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Quote (Oxy @ June 26 2010,16:08) I believe what is written in the Scriptures. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Face of God; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said to his wife, We shall surely die because we have seen God.
Exo 19:11 And be ready for the third day. For the third day Jehovah will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai.
Exo 24:9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as the essence of the heavens for clearness.I know it is written that no man can see God and live. This tells me two things. The first is that it is possible to see God, but it will cost you your life.
The second thing is, according to the experience that Moses had, it is impossible to see God in His glory and live, but God is capable of appearing as a man, as has been proven by the Old Testament Scriptures quoted above.
Hi Oxy,Does that mean that you don't believe John 5:37 and 1 John 4:12?
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another,
God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2010,18:35) Quote (Oxy @ June 26 2010,16:08) I believe what is written in the Scriptures. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Face of God; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said to his wife, We shall surely die because we have seen God.
Exo 19:11 And be ready for the third day. For the third day Jehovah will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai.
Exo 24:9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as the essence of the heavens for clearness.I know it is written that no man can see God and live. This tells me two things. The first is that it is possible to see God, but it will cost you your life.
The second thing is, according to the experience that Moses had, it is impossible to see God in His glory and live, but God is capable of appearing as a man, as has been proven by the Old Testament Scriptures quoted above.
Hi Oxy,Does that mean that you don't believe John 5:37 and 1 John 4:12?
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another,
God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
I believe that was true for the people He was talking to at the time.Quote (Oxy @ June 26 2010,16:46) Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2010,18:35) Quote (Oxy @ June 26 2010,16:08) I believe what is written in the Scriptures. Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Face of God; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said to his wife, We shall surely die because we have seen God.
Exo 19:11 And be ready for the third day. For the third day Jehovah will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai.
Exo 24:9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as the essence of the heavens for clearness.I know it is written that no man can see God and live. This tells me two things. The first is that it is possible to see God, but it will cost you your life.
The second thing is, according to the experience that Moses had, it is impossible to see God in His glory and live, but God is capable of appearing as a man, as has been proven by the Old Testament Scriptures quoted above.
Hi Oxy,Does that mean that you don't believe John 5:37 and 1 John 4:12?
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another,
God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
I believe that was true for the people He was talking to at the time.
Hi Oxy,So the people that he was speaking to hadn't seen God 'at any time',
but people in the “Old Testament” had seen God; is that what you mean?Noone has seen [the face of] God at anytime except those that are in heaven.
Only sinless ones can look upon God's face and there are no sinful ones in God's heaven, in the eyesight of God for all is pure righteousness in his throne room.
God always does his work through a third party.
When God 'appears' anywhere on earth, even the mountains melt awaym and the earth is rent, torn apart, mighty winds and thunderous turmoils in the skies, planets move apart and galaxies collide…therefore God does not show himself directly else devastation would result.
Remember that man, flesh and blood, is more fragile than a mountain, and if, even the mountaun bows down to God Amighty, what would happen to soft weak flesh?
Even Adam did not see the face of God and he was 'perfect man' at the beginning. Even Jesus didn't 'see' the face of God but only 'spoke to him'.
Steven only saw Jesus 'STANDING' at the righthand of God', he didn't see God['s face].
Moses did not see God's face and yet here we read that God would 'show himself' to Moses' but he meant, His Power and Glory' and thatnis certainly what Moses saw and even then God 'shielded him' else he would not have lived.
Quote (JustAskin @ June 27 2010,05:44) Noone has seen [the face of] God at anytime except those that are in heaven. Only sinless ones can look upon God's face and there are no sinful ones in God's heaven, in the eyesight of God for all is pure righteousness in his throne room.
God always does his work through a third party.
When God 'appears' anywhere on earth, even the mountains melt awaym and the earth is rent, torn apart, mighty winds and thunderous turmoils in the skies, planets move apart and galaxies collide…therefore God does not show himself directly else devastation would result.
Remember that man, flesh and blood, is more fragile than a mountain, and if, even the mountaun bows down to God Amighty, what would happen to soft weak flesh?
Even Adam did not see the face of God and he was 'perfect man' at the beginning. Even Jesus didn't 'see' the face of God but only 'spoke to him'.
Steven only saw Jesus 'STANDING' at the righthand of God', he didn't see God['s face].
Moses did not see God's face and yet here we read that God would 'show himself' to Moses' but he meant, His Power and Glory' and thatnis certainly what Moses saw and even then God 'shielded him' else he would not have lived.
So how do you explain these verses?Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Face of God; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said to his wife, We shall surely die because we have seen God.
Exo 19:11 And be ready for the third day. For the third day Jehovah will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai.
