How is Jesus not God?

[GeneBalthrop]

942767…………….Amen brother.

there is only One (true) God and One mediator between That (true) God and man, the (MAN) Jesus Christ.
Isn't it amazing how easy that is to understand and yet there are some who just can't get it, amazing indeed.

God has hid this understanding from the wise and has revealed unto babes , these trinitarians remind me of a dog chasing their tails, around and around they go in circles never catching on. While trying to profess themselves as being wise they have need of understanding basic truths.They can't even put simple and clear things together. But what can you say it Just haven't been given to them, so they use the package they have which is pure folly.

There false teachers will continue until the return of Jesus and He will expose and abolish the (LIE) with the brightness (truth) of His coming. And what is that (LIE), it's that Jesus sits in the temple of God as a deity the Almighty God Himself who created the Earth and every thing in it.

So while we fight these false teachers we need to understand these teaching will continue (UNTIL) the return of Jesus Christ.

Peace and love to the Israel of GOD………..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Paul said there are many gods. Men create gods for themselves every day. Their deities include money and fame. They worship men, women, themselves and angels. Harleys and sport, you name it.

But for us there is one true God, the Father.
All His Sons worship Him.

[942767]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 26 2008,13:10)

942767…………….Amen brother. there is only One (true) God and  One mediator between That (true) God and man, the (MAN) Jesus Christ. Isn't it amazing how easy that is to understand and yet there are some who just can't get it, amazing indeed. God has hid this understanding from the wise and has revealed unto babes , these trinitarians remind me of a dog chasing their tails, around and around they go in circles never catching on. While trying to profess themselves as being wise they have need of understanding basic truths.They can't even put simple and clear things together. But what can you say it Just haven't been given to them, so they use the package they have which is pure folly. There false teachers will continue until the return of Jesus and He will expose and abolish the (LIE)  with the brightness (truth) of His coming. And what is that (LIE), it's that Jesus sits in the temple of God as a deity the Almighty God Himself who created the Earth and every thing in it. So while we fight these false teachers we need to understand these teaching will continue (UNTIL) the return of Jesus Christ. Peace and love to the Israel of GOD………..gene

Hi Gene:

My prayer is that we will all come into unity. In reality it is very simple and straightforward. Although there are some things that may be difficult to understand in the bible, the fact there is only “One God” and that Jesus is God's Only Begotten Son and His Christ, is a man and not God, should not be difficult to understand. God has plainly revealed this to us through the scriptures.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Strictly speaking it says FOR US there is one God.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick and 942767 ……………. Amen. Only One True God.

peace to you all…………gene

[gollamudi]

Hi Gene,
Amen brother. And there is One Lord who is above all, that is Jesus the Christ (Messiah).

Hi brother Gene can you explain the verse Heb 1:10 often quoted by the trinitarian to prove Jesus as creator?
Peace to you all
Adam

[Worshipping Jesus]

Here is an excellent exegesis on Hebrews 1:10.

Blessings  

[GeneBalthrop]

gollamudi………..I you look up Heb 1: 7-10 in a accurate Greek translation it will read….> but to the son he says, God is you throne from age to age; A scepter of righeousness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God (YOUR GOD) has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions, and You Lord in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the works of your hand.

The Lord being discussed is the Lord God Almighty , not the Lord Jesus Christ. or we would have a contradiction of scriptures that show that the LORD GOD created the heavens alone and He even said BY MYSELF. So if we take that into consideration we realize
the Lord being discussed here is the Father.

Remember where King David said the Lord said unto My Lord, sit on my right side until (I) make your enemies your footstool. The way i understand this is the Lord God said unto my Lord Jesus Christ sit on my right side until (I) (LORD GOD) make your enemies your footstool.

The one Lord who is above all is The Father, who is the Lord God Almighty, and next to Him is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is closest to the Father in Power and majesty.

Remember also Adam it says “the (sum) of Gods word is truth”, we have to put all of it together to get a clear picture. And remember trinitarians have tweaked the text to try to develop the Idea of a triune Godhead. When you started to put all scriptures together you began to question the false teachings of the trinity, so don't get stuck by one or two verses always remember “the (SUM) of God's word is truth.

It's not that i am worried about you, i already know God is with you or you couldn't have come out of their false teachings.

Love and peace to you and yours…………gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Satan is called in scripture the god of this world. There are many gods according to Paul but for us there is one God, the Father.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2008,03:17)

Here is an excellent exegesis on Hebrews 1:10. Blessings

Hi Bro. WJ:

There is alot of assumption in the exegesis:

For example brother Isaiah states:

Quote

Psalm 102:25 is a verse quite obviously written about YHWH, but according to the Hebrews’ writer it was, in reality, an utterance spoken by the Father to the Son

“According to the Hebrews' writer it was, IN REALITY, and utterance spoken by the Father to the Son”?

