How much should we love jesus?

[RokkaMan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,08:17)

Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,04:23) It also doesn't say, love your neighbor more than Jesus…It says love your neighbor as you do yourself…but clearly you are to love Jesus more than yourself. Loving Jesus more than yourself does not mean to love Jesus more than your neighbor because in that sense neighbor is someone who loves to do what is right and therefore neighbor may have more value than a negligent family. Jesus said as you do to the least of these you have done also to me so therefore Jesus does not raise himself above any believer who does what is right, he also said that a servant is not greater than his master and yet Jesus calls himself a servant and a friend to those who believe.

Yes he did come to serve us, but his master has always been The Father…at what point has anyone in mankind been Jesus' Master?

He came to server and teach us, to free us from the bondage of sin…In exchange we are to serve one another…and who are our masters?

God and Jesus.

And yes we are his friends…so what's your point?

My point is that we must love God more than anything…period.

Love Jesus just as much for he is the reflection of God, and love to him would be equally directed to the one who sent him.

Love your neighbor as you do yourself…

If you do harm to a little one who abides in Jesus, you do harm to him…thats how the scripture goes…you missed that.

Just like if you do harm to Jesus' name, you'd be doing harm to The Father as well.

My bases for my argument was strictly biblical, and the commandment of Jesus himself… do you think you'd win against that?

[RokkaMan]

bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word.

That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more.

[RokkaMan]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:25)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,08:17) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,04:23) It also doesn't say, love your neighbor more than Jesus…It says love your neighbor as you do yourself…but clearly you are to love Jesus more than yourself. Loving Jesus more than yourself does not mean to love Jesus more than your neighbor because in that sense neighbor is someone who loves to do what is right and therefore neighbor may have more value than a negligent family. Jesus said as you do to the least of these you have done also to me so therefore Jesus does not raise himself above any believer who does what is right, he also said that a servant is not greater than his master and yet Jesus calls himself a servant and a friend to those who believe. Yes he did come to serve us, but his master has always been The Father…at what point has anyone in mankind been Jesus' Master? He came to server and teach us, to free us from the bondage of sin…In exchange we are to serve one another…and who are our masters? God and Jesus. And yes we are his friends…so what's your point? My point is that we must love God more than anything…period. Love Jesus just as much for he is the reflection of God, and love to him would be equally directed to the one who sent him. Love your neighbor as you do yourself… If you do harm to a little one who abides in Jesus, you do harm to him…thats how the scripture goes…you missed that. Just like if you do harm to Jesus' name, you'd be doing harm to The Father as well. My bases for my argument was strictly biblical, and the commandment of Jesus himself… do you think you'd win against that?

I'm sorry, I got off the phone after a heavy christian debate, and the frustration is still with me, forgive me for such aggressive remarks.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27)

bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more.

You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God.

If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons.

God Bless You!

[KangarooJack]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41)

Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You!

TO ALL,
Bodhitharta says this because he does not believe that Jesus died for him. Bd denies that there was a crucifixion. So he would not love Jesus more than he would love the guy next door.

Jesus required that we love Him to the degree that we deny everything for His sake. Love for God can be no greater. Therefore, Jesus required that we love Him as we would love God.

thinker

[RokkaMan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41)

Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You!

Love and Respect are two different things.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 17 2009,01:22)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! TO ALL, Bodhitharta says this because he does not believe that Jesus died for him. Bd denies that there was a crucifixion. So he would not love Jesus more than he would love the guy next door. Jesus required that we love Him to the degree that we deny everything for His sake. Love for God can be no greater. Therefore, Jesus required that we love Him as we would love God. thinker

Matthew 22:36-38 (King James Version)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

What is not clear about this? Jesus said God is to be loved above all.

Look at what Jesus says here:

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:41-43

Notice he said you would have loved me and not you would have loved me like God.

and in regards to your crucifixion statement:

Deuteronomy 4:30-32 (King James Version)

30When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

31(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

32For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 17 2009,06:00)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! Love and Respect are two different things.

The point is you can love Jesus anyway you like but God is whom you should be devoted to and Love with every fiber of your being because when you can love God to that extent the love you have for others is in direct line of that Godly Love.

Often I see people talking about how much they love Jesus so much but will walk right in front of a homeless person asking for spare change or go home and ignore their wife and kids, talking about they are immersed in the words of Jesus.

Don't just stand at the door, go through it.