Exo 24:9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as the essence of the heavens for clearness.Oxy,
You must be an amazingly simple minded person.
I guess, understandably, you have taken these references as literal. They were mistaken in their assessment, just as you are in your restatement.
Jacob claimed to have been at the 'Gateway to Heaven' at a place called 'Luz'. Are you going to say that we only need to go to Luz, a real place in the Middle East, and we can climb Jacob's Ladder to get to Heaven??
God Himself always uses and agent to carry out his word. Whether a 'messenger' angel or one of His Principal Sons, the Princes, like Michael and Gabriel, or his special angel, 'The Angel of God'.
Even the Burning bush. The Apostles state in Scriptures that it was and Angel speaking the words of God. Yet the old testament…alludes…to God speaking… Is this puzzling to you? Why?
Does a 'Headmaster' walk around the school administering justice, law and order? No, he sends his deputies and administrators (a flawed human system may require him to do his own work but think of a 'perfect' system) If the headmaster had to come out of his office to carry out his own orders it would mean that all his ministers had failed…
Does the Queen of England carry her own bags? Why not. Does she manage Parliament, no, why not?
Does a Field Marshall go down to the battlefield? No. Why?
Does God walk on earth among flesh? No. Why?
Oxy,
Why are you stubborn and want to believe the impossible?
If anyone of flesh were to see God Amighty in the face the awesomeness would instantly vapourise them…and God does not desire that his creation should be dessimated for that reason.
Oxy, you are un danger of calling God, Jesus and his Apostles, liars.
Oxy, are you feeling spiritually suicidal?
Quote (Oxy @ June 27 2010,20:31) So how do you explain these verses? Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Face of God; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said to his wife, We shall surely die because we have seen God.
Exo 19:11 And be ready for the third day. For the third day Jehovah will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai.
Exo 24:9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as the essence of the heavens for clearness.
Hi Oxy,Its better to look at the sun with sunglasses on or youl be blinded! So I think these verses you quote are the son as the messenger or often an angel representing God,
No-one has ever seen God but the son has, when he came in the flesh, he spoke for God, he'd learnt all off his Father, He showed us God “with our sunglasses on” and was more like us than we realise, minus the sin.. we are made in his image but we sin.
Kar……….Where doe it say Jesus has seen God at, Then that would make John a liar because he said No one has ever seen GOD.
Show us scripture that says Jesus has actually seen God. In my bible Jesus said no man has seen God, but the son has disclosed or explained him. When he said no man that had to include him also right?
peace and love……………………..gene
Hi Gene,
Quote Kar……….Where doe it say Jesus has seen God at, Then that would make John a liar because he said No one has ever seen GOD. Show us scripture that says Jesus has actually seen God. In my bible Jesus said no man has seen God, but the son has disclosed or explained him. When he said no man that had to include him also right?
John 6:46..”not that any one hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath seen the Father.”
Karmarie…………… you have misquoted John 6:45 …….> It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of (or) By God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of (or) from the Father, comes unto me. …..46, Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is (OF) God, he hath seen the Father>
Question is who are they that are taught by God and Have Learned from Him. While Jesus certainly has, but these scripture shows a far greater expansion of the work the Father does in People.
Jesus went on to say ..> Verily verily, i say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life. Why is that what did Jesus understand about God that made him say that, was it not he recognized that GOD was working (IN) those who truly recognized Him as with Peter, and that this power of GOD in them was eternal life , the father himself was present in then Just as He was present in Jesus.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Karmarie………….I believe no one can literally see GOD the FATHER, except though the eye of the mind, not now or ever will, Because GOD is Spirit and no one can see Spirit, it can only be explained as Jesus did about the Father. IMO
peace and love………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2010,14:36) Karmarie…………… you have misquoted John 6:45 …….> It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of (or) By God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of (or) from the Father, comes unto me. …..46, Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is (OF) God, he hath seen the Father> Question is who are they that are taught by God and Have Learned from Him. While Jesus certainly has, but these scripture shows a far greater expansion of the work the Father does in People.
Jesus went on to say ..> Verily verily, i say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life. Why is that what did Jesus understand about God that made him say that, was it not he recognized that GOD was working (IN) those who truly recognized Him as with Peter, and that this power of GOD in them was eternal life , the father himself was present in then Just as He was present in Jesus.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Gene, this is what most commentaries say (not my usual method but anyway..
Adam Clarkes Commentary on John 6:36-46
They shall be all taught of God.