Maybe you can explain. Thanks.

God Bless

[gollamudi]

Hi Gene, I am thankful for your nice explanation of Heb1:7-10.
Infact I understood the verse in the same way you have explained above. I wanted only confirmation from you. Our sister Shania also wanted clarification on this portion. That is the reason behind asking you for that.
Peace to you all
Adam

[Proclaimer]

Quote (gollamudi @ May 27 2008,01:56)

Hi Gene, Amen brother. And there is One Lord who is above all, that is Jesus the Christ (Messiah). Hi brother Gene can you explain the verse Heb 1:10 often quoted by the trinitarian to prove Jesus as creator? Peace to you all Adam

God created all things through him and for him.

The Word was with God in the beginning.

[gollamudi]

Quote (t8 @ May 27 2008,18:59)

God created all things through him and for him. The Word was with God in the beginning.

Hi t8,
What do you mean by quoting these lines here?
Do you want to say that Jesus was the 'word' that was existing with the Father in the beginning through which He created the the worlds?
Here only we are differing in understanding. One side you say there was only one God in the beginning and otherside you want to prove that Jesus was the word existing with that one God in the beginning. If that is your understanding then the 'word' which was in the beginning was also called God in Jn1:1, there by you are making two Gods existing in the beginning which can not be agreed by any non-trinitarian.
Please understand that there was no pre-existence to Jesus prior to his birth through Mary (Gal 4:4-5 ; 1 Pet1:20). The word mentioned in Jn 1:1 was not a separate person from God the Father but His own word that was conceived in His mind for a purpose and spoken to create the worlds. Also read Ps 33:6 & Is 55:8-11. God sent His word through His Holy Spirit into the womb of Mary to manifest in flesh that is Jesus the Christ, the Son of God.
It is so simple to understand that God created this universe through His word in the beginning and the same word has been manifested in the flesh of Jesus.
Peace to you all
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi Gm,
Was Mary just a surrogate mother or was Jesus conceived?

[Proclaimer]

What am I saying?

I am quoting scripture and letting the reader understand it for themselves.

[Proclaimer]

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Micah 5:2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Philippians 2:5-11
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

[gollamudi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,21:36)

Hi Gm, Was Mary just a surrogate mother or was Jesus conceived?

Hi Nick,
I mean, Mary conceived Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Mary was not a surrogate mother as you think. I think you believe in Jesus' pre-extistence, for you it may be agreeable but not with me.
Hi T8,
Why do quote simply verses without explaining them?
There can be different meaning for the different reader.
Peace to you.
Adam

[Proclaimer]

Quote (gollamudi @ May 27 2008,21:58)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,21:36) Hi Gm, Was Mary just a surrogate mother or was Jesus conceived? Hi Nick, I mean, Mary conceived Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Mary was not a surrogate mother as you think. I think you believe in Jesus' pre-extistence, for you it may be agreeable but not with me. Hi T8, Why do quote simply verses without explaining them? There can be different meaning for the different reader. Peace to you. Adam

They explain themselves. If they don't mean what they say, then I would like to know why. But might be better to engage that one in the preexistence thread.

They say that:

[TimothyVI]

Quote (t8 @ May 27 2008,21:49)

Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. John 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” Revelation 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” Micah 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.” 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Hebrews 1:1-2 1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. Philippians 2:5-11 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Hi T8,
It sounds like you, as do many people, believe that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament.
Using verses like Col 1:17 and John 1:3 to support that belief.

In Heb 1:1 was the God that spoke to our forefathers Jesus or the Father?
If the God of the O.T. was Jesus then why does Heb 1:2 go on to say “ but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son?

This is an honest question that I hope you have an answer for.
I still do not understand how Jesus was the God of the O.T. Or really existed before he was born of Mary for that matter.

Tim

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……..non of what you quoted would prevent Jesus from having come into existence at the time of His berth from Mary. Think about it does any of what you quoted specifically say Jesus was alive before his berth. Jesus could have just as easly met He was in God's plan before Abraham existed.

If Jesus said before Abraham i am, He did not say He was alive did He, and if he were alive why did he say Abraham looked forward to his day and saw it, when in fact he would have been alive all ready.

Where the word in John 1:3 is (through) it could just as easily be (For) because they all come from the same Greek word.

Tim, makes a good point please give us a answer.

think about it T8…………..peace to you and yours…………..gene

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