that you run away from.Scripture prophecies the restoration of Israel and the Hebrew language. It speaks of the future to come with great clarity.
The bible is something like 1/3 prophecy.
Try this piece of writing, written hundreds of years BC.
Psalm 22:16-18
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.
So you are saying this has 'implications'.What are they?
Stuart
If knowledge is imparted to humans that is not attained using scientific practice, then it shows that certain truths (which are impossible to gain from science) are being revealed and that means that someone or something is revealing it.
Many scientists would refuse to believe the possibility that anyone could write or know with authority about the future and tell of events that haven't happened. Of course to aid in their refusal you only need the lack of checking it out.
Some of these people are so proud that their arrogance and that their attitude makes them ignorant and the words “Pride goes before a fall” or “God has not revealed these things to the worldly wise but to the innocent” are indeed correct.
In this scenario Stu, you are a prime candidate. You do not even entertain the possibility of revelation, and that is your choice. And your choice blinds you to great possibilities and makes you ignorant of them.
It also explains why some (such as yourself) use ridiculing language. It is because you are completely ignorant of such things. They are beyond your comprehension and so all you can do is laugh, because you have nothing intelligent to add.
Remember that saying “first they laugh at you…”
Try these too.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.2 Corinthians 4:3
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.Not all can see. People are blind for a reason. Some people decide to not see because they don't want to see the truth. Some people run from the light.
I know that Saul of Tarsus followed the Psalmists and others in that he was arrogant and used ridiculing language, but you have dodged the question again.
You said the contents of your previous post, that of the writers of Isaiah, had implications. What are they?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:14) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 01 2009,15:56) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,15:48) 90210 you have muddied the waters beautifully by asserting stuff that cannot possibly have anything to do with an historical figure that allegedly lived so much later. I mean, Isaiah was dead long before the alleged birth of Jesus, so he cannot possibly have known about him, can he. You may as well assert that the iron carries an exact replica for all the difference there is. Stuart
Hi Stu:No, Isaiah could have not know anything about Jesus except that God revealed this to him, and also, the Spirit of God dwelling within me also testifies that God is a reality and that the testimony regarding Jesus is true.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Isaiah did not know anything about Jesus because he had been dead for 700 years at the alleged time of Jesus.So tell me what the writers of Isaiah actually have to do with Jesus?
The spirit of the Flying Spaghetti Monster dwelling within me tells me that you are spinning superstitious bluster.
Stuart
Hi Stu:Keep listening to the flying spaghetti monster within you and you are going to end up in a ditch with no one to pull you out.
But as Jesus instructed me this I will do, and he has said if they refuse to hear, “shake the dust off your feet” and move on. It is your little red wagon.
Love in Christ,
MartyProverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Psalm 14:6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and [findeth it] not: but knowledge [is] easy unto him that understandeth.
2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 02 2009,12:39) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:14) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 01 2009,15:56) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,15:48) 90210 you have muddied the waters beautifully by asserting stuff that cannot possibly have anything to do with an historical figure that allegedly lived so much later. I mean, Isaiah was dead long before the alleged birth of Jesus, so he cannot possibly have known about him, can he. You may as well assert that the iron carries an exact replica for all the difference there is. Stuart
Hi Stu:No, Isaiah could have not know anything about Jesus except that God revealed this to him, and also, the Spirit of God dwelling within me also testifies that God is a reality and that the testimony regarding Jesus is true.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Isaiah did not know anything about Jesus because he had been dead for 700 years at the alleged time of Jesus.So tell me what the writers of Isaiah actually have to do with Jesus?
The spirit of the Flying Spaghetti Monster dwelling within me tells me that you are spinning superstitious bluster.
Stuart
Hi Stu:Keep listening to the flying spaghetti monster within you and you are going to end up in a ditch with no one to pull you out.
But as Jesus instructed me this I will do, and he has said if they refuse to hear, “shake the dust off your feet” and move on. It is your little red wagon.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Glad to see you pulling back from the madness of thinking that dead people can know what is going on today.You still seem to be indulging in the delusion that you can possibly know with any confidence what Jesus said. That is not reasonable, of course.
