How is Jesus not God?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,14:39)

Hi GM, I agree in part. But it is us who must allow ourselves to be led by the gentle breeze of the Spirit. Gal5 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Mandy…..You could never allow yourself to be lead by God unless God was causing you to, working in your mind to cause to want to do His good Pleasure He causes you to will that, but thats His will at work in you not your own.

“for (HE) works in us to (WILL) and (DO) of His Good pleasure. What a blessing to have the guidance of the One and Only true God, directing your paths. I hope He will direct every decision I ever make from Here and for ever.

I hope i also can stand before Him as a slain Lamb like my brother Jesus, only doing the Fathers will alway and in every thing He chose for me to do. I will be content with that, knowing I am doing His will only.

love and peace to you and yours………..gene

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,16:38)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,14:39) Hi GM, I agree in part. But it is us who must allow ourselves to be led by the gentle breeze of the Spirit.   Gal5 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Mandy…..You could never allow yourself to be lead by God unless God was causing you to,  working in your mind to cause to want to do His good Pleasure He causes you to will that, but thats His will at work in you not your own. “for (HE) works in us to (WILL) and (DO) of His Good pleasure. What a blessing to have the guidance of the One and Only true God, directing your paths. I hope He will direct every decision I ever make from Here and for ever. I hope i also can stand before Him as a slain Lamb like my brother Jesus, only doing the Fathers will alway and in every thing He chose for me to do. I will be content with that, knowing I am doing His will only. love and peace to you and yours………..gene

He will if you let him

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,14:34)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2008,08:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,07:59) But this is mentioned , thy kingdom come (THY WILL) be done You know this might be funny, but I always considered this part of the prayer that Jesus led to be what he hoped for.  In other words, he knew his Father's will was done in heaven and he wanted it to also be done on earth.  You pray for what you don't have, usually. It was obvious that God's will wasn't necessarily being carried out on earth.  Not in those days and certainly not in these days. Hi Mandy, You are right, our adversary(Satan) wants us to follow our so called free wills and negate the only sovereign will of our Father in heaven to fulfill it on earth as it is in heaven. You see in heaven there are no free wills only one supreme will that is being followed by heavenly hosts unlike we who under the bondage of sin. But now we are set free by the blood of Jesus we are no longer under this bondage to follow our free will. Please think over and refer my earlier posts. Love to you Adam

GM

I responded to you and took this conversation to the free will thread Here.

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,16:25)

To All……. The Carnal mind (the one we are born with) IS a enemy of God (Not ) subject to the laws of God Neither (CAN) be. But some would not have you believe that, they by their own so-called (FREE WILL) are able to choose the right way on their own. Even though Jesus Showed that we need to put our (WILLS) to death Like He Did. Whosoever shall save HIS life will loose it and he who will lose His Life shall save it. Your Will is what controls your life, that why it says For God works in us both to will and do (HIS) good Pleasure. Only the arrogant  think they by their so called Free Wills they control their Own destines. You will not find the word FREE WILL anywhere in scriptures. The whole idea of free will displaces, God the Father as Sovereign Creator of all things. And substitutes Man as His own God. Its one of the biggest lies ever put forth by the Apostasies Churches of our day. Ask yourself how could the kingdom of God come and all these separate (wills) be Done. It would be pure chaos to say the lest. NO only ONE WILL will be Done in GOD'S kingdom. The scripture says ” it is written in the volume of the book concerning me I come to do (THY WILL) “O” God.. And again Jesus said, never the less (NOT) my WILL but (THY) Will be done. So Jesus' will was against the will of God wasn't it but what did he do to that will (He put it death).  So don't give me this So Called FREE WILL BULL. Looked like he know something about WILLS these modern Apostatized Churches Don't. If you understood that, there is,was, and always will be only One WILL that will be done, and the only way that can be done is for all other separate will to cease to exist. The proud Hate that idea of giving up there so called Free Wills which really are cause and effect Wills and not Free At all they just presume them to be , but in fact they are held prisoners of those so-called free wills, there is nothing free about them.

