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Hi KW,
Fruit is a natural product of the tree.
A thorn bush cannot produce any grapes.
But it is not the striving of man that gives good fruit.
Be still and know that I am God.
Kerwin…..NO I HAVE NOT READ THAT “THE FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT ARE THE WORKS OF THE LAW OF LOVE”. I HAVE READ WHERE , “Love workes no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law”.
The fruit of the spirit is the fulfilling of “the” law Which is the ten commandments. But the fruit of the spirit are not “WORKS” OF “LAW” (forced compliance) LAW WORKS “wrath”, and is made for the sinner and the ungodly.
1 Ti 1:9….Knowing this that the law is not made for a rightious man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for ungodly and prophane, for murderers offathers, and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contary to sound doctrine.
Now kerwin if you read just before this, you will see how PAUL CHANGES REFERENCE FROM THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, TO REFERENCING TO THE LAW. PUTTING THE DEFINETE ARTICAL “the” in front of the word law, makes appear like Paul is talking about the commandments, but if you will look it up you will find that the definite artical “THE” is not there where Paul says “by works of the law”, it should read by “works of law” in ROMANS, meaning the way law “ITSELF” works, Paul IS not referencing the commandments at all there, but is strickly speaking about LAW AND HOW IT WOKS AND WHO IT WAS MADE FOR. The commandments always existed, the LAW came into existence 490 years after the promise to Abraham, the law was addided, but the commandmnts were for ever and are the embodiement of love. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
Kerwin…..Where did you ever get that workmeans “forced” compliance at. I looked and have not found that meaning for the word work no where brother. The word law is defined as a system of rules that is specific to a country or community that are “ENFORCED”.
Did you see the word “ENFORCED” there in the meaning of the word LAW.
SO why are they “ENFORCED”?, is it not so people will comply with them.The original ten commandments were turn into LAWS, “enforced compliance”, at mount seni in order that GOD’S COMMANDMENTS to be obeyed. The enforcement was so sever that even if you went out to gather wood for a fire on the sabbath you would be stoned to death. Fear had become the movating force for obediance, because the love of GOD WAS NOT IN THEM, so they had to be forced to obey, Which worked through the mediam of fear.
Therefore Paul said by WORKS OF LAW (the “way” law works) no flesh would be justified before God WHY? Because forced compliance can never make our hearts right with GOD. It takes tne spirit of God to accomplish that.
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene.
Gene,
I dropped the not and did catch the error when I reread my post.
My point is works are not forced compliance and you were saying they were. I looked over your post and I was mistaken it is the works of the law you are claiming are forced compliance.
Even in the Law of Moses the compliance was voluntary as if God had forced them to comply there would have been no disobedience.
Before a person receives the Spirit to live by their works cannot come from the Spirit; instead they have the their own power to rely on. That is works based on human power vs works based on the power of God.
Kerwin……If they were voluntarily, then wh stone a man to death because he was gathering fire wood on the sabbath day. When the commandments became LAW, they were no longer voluntary KERWIN. There was penalties attached to every one of them for violating them.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Gene,
Being stoned for a crime is a cost. A person who commits a mortal sin thus voluntarily commits the crime with full knowledge of the cost will be if they get caught. If a law written on stone compelled people to do right then we would write our laws on stone and people could not choose to do wrong. Instead they just tell a person if they break a law then they pay the just cost of violating that law.God did not price every disobedience but only some. Some are just commands to do or not do a particular thing with no cost associated.
I have the idea you are being libertarian on this even though you believe in the lack of free will. How you do not see the contradiction between the two I have no idea. I do know that the that the gospel is not a libertarian message.
Kerwin……..Every sin had it just recompense. A LAW IS NOT JUST A COMMANDMENT, IT IS A ENFORCED COMMANDMENT, WHERE THERE IS NO LAW THERE IS NO SIN, ACCORDING TO THE APOSTLE PAUL .
LAW CAUSES FEAR AND FEAR CASUSES OBEDIANCE TO LAW, an example let’s say we took away speed law enforcement would people still drive in accordiance to the prema facia “posted” speed laws most would not because they would not fear getting a ticket. FEAR HAS TO BE ATTACHED TO A LAW THROUGH ENFOREMENT IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE A LAW. BUT WE ARE MADE RIGHT “APART” FROM THE “LAW”, THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, A LAW ,ANY LAW CAN NEVER MAKE A PERSON RIGHT IN THEIR HEART, IT TAKESGOD THE FATHER TO RECREATE US RIGHT IN OUR HEARTS. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
Nick……ON THE ONE HAND YOU SAY “YES”, THEN PROCEED TO ACCUSE ME OF ERROR, THE SPIRIT WORKING IN YOU ALWAYS SURFACES NICK, That is one thing you have never been able to hide. What i have said, i stand by as scripturally accurate. If you can PROVE it in ACCURATE then post it, or it’s best to just not say a thing. Ignorant slanderious trask talk COMES FROM THE SELF and edifys nothing but yourself. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
Nick……EXCUSE ME!, I ONLY CHANGE MY IDEA TO ALINE WITH SCRIPTURES, BUT NOT “YOUR” IDEAS or INTURPITIONS OF WHAT “YOU” ASSUME SCRIPTURE IS SAYING, UNLESS THEY ALINE WITH SCRIPTURES, WHICH SOME DO AND OTHERS DON’T.
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
Gene,
There is no sin where there is no law because you cannot be a lawbreaker without a law to break. The fruit of the flesh may still exist but it is not called sin. The Law reveals sin for what it is.
On the flip side if no one sins then there is no need for the law as everyone does by nature what would be written in the law.
Neither idea support your libertarian point of view.
Kerwin…..AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG, SCRIPTURE TELLS US THAT SIN INTERED INTO THE WORLD BY ADAM, THE LAW WAS NOT TILL 490 YEARS AFTER THE PROMISE TO ABRAHAM, ALL TRANSGRESSION OF GOD’S COMMANDMENTS IS SIN, (MISSING THE MARK) THE LAW CAME AS A MEANS OF FORCING THEM ON PEOPLE (FORCED COMPLIANCE) IS WHAT LAW IS. IT WAS INSTITUTED BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS OF GODS COMMANDMENTS . What does any of this have to do with my “supposed”, libertarian views.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
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