[Douglas]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,08:52)

Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 17 2009,06:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! Love and Respect are two different things. The point is you can love Jesus anyway you like but God is whom you should be devoted to and Love with every fiber of your being because when you can love God to that extent the love you have for others is in direct line of that Godly Love. Often I see people talking about how much they love Jesus so much but will walk right in front of a homeless person asking for spare change or go home and ignore their wife and kids, talking about they are immersed in the words of Jesus. Don't just stand at the door, go through it.

In this country though I think the majority of people begging are either “professional” beggars, or trying to fund drug or alcohol habits.

Better to offer them food than change, everyone needs food, not everyone needs money. If they turn it down (even after asking for money with which to BUY food), you know which they are.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,09:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,08:52) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 17 2009,06:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! Love and Respect are two different things. The point is you can love Jesus anyway you like but God is whom you should be devoted to and Love with every fiber of your being because when you can love God to that extent the love you have for others is in direct line of that Godly Love. Often I see people talking about how much they love Jesus so much but will walk right in front of a homeless person asking for spare change or go home and ignore their wife and kids, talking about they are immersed in the words of Jesus. Don't just stand at the door, go through it. In this country though I think the majority of people begging are either “professional” beggars, or trying to fund drug or alcohol habits. Better to offer them food than change, everyone needs food, not everyone needs money. If they turn it down (even after asking for money with which to BUY food), you know which they are.

I don't think it is right to try to control what people want to do with money you give them because once you give it to them it is theirs, if they want to eat, get drunk or do whatever it is their choice just as we make our own choices with our money.

[Proclaimer]

Not wise to give money to a person to use for a drug habit.
We do not want to partake in any way.
Sure, we can't be blamed if we didn't know.
But wisdom sees the possibilities and is not blind.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8………..I was meaning to ask you does it take money to operate this site , if so I would like to contribute to it. Just let me know by private email. Love and peace to you and yours………………gene

[Douglas]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,12:34)

Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,09:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,08:52) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 17 2009,06:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! Love and Respect are two different things. The point is you can love Jesus anyway you like but God is whom you should be devoted to and Love with every fiber of your being because when you can love God to that extent the love you have for others is in direct line of that Godly Love. Often I see people talking about how much they love Jesus so much but will walk right in front of a homeless person asking for spare change or go home and ignore their wife and kids, talking about they are immersed in the words of Jesus. Don't just stand at the door, go through it. In this country though I think the majority of people begging are either “professional” beggars, or trying to fund drug or alcohol habits. Better to offer them food than change, everyone needs food, not everyone needs money. If they turn it down (even after asking for money with which to BUY food), you know which they are. I don't think it is right to try to control what people want to do with money you give them because once you give it to them it is theirs, if they want to eat, get drunk or do whatever it is their choice just as we make our own choices with our money.

Oh, I don't try to control what people do with money I give them, I just don't give it to them. The one I will probably remember the most was a woman – asking for some money to help get a bus fare together as an emergency. I said no (as I always do) and somewhat over a week later, the same woman approached me again. I rather tactlessly asked how it was going on the bus fare (before she spoke) and spent the next few hundred yards making sure she wasn't going to try to mug me. Saw her plenty more times over the year but she never asked me again. And she never seemed to have enough for a relatively short bus trip, which makes me think the original request was a lie, and why would I reward lies?

My philosophy is a little different perhaps (not to mention selfish). You see, I know as I drive to work that I'm doing my bit to contribute to the death of an indeterminate number of people by adding that bit more pollution to the atmosphere. It doesn't stop me driving to work but I'm well aware of the consequences of my actions. Just as if I give money to someone to help them buy drugs, that money is going to travel around through all sorts of criminal gangs that cause great harm and suffering – not just to the drug users and the society those users tend to prey upon, but to people in the countries that grow the drugs and who die fighting about drugs. If I know that my action is going to cause harm and it's reasonable to avoid it, I do so.

The basic things people need are quite limited really – food, fluids, shelter, clothing and company.

If you can see an action will do more harm than good to the world, why proceed with it?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 19 2009,13:11)

Not wise to give money to a person to use for a drug habit. We do not want to partake in any way. Sure, we can't be blamed if we didn't know. But wisdom sees the possibilities and is not blind.

we can not assume someone is a drug addict and even if they were we cannot assume what they are going to do with the money we give them. Jesus said “give to those who ask” he didn't say but first analyze why they are asking.

I see this excuse among so many when the deeper reason for not giving usually is stinginess. We are not the lord of the person asking so when we give we give out of love for God and His creation. What if we gave money to someone who is a drug addict and fully intends to go get drugs but on the way God touches their heart and they make a phonecall to their mom or dad and reconciles with them and gets help and becomes a deep believer all because we opened our hand to them.