Hi GB

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,16:25)

Even though Jesus Showed that we need to put our (WILLS) to death Like He Did.

You put your will to death because you freely chose to do it didnt you?

Did God make you do it?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,16:38)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,14:39) Hi GM, I agree in part. But it is us who must allow ourselves to be led by the gentle breeze of the Spirit.   Gal5 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Mandy…..You could never allow yourself to be lead by God unless God was causing you to,  working in your mind to cause to want to do His good Pleasure He causes you to will that, but thats His will at work in you not your own. “for (HE) works in us to (WILL) and (DO) of His Good pleasure. What a blessing to have the guidance of the One and Only true God, directing your paths. I hope He will direct every decision I ever make from Here and for ever. I hope i also can stand before Him as a slain Lamb like my brother Jesus, only doing the Fathers will alway and in every thing He chose for me to do. I will be content with that, knowing I am doing His will only. love and peace to you and yours………..gene

GB

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,16:38)

I hope i also can stand before Him as a slain Lamb like my brother Jesus, only doing the Fathers will alway and in every thing He chose for me to do. I will be content with that, knowing I am doing His will only.

What are you worried about? For if God chose for you to walk as Jesus without sin without any act of your own to submit to him, then you must not ever sin, is that right?

And if you do sin, then does that mean the Father failed to perform his sovereign will in you?

[NickHassan]

hi WJ,
Indeed we fail and sin.
No magic puppetry like Pinochio.

[NickHassan]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,15:07)

Amen brother, Again no free will because we are led by the Spirit of God.

Hi GM,
We should be.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

But is it automatic?
Gal5
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

nope

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,17:15)

hi WJ, Indeed we fail and sin. No magic puppetry like Pinochio.

[gollamudi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,17:17)

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,15:07) Amen brother, Again no free will because we are led by the Spirit of God. Hi GM, We should be. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. But is it automatic? Gal5 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. nope

Yes brother Nick,
Is it called 'free will' why people are confused ?
When you are influed by some body or some thing and guided by him( that ) is it called 'free will' is it the definition of 'free will'?
You decide for yourself.
Adam

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,17:34)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,17:17) Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,15:07) Amen brother, Again no free will because we are led by the Spirit of God. Hi GM, We should be. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. But is it automatic? Gal5 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. nope Yes brother Nick, Is it called 'free will' why people are confused ? When you are influed by some body or some thing and guided by him( that ) is it called 'free will' is it the definition of 'free will'? You decide for yourself. Adam

GM

Yes it is the definition of “free will” to follow someone willingly!

[NickHassan]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,17:34)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,17:17) Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,15:07) Amen brother, Again no free will because we are led by the Spirit of God. Hi GM, We should be. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. But is it automatic? Gal5 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. nope Yes brother Nick, Is it called 'free will' why people are confused ? When you are influed by some body or some thing and guided by him( that ) is it called 'free will' is it the definition of 'free will'? You decide for yourself. Adam

Hi GM,
If will is completely free why is everyone of the world following the spirit of the air unwittingly?[Eph2]

Christ sets men free indeed.

But not all who are set free stay free.

Some go back to the mud of opinion and roll in it

[gollamudi]