This explains the preceding verse. God teaches a man to know himself, that, finding his need of salvation, he may flee to lay hold on the hope which his heavenly Father has set before him in the Gospel. God draws men by his love, and by showing them what his love has done for them. Fear repels, but love attracts. He who is ever preaching the terrors of the law, and representing God as a vindictive judge, will never bring sinners to him. They are afraid of this terrible God: but they love him, who so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him might not perish, but have everlasting life.Verse 46. Not that any man hath seen the Father
He does not teach men by appearing personally before them, or by any other outward voice than that of his word and messengers; but he teaches by his Spirit. This teaching from God implies: 1. That they shall have proper instruction. 2.
That they shall comprehend it; for, when God teaches, there is no delay in learning. And, 3. That this teaching should be by the influence of the Holy Ghost upon their minds.
He which is of God That is, Christ alone: neither Moses nor any of the prophets had ever seen God: Jesus, who lay in the bosom of the Father, HE saw and revealed him, chap. i. 18.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2010,15:01) Karmarie………….I believe no one can literally see GOD the FATHER, except though the eye of the mind, not now or ever will, Because GOD is Spirit and no one can see Spirit, it can only be explained as Jesus did about the Father. IMO peace and love………………………gene
Yeah I believe that.
peace and love to you and yours also gene.
To all,
The word “see” has more than one definition even if spoken literally. If used figuratively it can even mean more things. In this case I looked up the various definitions of “see” at Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary and I though the one that reads “To perceive the meaning and importance of” to be the best fit for John 6:46.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (kerwin @ June 28 2010,23:35) To all, The word “see” has more than one definition even if spoken literally. If used figuratively it can even mean more things. In this case I looked up the various definitions of “see” at Merriam Webster's Online Dictionary and I though the one that reads “To perceive the meaning and importance of” to be the best fit for John 6:46.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Hi Kerwin,Perceive is a Good definition of “see” in reference to God.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgKerwin ……..Yes to percieve is a good definition for see. The seven eyes of God are what he uses to see or percieve all things through these distinct perceptions guide his thoughts and they are attached with powers, Jesus now has these seven eyes or perceptions with power on Him and these are the seven spirits of God we are told.
peace and love…………………gene
Quote (JustAskin @ June 27 2010,21:11) Oxy, You must be an amazingly simple minded person.
I guess, understandably, you have taken these references as literal. They were mistaken in their assessment, just as you are in your restatement.
Jacob claimed to have been at the 'Gateway to Heaven' at a place called 'Luz'. Are you going to say that we only need to go to Luz, a real place in the Middle East, and we can climb Jacob's Ladder to get to Heaven??
God Himself always uses and agent to carry out his word. Whether a 'messenger' angel or one of His Principal Sons, the Princes, like Michael and Gabriel, or his special angel, 'The Angel of God'.
Even the Burning bush. The Apostles state in Scriptures that it was and Angel speaking the words of God. Yet the old testament…alludes…to God speaking… Is this puzzling to you? Why?
Does a 'Headmaster' walk around the school administering justice, law and order? No, he sends his deputies and administrators (a flawed human system may require him to do his own work but think of a 'perfect' system) If the headmaster had to come out of his office to carry out his own orders it would mean that all his ministers had failed…
Does the Queen of England carry her own bags? Why not. Does she manage Parliament, no, why not?
Does a Field Marshall go down to the battlefield? No. Why?
Does God walk on earth among flesh? No. Why?
Oxy,
Why are you stubborn and want to believe the impossible?
If anyone of flesh were to see God Amighty in the face the awesomeness would instantly vapourise them…and God does not desire that his creation should be dessimated for that reason.
Oxy, you are un danger of calling God, Jesus and his Apostles, liars.
Oxy, are you feeling spiritually suicidal?
I can feel the love… thanks.You are missing so much by limiting God!!
Quote (karmarie @ June 27 2010,23:53) Quote (Oxy @ June 27 2010,20:31) So how do you explain these verses? Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Face of God; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said to his wife, We shall surely die because we have seen God.
Exo 19:11 And be ready for the third day. For the third day Jehovah will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai.
Exo 24:9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as the essence of the heavens for clearness.
Hi Oxy,Its better to look at the sun with sunglasses on or youl be blinded! So I think these verses you quote are the son as the messenger or often an angel representing God,
No-one has ever seen God but the son has, when he came in the flesh, he spoke for God, he'd learnt all off his Father, He showed us God “with our sunglasses on” and was more like us than we realise, minus the sin.. we are made in his image but we sin.
I think you are entirely wrong. What Son are you talking about? Jesus? Where in Scripture does it say that God was a Father until Jesus was born? There are many Scriptures that tell of the Word of God coming and speaking to people, but no mention of God's Son prior to the Word being made flesh, ie His birth.
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