So, If I have it, I give it because I have to give it's why I have it

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,20:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,12:34) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,09:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,08:52) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 17 2009,06:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! Love and Respect are two different things. The point is you can love Jesus anyway you like but God is whom you should be devoted to and Love with every fiber of your being because when you can love God to that extent the love you have for others is in direct line of that Godly Love. Often I see people talking about how much they love Jesus so much but will walk right in front of a homeless person asking for spare change or go home and ignore their wife and kids, talking about they are immersed in the words of Jesus. Don't just stand at the door, go through it. In this country though I think the majority of people begging are either “professional” beggars, or trying to fund drug or alcohol habits. Better to offer them food than change, everyone needs food, not everyone needs money. If they turn it down (even after asking for money with which to BUY food), you know which they are. I don't think it is right to try to control what people want to do with money you give them because once you give it to them it is theirs, if they want to eat, get drunk or do whatever it is their choice just as we make our own choices with our money. Oh, I don't try to control what people do with money I give them, I just don't give it to them. The one I will probably remember the most was a woman – asking for some money to help get a bus fare together as an emergency. I said no (as I always do) and somewhat over a week later, the same woman approached me again. I rather tactlessly asked how it was going on the bus fare (before she spoke) and spent the next few hundred yards making sure she wasn't going to try to mug me. Saw her plenty more times over the year but she never asked me again. And she never seemed to have enough for a relatively short bus trip, which makes me think the original request was a lie, and why would I reward lies? My philosophy is a little different perhaps (not to mention selfish). You see, I know as I drive to work that I'm doing my bit to contribute to the death of an indeterminate number of people by adding that bit more pollution to the atmosphere. It doesn't stop me driving to work but I'm well aware of the consequences of my actions. Just as if I give money to someone to help them buy drugs, that money is going to travel around through all sorts of criminal gangs that cause great harm and suffering – not just to the drug users and the society those users tend to prey upon, but to people in the countries that grow the drugs and who die fighting about drugs. If I know that my action is going to cause harm and it's reasonable to avoid it, I do so. The basic things people need are quite limited really – food, fluids, shelter, clothing and company. If you can see an action will do more harm than good to the world, why proceed with it?

I understand your position but however you mentioned being cautious about whether this person would try to mug you well what if not helping the person leads to that person mugging someone?

I used to not give money too but the fact is as far as the drug gangs and so forth that you mentioned they get their bulk of money from people who have money and many people who don't give money to those who ask use drugs and they don't share because it would decrease the money they have for their own personal use.

Now, my point is our decisions don't always have their intended impact so instead we should act out of love.

[Douglas]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 20 2009,04:58)

Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,20:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,12:34) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,09:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,08:52) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 17 2009,06:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! Love and Respect are two different things. The point is you can love Jesus anyway you like but God is whom you should be devoted to and Love with every fiber of your being because when you can love God to that extent the love you have for others is in direct line of that Godly Love. Often I see people talking about how much they love Jesus so much but will walk right in front of a homeless person asking for spare change or go home and ignore their wife and kids, talking about they are immersed in the words of Jesus. Don't just stand at the door, go through it. In this country though I think the majority of people begging are either “professional” beggars, or trying to fund drug or alcohol habits. Better to offer them food than change, everyone needs food, not everyone needs money. If they turn it down (even after asking for money with which to BUY food), you know which they are. I don't think it is right to try to control what people want to do with money you give them because once you give it to them it is theirs, if they want to eat, get drunk or do whatever it is their choice just as we make our own choices with our money. Oh, I don't try to control what people do with money I give them, I just don't give it to them. The one I will probably remember the most was a woman – asking for some money to help get a bus fare together as an emergency. I said no (as I always do) and somewhat over a week later, the same woman approached me again. I rather tactlessly asked how it was going on the bus fare (before she spoke) and spent the next few hundred yards making sure she wasn't going to try to mug me. Saw her plenty more times over the year but she never asked me again. And she never seemed to have enough for a relatively short bus trip, which makes me think the original request was a lie, and why would I reward lies? My philosophy is a little different perhaps (not to mention selfish). You see, I know as I drive to work that I'm doing my bit to contribute to the death of an indeterminate number of people by adding that bit more pollution to the atmosphere. It doesn't stop me driving to work but I'm well aware of the consequences of my actions. Just as if I give money to someone to help them buy drugs, that money is going to travel around through all sorts of criminal gangs that cause great harm and suffering – not just to the drug users and the society those users tend to prey upon, but to people in the countries that grow the drugs and who die fighting about drugs. If I know that my action is going to cause harm and it's reasonable to avoid it, I do so. The basic things people need are quite limited really – food, fluids, shelter, clothing and company. If you can see an action will do more harm than good to the world, why proceed with it? I understand your position but however you mentioned being cautious about whether this person would try to mug you well what if not helping the person leads to that person mugging someone? I used to not give money too but the fact is as far as the drug gangs and so forth that you mentioned they get their bulk of money from people who have money and many people who don't give money to those who ask use drugs and they don't share because it would decrease the money they have for their own personal use. Now, my point is our decisions don't always have their intended impact so instead we should act out of love.