Hi WJ,
If you really follow God without the influence of Holy Spirit then I can say you are having free will to follow God otherwise I don't agree with your definition. We do some thing not by our own but we try to follow what is already recoreded in our minds and hearts. That's why Paul says in Romans 3, there is no one who is righteous not even one that follows good all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are fallen beings and tend to follow our fallen nature not some thing good or righteous. That's why God says I will change their stony heart and give them soft(fleshy) heart and I will write my laws on their heart. What is the necessity for God do all these things if we really use our free will and follow Him without fail?
Please think over on these lines.
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2008,17:05)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,16:25) To All……. The Carnal mind (the one we are born with) IS a enemy of God (Not ) subject to the laws of God Neither (CAN) be. But some would not have you believe that, they by their own so-called (FREE WILL) are able to choose the right way on their own. Even though Jesus Showed that we need to put our (WILLS) to death Like He Did. Whosoever shall save HIS life will loose it and he who will lose His Life shall save it. Your Will is what controls your life, that why it says For God works in us both to will and do (HIS) good Pleasure. Only the arrogant think they by their so called Free Wills they control their Own destines. You will not find the word FREE WILL anywhere in scriptures. The whole idea of free will displaces, God the Father as Sovereign Creator of all things. And substitutes Man as His own God. Its one of the biggest lies ever put forth by the Apostasies Churches of our day. Ask yourself how could the kingdom of God come and all these separate (wills) be Done. It would be pure chaos to say the lest. NO only ONE WILL will be Done in GOD'S kingdom. The scripture says ” it is written in the volume of the book concerning me I come to do (THY WILL) “O” God.. And again Jesus said, never the less (NOT) my WILL but (THY) Will be done. So Jesus' will was against the will of God wasn't it but what did he do to that will (He put it death). So don't give me this So Called FREE WILL BULL. Looked like he know something about WILLS these modern Apostatized Churches Don't. If you understood that, there is,was, and always will be only One WILL that will be done, and the only way that can be done is for all other separate will to cease to exist. The proud Hate that idea of giving up there so called Free Wills which really are cause and effect Wills and not Free At all they just presume them to be , but in fact they are held prisoners of those so-called free wills, there is nothing free about them. Hi GB Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,16:25) Even though Jesus Showed that we need to put our (WILLS) to death Like He Did. You put your will to death because you freely chose to do it didnt you? Did God make you do it?

WJ….If God doesn't empower me to put my sins to death then i or you never would , But the New Nature moves us to resist sin and if we sin because sin remains in our bodies it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me. You have yet to answer where Jesus said (NO) man (CAN) come unto ME (except) the Father (DRAG) him. Please show us free will at work here then.

Here is a good example years ago i used to smoke and did for 14 years and i decided that it would Kill me if I did not quit, so i tried to , I would put nearly whole packs of cigarettes under the water and try to go as long as i could, but before the night was over i was looking for any snipe i could find , then would try again the next day, over and over this went on for a full year, then finely i realized i could not quit, So with a pack of cigarettes i Decided to pray and talk to God about it, I told him if He would not take the habit away I was not going to try to quite any longer but would continue to smoke till a died , and i really meant it,I got up from that prayer fully expecting to want another cigarette with in an Hour or so, but no desire came first one day them two and then a week and then a month and not so much as one withdrawal or desire to have a cigarette.

So my own will could not do it right, but God Did and guess what i didn't have to do any thing but ask. So you can sing your ideas of your own so-called free wills empowerments all you want, but i know it was Gods will that delivered me and with out that will I would still be smoking this day.

I have given you many scriptures that show there is not such thing as free will you have shown me nothing that even has the word free will there. Seeing that you believe it's all about free will then show us where thats at with regards to our salvation. or anything else for that matter. I have explained to you how Science and physiologists all agree that there is a cause for everything and there is no So-called free will anything. This has never ever been disproved but yet Modern so called “Christianity” cant except that fact. Why is that when all existing proof shows it to be true. Even Scripture proves it true.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,18:06)

Hi WJ, If you really follow God without the influence of Holy Spirit then I can say you are having free will to follow God otherwise I don't agree with your definition. We do some thing not by our own but we try to follow what is already recoreded in our minds and hearts. That's why Paul says in Romans 3, there is no one who is righteous not even one that follows good all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are fallen beings and tend to follow our fallen nature not some thing good or righteous. That's why God says I will change their stony heart and give them soft(fleshy) heart and I will write my laws on their heart. What is the necessity for God do all these things if we really use our free will and follow Him without fail? Please think over on these lines. Adam

GM

So since you have his Spirit and he has put his laws in your heart, then do yo ever sin?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,18:06)