The ditch, and little red wagon analogies are a bit lost on me. Maybe you could be a bit more literal for me. What EXACTLY are you threatening me with on behalf of your imaginary friend?
As for shaking the dust off, how does that square with Matthew 7:12? Should I be shaking off your dust? I do not have such a miserable view of humanity that I would need to ignore others on the basis of trivial disagreements.
Love the christian but oppose the christian delusion that makes him say unfortunate things, is my motto!
Stuart
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 02 2009,14:09) Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Psalm 14:6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and [findeth it] not: but knowledge [is] easy unto him that understandeth.
2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
You can almost see the saliva dribbling down the chops of the writer of Jude, can't you!Has it never occurred to you that so many myth writers, especially the one who used to be known as Saul of Tarsus, protesteth SO MUCH about mockery? If this is really the one true way, the truth and only truth, why would you even mention mockery? It should all be self-evidently true shouldn't it?
Of course the real reason is that, like any dodgy cult of worship, there is a political manifesto to maintain against political opponents: Judeo-christianity is just another of the many political ways of viewing the world, and Paul knew that he was fighting a political fight which would require his own ardent and arrogant mockery of the mockers. He had the tradition of the Psalmists and others as you have shown, and inspired others too.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 02 2009,15:38) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 02 2009,12:39) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:14) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 01 2009,15:56) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,15:48) 90210 you have muddied the waters beautifully by asserting stuff that cannot possibly have anything to do with an historical figure that allegedly lived so much later. I mean, Isaiah was dead long before the alleged birth of Jesus, so he cannot possibly have known about him, can he. You may as well assert that the iron carries an exact replica for all the difference there is. Stuart
Hi Stu:No, Isaiah could have not know anything about Jesus except that God revealed this to him, and also, the Spirit of God dwelling within me also testifies that God is a reality and that the testimony regarding Jesus is true.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Isaiah did not know anything about Jesus because he had been dead for 700 years at the alleged time of Jesus.So tell me what the writers of Isaiah actually have to do with Jesus?
The spirit of the Flying Spaghetti Monster dwelling within me tells me that you are spinning superstitious bluster.
Stuart
Hi Stu:Keep listening to the flying spaghetti monster within you and you are going to end up in a ditch with no one to pull you out.
But as Jesus instructed me this I will do, and he has said if they refuse to hear, “shake the dust off your feet” and move on. It is your little red wagon.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Glad to see you pulling back from the madness of thinking that dead people can know what is going on today.You still seem to be indulging in the delusion that you can possibly know with any confidence what Jesus said. That is not reasonable, of course.
The ditch, and little red wagon analogies are a bit lost on me. Maybe you could be a bit more literal for me. What EXACTLY are you threatening me with on behalf of your imaginary friend?
As for shaking the dust off, how does that square with Matthew 7:12? Should I be shaking off your dust? I do not have such a miserable view of humanity that I would need to ignore others on the basis of trivial disagreements.
Love the christian but oppose the christian delusion that makes him say unfortunate things, is my motto!
Stuart
Hi Stu:I am not threatening you, but just warning you that according to the scriptures which I know to be the truth there is a day of judgment coming.
I have shared the truth out of my love for you and you keep insisting that what I am telling you is a delusion.
Isaiah prophesied while he was alive relative to Jesus and the suffering that he would go through in our behalf. Daniel also prophesied about the coming Messiah, and King David did as well. All these are physically dead, but they will be resurrected from the dead at the coming of the Lord for the church.
About the comment of “shaking the dust off my feet”, once I have shared the gospel with you and you choose not to believe it, what more can I do. This is not something that is to be forced upon you.