Well, I am in honesty quite a stingy person. I grew up with very little money and to this day I try to take great care with it.

I would say that the first time someone comes up to me and says that they are desparately hungry and need food – will be the time I seriously consider giving them either food – or money with which to get it.

If someone I refused money went on to mug someone else (and really this individual wasn't physically built for it, but was just somewhat angry because I was rather tactless in pointing out what they were doing) I don't think I'd feel particularly bad – to give someone money merely to stop them mugging amounts to extortion and it is their choice to mug someone, I haven't given them any resources to facilitate their actions.

A couple of questions though:

Where do you draw the line? If you have $100, will you give it all to someone who asks, or only give them $5? When would you stop giving up your money to those who ask for it?

Is there ever a moral case for being stingy? Suppose I know that I am likely to need everything I have for something later that could still end up helping people and I believe that is a far more efficient use of my resources, isn't it better to aim at the greater good? If you could help a greater number of people in greater need of your help by retaining your money until a later time, would you?

Again, anyone who came to my with a real honest problem, I'd likely consider helping. Lack of money is something I've known all too much of my life, lack of food is something I've fortunately not had to confront in the extreme to date.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 20 2009,08:22)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 20 2009,04:58) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,20:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,12:34) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 19 2009,09:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 19 2009,08:52) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 17 2009,06:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 16 2009,13:41) Quote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,08:27) bodhitharta, I'd think it blasphemy to love your neighbor more than Jesus, for if you love anyone more than Jesus…then you love this material world more than God's Word. That should not be so for any christian…we are to lay our lives down for our friends, but for God…even so much more. You are doing very well but you are missing the point if you love Jesus more than you love me or anyone else you are being disobedient to God. If the Holy Spirit of God dwells in you then how could you be a respector of persons? God is not a respector of persons. God Bless You! Love and Respect are two different things. The point is you can love Jesus anyway you like but God is whom you should be devoted to and Love with every fiber of your being because when you can love God to that extent the love you have for others is in direct line of that Godly Love. Often I see people talking about how much they love Jesus so much but will walk right in front of a homeless person asking for spare change or go home and ignore their wife and kids, talking about they are immersed in the words of Jesus. Don't just stand at the door, go through it. In this country though I think the majority of people begging are either “professional” beggars, or trying to fund drug or alcohol habits. Better to offer them food than change, everyone needs food, not everyone needs money. If they turn it down (even after asking for money with which to BUY food), you know which they are. I don't think it is right to try to control what people want to do with money you give them because once you give it to them it is theirs, if they want to eat, get drunk or do whatever it is their choice just as we make our own choices with our money. Oh, I don't try to control what people do with money I give them, I just don't give it to them. The one I will probably remember the most was a woman – asking for some money to help get a bus fare together as an emergency. I said no (as I always do) and somewhat over a week later, the same woman approached me again. I rather tactlessly asked how it was going on the bus fare (before she spoke) and spent the next few hundred yards making sure she wasn't going to try to mug me. Saw her plenty more times over the year but she never asked me again. And she never seemed to have enough for a relatively short bus trip, which makes me think the original request was a lie, and why would I reward lies? My philosophy is a little different perhaps (not to mention selfish). You see, I know as I drive to work that I'm doing my bit to contribute to the death of an indeterminate number of people by adding that bit more pollution to the atmosphere. It doesn't stop me driving to work but I'm well aware of the consequences of my actions. Just as if I give money to someone to help them buy drugs, that money is going to travel around through all sorts of criminal gangs that cause great harm and suffering – not just to the drug users and the society those users tend to prey upon, but to people in the countries that grow the drugs and who die fighting about drugs. If I know that my action is going to cause harm and it's reasonable to avoid it, I do so. The basic things people need are quite limited really – food, fluids, shelter, clothing and company. If you can see an action will do more harm than good to the world, why proceed with it? I understand your position but however you mentioned being cautious about whether this person would try to mug you well what if not helping the person leads to that person mugging someone? I used to not give money too but the fact is as far as the drug gangs and so forth that you mentioned they get their bulk of money from people who have money and many people who don't give money to those who ask use drugs and they don't share because it would decrease the money they have for their own personal use. Now, my point is our decisions don't always have their intended impact so instead we should act out of love. Well, I am in honesty quite a stingy person. I grew up with very little money and to this day I try to take great care with it. I would say that the first time someone comes up to me and says that they are desparately hungry and need food – will be the time I seriously consider giving them either food – or money with which to get it. If someone I refused money went on to mug someone else (and really this individual wasn't physically built for it, but was just somewhat angry because I was rather tactless in pointing out what they were doing) I don't think I'd feel particularly bad – to give someone money merely to stop them mugging amounts to extortion and it is their choice to mug someone, I haven't given them any resources to facilitate their actions. A couple of questions though: Where do you draw the line? If you have $100, will you give it all to someone who asks, or only give them $5? When would you stop giving up your money to those who ask for it? Is there ever a moral case for being stingy? Suppose I know that I am likely to need everything I have for something later that could still end up helping people and I believe that is a far more efficient use of my resources, isn't it better to aim at the greater good? If you could help a greater number of people in greater need of your help by retaining your money until a later time, would you? Again, anyone who came to my with a real honest problem, I'd likely consider helping. Lack of money is something I've known all too much of my life, lack of food is something I've fortunately not had to confront in the extreme to date.