Hi WJ, If you really follow God without the influence of Holy Spirit then I can say you are having free will to follow God otherwise I don't agree with your definition. We do some thing not by our own but we try to follow what is already recoreded in our minds and hearts. That's why Paul says in Romans 3, there is no one who is righteous not even one that follows good all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are fallen beings and tend to follow our fallen nature not some thing good or righteous. That's why God says I will change their stony heart and give them soft(fleshy) heart and I will write my laws on their heart. What is the necessity for God do all these things if we really use our free will and follow Him without fail? Please think over on these lines. Adam

Adam…….good post i agree with you , free will is just man (PRIDE) talking.

love and peace to you and yours……….gene

[gollamudi]

Hi brother,
Again you are openning for debate, this thread is not meant for this. We may bebate on the appropriate thread. Again I am being tempted by the old nature which is still in me as Paul says in Romans 7 it will be there till I die. But where is the question of free will here. I am having two natures now in me; one is the old sinful nature which draws me towards committing sin and other is Spirit nature which has been installed by God which guides me to follow God's will not to commit sin.
What else you need to disprove this another myth of 'free will'
Peace to you.
Adam

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,18:21)

Hi brother, Again you are openning for debate, this thread is not meant for this. We may bebate on the appropriate thread. Again I am being tempted by the old nature which is still in me as Paul says in Romans 7 it will be there till I die. But where is the question of free will here. I am having two natures now in me; one is the old sinful nature which draws me towards committing sin and other is Spirit nature which has been installed by God which guides me to follow God's will not to commit sin. What else you need to disprove this another myth of 'free will' Peace to you. Adam

GM

You have 2 natures is correct, so which one do you choose to follow?

It is your choice. God wll not make that choice for you.

When you sin, who did it, do you just blame it on your old nature? If you can not help it when you sin then how can it be sin? If God is in you then why do you sin? Isnt his Spirit greater than your carnal fleshly nature?

Hello!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2008,18:18)

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,18:06) Hi WJ, If you really follow God without the influence of Holy Spirit then I can say you are having free will to follow God otherwise I don't agree with your definition. We do some thing not by our own but we try to follow what is already recoreded in our minds and hearts. That's why Paul says in Romans 3, there is no one who is righteous not even one that follows good all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are fallen beings and tend to follow our fallen nature not some thing good or righteous. That's why God says I will change their stony heart and give them soft(fleshy) heart and I will write my laws on their heart. What is the necessity for God do all these things if we really use our free will and follow Him without fail? Please think over on these lines. Adam Adam…….good post i agree with you , free will is just man (PRIDE) talking. love and peace to you and yours……….gene

GB

No it is pride to not believe in the truth of the scriptures.

[gollamudi]

Hi WJ this is reply to your earlier post,
Yes my brother you have come to the point of hitting the nail. I agree with you I commit sin by choosing to follow my old nature. But my question is how I am doing that am I doing it by using my so called free will or by being tempted by my old sinful nature? There is no free will again if I am obeying God to do good again I am influenced and guided by the soft voice of the Holy Spirit. I am safe if I hear the soft voice of the Spirit that guides me to obey my father's will I don't think any free will is there again only an influenced will. IMO

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 28 2008,18:38)

Hi WJ this is reply to your earlier post, Yes my brother you have come to the point of hitting the nail. I agree with you I commit sin by choosing to follow my old nature. But my question is how I am doing that am I doing it by using my so called free will or by being tempted by my old sinful nature? There is no free will again if I am obeying God to do good again I am influenced and guided by the soft voice of the Holy Spirit. I am safe if I hear the soft voice of the Spirit that guides me to obey my father's will I don't think any free will is there again only an influenced will. IMO

GM

But did you freely choose to obey the Spirit of God or the sinfull nature.

Or did God make that choice for you?

You are hung up on 2 words, “Free will”.

You have just admitted that you chose to sin or not to, so you freely choose whether you admit it or not.

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