How is Jesus not God?

[gollamudi]

Come on Nick,
Word is expression of what is intended in the mind of a person which is also called plan.
Peter and John saw the glory in a vision not an existing glory (Matt 17:9).
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
Are you WITH your thoughts and plans or are they IN you?

[gollamudi]

Yes it can be infered either way no problem in that. I think we are going back to old story, it is better to stop here.
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
So you express words and they can make or ruin your life.
But thoughts and plans remain within.

[gollamudi]

Hi Nick, please gothrough this link
http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/
It is wonderful in deed.
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
Yes the Biblical Unitarians do go down that false road.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2008,15:05)

Hi GM, Yes the Biblical Unitarians do go down that false road.

Of course, I disagree that it is a “false” road. You cannot prove that it is or isn't. It's merely your opinion, Nick.

Adam Pastor, who's site GM has quoted is a very good one. I've chatted with Adam Pastor in depth and find him to be a dear brother in the Lord.

Anyway, if you look at the Greek word for Logos, it in fact does allow for it to be interpreted as a PLAN. See for yourself. Thanks.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Can you show me where it is used in scripture as PLAN?

[Not3in1]

Rather, look up the Greek word and see that it allows for it. Search scripture with this in mind.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
COUNSEL is PLAN 3 times in the NASB
eg
Acts 2.23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
BOULE
Number 1012
Transliteration:
boule {boo-lay'}
Word Origin:
from 1014
TDNT:
1:633,108
Part of Speech:
noun feminine
Usage in the KJV:
counsel 10, will 1, advise 5087 1

Total: 12
Definition:
counsel, purpose

So no use of LOGOS

[Not3in1]

Try the definition of LOGOS first.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
You mean from the concordance?
That is drawn from the bible so if it is in there but not used in the bible it suggests bias.

[Adam Pastor]

FYI, Examples of how logos is translated in the NT:

NASB
ACTS 1.1.  The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach,
KJV
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

NASB
ACTS 8.21.  “You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
KJV
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

NASB
ACTS 10.29.  “That is why I came without even raising any objection when I was sent for. So I ask for what reason you have sent for me.”
KJV
Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

NASB
ACTS 15.6.  The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.
KJV
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

NASB
ROM 9.28.  FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY.”
KJV
For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.  

NASB
1 PET. 3.15.  
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; KJV
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

[NickHassan]

Hi AP,
So no plan or thoughts?

[Not3in1]

Hey AP,

What a pleasure it is to see you here! I know you are busy, but we sure could use a good man of the Lord around here like yourself. I've missed your input.
I hope you consider staying and fighting the good fight. You are well qualified.

Good to see you.
Love,
Mandy

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….a word is the expression of thought < in the beginning was the expression of God's thought or (WORD) simple put an intelligent expressed from a prethought. So it also involves plan. A spoken word is what a person is and God word is what HE is, "and the word was God. God spoke everything into existence. God said (words) let there be light and there was light.

So in the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the (WORD),WAS GOD>

And God's word came to be in flesh , (the flesh man Jesus) How through the HOLY SPIRIT that was in Him, Jesus said the father was (IN) him, not that (HE) was the Father. The Father indwelt Jesus so the (WORD) was in the FLESH MAN JESUS, but that doesn't make Jesus the WORD HIMSELF> that's why he said the (Words) He spoke were not HIS words.
God the Father was in Him speaking through Him.

IMO…………..gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ June 03 2008,18:51)

FYI, Examples of how logos is translated in the NT: NASB ACTS 1.1.  The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach, KJV The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, NASB ACTS 8.21.  “You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. KJV Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. NASB ACTS 10.29.  “That is why I came without even raising any objection when I was sent for. So I ask for what reason you have sent for me.” KJV Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me? NASB ACTS 15.6.  The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. KJV And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. NASB ROM 9.28.  FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY.” KJV For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.   NASB 1 PET. 3.15.   but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; KJV But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

AP

What the scriptures you post prove is that the word “Logos” is not always translated as “A saying”, “Spoken word” and especially not a plan.

John 1:1 in light of these scriptures shows the Logos in John 1:1 is Yeshua.

The Father didn’t come in the flesh; neither did a spoken word or a plan.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word (logos) of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1John 1:1-3

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word (Logos) of God. Rev 19:13

John penned these scriptures. The book of Revelation was given to John before the Gospel of John was written.

John borrowed the term “Word” as a description of the pre-incarnate Yeshua. Why, because Yeshua had not come in the flesh and become a Son yet.

This is why he is the “Monogenes”, “Unique” “Only one of his kind.

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,,who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18

God is light. The Word preceded the natural light in Genesis.

Yeshua the Word who is the image of the invisible God, the “light of men', not the light of day, Spoke and there was light.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:3-5

So then verse 3 of John tells us that by or through Yeshua all things were made that was made.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

Without him nothing was made that was made.

He is not just the light of men, for in him was the light.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Yeshua could not have been the light of Genesis, for in him is the life which is the light of men.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 04 2008,04:54)

Nick……….a word is the expression of thought < in the beginning was the expression of God's thought or (WORD) simple put an intelligent expressed from a prethought. So it also involves plan. A spoken word is what a person is and God word is what HE is, "and the word was God. God spoke everything into existence. God said (words) let there be light and there was light. So in the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and  the (WORD),WAS GOD> And God's word came to be in flesh , (the flesh man Jesus) How through the HOLY SPIRIT that was in Him, Jesus said the father was (IN) him, not that (HE) was the Father. The Father indwelt Jesus so the (WORD) was in the FLESH MAN JESUS, but that doesn't make Jesus the WORD HIMSELF> that's why he said the (Words) He spoke were not HIS words. God the Father was in Him speaking through Him. IMO…………..gene

Hi GB,
God was not with His thoughts or plans.
God's Word was with Him even in the beginning.
Capable of independant thought, sent into the world
Jesus was anointed with God's Spirit at the Jordan as writ.
Thence the God Who was ever with him was now also in him.

We follow him.
Washed and anointed.
Men become reborn sons of God.

[Adam Pastor]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 03 2008,17:41)

Hey AP, What a pleasure it is to see you here!    I know you are busy, but we sure could use a good man of the Lord around here like yourself.  I've missed your input. I hope you consider staying and fighting the good fight.  You are well qualified. Good to see you. Love, Mandy

Oh Mandy

You're way toooo kind!!!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ June 04 2008,07:10)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 03 2008,17:41) Hey AP, What a pleasure it is to see you here!    I know you are busy, but we sure could use a good man of the Lord around here like yourself.  I've missed your input. I hope you consider staying and fighting the good fight.  You are well qualified. Good to see you. Love, Mandy Oh Mandy You're way toooo kind!!!

AP

Yes, it is good to see you. Though we do not agree on many things, I appreciate your information that very often shows your integrity to the truth even when it may not always seem be to your favour.

Blessings!

[Author]

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