Usually I will respond if I can to their exact request, most people believe it or not will only ask for either spare change or at most a couple of bucks( In either case I usually try to give what they asked for)

If you need everything you have you wouldn't have what they asked to give. If what you have is accounted for something else you don't have it anymore, I'm not saying spend your rent money to buy someone else lunch but if you have money that can be given then it should be acceptable to assist someone else with it.

[942767]

Hi BD:

You are not helping someone if you are helping them to destroy their body. To help someone to continue in their drug habit would not be acting in love.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2009,15:00)

Hi BD: You are not helping someone if you are helping them to destroy their body.  To help someone to continue in their drug habit would not be acting in love. Love in Christ, Marty

I would have to assume what they were doing with the money and that is evil. Feeding someone could be assisting them to do evil, what if someone asks for food so they can have enough strength to rob or kill someone?

Don't guess just love because satan is the one that wants to accuse men before God day and night but God is so merciful He even says:

Proverbs 31:6-7 (King James Version)

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Yes, you want to go in comfort thinking yourself righteous while those perishing suffer but the scripture says to do something different so don't judge If you are to be a bishop then:

Proverbs 31

3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.

4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink
wine; nor for princes strong drink:

5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

So understand that the strong is not like the weak and you must treat them accordingly.

God Bless You!

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2009,14:47)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2009,15:00) Hi BD: You are not helping someone if you are helping them to destroy their body.  To help someone to continue in their drug habit would not be acting in love. Love in Christ, Marty I would have to assume what they were doing with the money and that is evil. Feeding someone could be assisting them to do evil, what if someone asks for food so they can have enough strength to rob or kill someone? Don't guess just love because satan is the one that wants to accuse men before God day and night but God is so merciful He even says: Proverbs 31:6-7 (King James Version) 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. Yes, you want to go in comfort thinking yourself righteous while those perishing suffer but the scripture says to do something different so don't judge If you are to be a bishop then: Proverbs 31 3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. 4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. So understand that the strong is not like the weak and you must treat them accordingly. God Bless You!

Hi BD:

You say:

Quote

Yes, you want to go in comfort thinking yourself righteous while those perishing suffer but the scripture says to do something different so don't judge If you are to be a bishop then:

This is a pretty strong accusation don't you think? I am righteous only because of what God has done for me in the person of Jesus Christ my Lord.

I am not seeking any glory for myself by telling you that at the present and for the past several months I have been giving a tithe of my income to a ministry to the people of the poor country of Haiti, but since you are accusing me, I thought maybe this would help.

Also, I have shared the gospel with whomever will hear since I was born again in February 1980, including 13 years in a street ministry.

I have also shared the gospel with you out my love for you.

God has said that He would use me as a Bishop, and I am here to obey Him. I hope that is good enough for you. It is good enough for me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Author]

Posts