God is not willing that any man should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Dec. 02 2009,16:04) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 02 2009,15:38) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 02 2009,12:39) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,21:14) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 01 2009,15:56) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 01 2009,15:48) 90210 you have muddied the waters beautifully by asserting stuff that cannot possibly have anything to do with an historical figure that allegedly lived so much later. I mean, Isaiah was dead long before the alleged birth of Jesus, so he cannot possibly have known about him, can he. You may as well assert that the iron carries an exact replica for all the difference there is. Stuart
Hi Stu:No, Isaiah could have not know anything about Jesus except that God revealed this to him, and also, the Spirit of God dwelling within me also testifies that God is a reality and that the testimony regarding Jesus is true.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Isaiah did not know anything about Jesus because he had been dead for 700 years at the alleged time of Jesus.So tell me what the writers of Isaiah actually have to do with Jesus?
The spirit of the Flying Spaghetti Monster dwelling within me tells me that you are spinning superstitious bluster.
Stuart
Hi Stu:Keep listening to the flying spaghetti monster within you and you are going to end up in a ditch with no one to pull you out.
But as Jesus instructed me this I will do, and he has said if they refuse to hear, “shake the dust off your feet” and move on. It is your little red wagon.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Glad to see you pulling back from the madness of thinking that dead people can know what is going on today.You still seem to be indulging in the delusion that you can possibly know with any confidence what Jesus said. That is not reasonable, of course.
The ditch, and little red wagon analogies are a bit lost on me. Maybe you could be a bit more literal for me. What EXACTLY are you threatening me with on behalf of your imaginary friend?
As for shaking the dust off, how does that square with Matthew 7:12? Should I be shaking off your dust? I do not have such a miserable view of humanity that I would need to ignore others on the basis of trivial disagreements.
Love the christian but oppose the christian delusion that makes him say unfortunate things, is my motto!
Stuart
Hi Stu:I am not threatening you, but just warning you that according to the scriptures which I know to be the truth there is a day of judgment coming.
I have shared the truth out of my love for you and you keep insisting that what I am telling you is a delusion.
Isaiah prophesied while he was alive relative to Jesus and the suffering that he would go through in our behalf. Daniel also prophesied about the coming Messiah, and King David did as well. All these are physically dead, but they will be resurrected from the dead at the coming of the Lord for the church.
About the comment of “shaking the dust off my feet”, once I have shared the gospel with you and you choose not to believe it, what more can I do. This is not something that is to be forced upon you.
God is not willing that any man should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Love in Christ,
Marty
What you “can do” is to seriously consider what I have to say, instead of patronising me by consenting to share your truth without acknowledging the validity of my truth. Not that I expect fundies to have any consideration for others' points of view. Do you see conversation as the process of you preaching and then walking away when the other person is not completely agreeing with you?Once again, I ask you what the writers of Isaiah actually had to do with Jesus. Did they NAME Jesus as such? If not, on what basis have you decided that there is magic in play here?
I did not ask what YOUR threat was, I never imagined for a second you were threatening me, I asked you what the threat was that you were kindly passing on, on behalf of your Imaginary Friend. Christians are so full of the the implied threats of their deity, but will never say what it is that they think will actually happen. I think that is mainly because it is a dark age game of bluff they are playing.
Don't you think so?
Stuart
Hi Stu:
You say:
Quote Christians are so full of the the implied threats of their deity, but will never say what it is that they think will actually happen. I think that is mainly because it is a dark age game of bluff they are playing. No, not a bluff, and since I already know the truth, why should I listen to something from you that contradicts the truth.
If one of the reasons that you keep hanging on here, is to convince me that you have the truth. You are wasting your time.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2009,10:22) Hi Stu: You say:
Quote Christians are so full of the the implied threats of their deity, but will never say what it is that they think will actually happen. I think that is mainly because it is a dark age game of bluff they are playing. No, not a bluff, and since I already know the truth, why should I listen to something from you that contradicts the truth.
If one of the reasons that you keep hanging on here, is to convince me that you have the truth. You are wasting your time.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You define truth to be what you want it to be. We all do that, but you actively ignore what others have to say that contradicts your 'truth'. It is both a pure and an absurd thing you believe, untainted by reality.You have still not told me what it is that Judeo-christian mythology is actually threatening me with. A load of hot air, by what you have been writing.
Stuart
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