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David, all we have concerning the N.T. is copies of copies of copies, and there is evidence in the the New Testament writings themseves as there was at one time an original N.T. written in Hebrew, as there is too many quotations from the Old testament in the Desciples Epistles, as there is arround 300 hundred of them.
The Romans destroyed most everything related to ” Jewish ” writings, and you can see and find evidence in the Greek New Testament as to bias against the Jewish Hebrew culture.
For example, in the English translations you will read phrases such as “” The Jews Passover “” or “” The Jews Feast of Tabernacles “”, but when you read the Old Testament scriptures in ( Lev.23) they are called YHWH'S FEASTS, not the Jews feasts.
Also, in ( Acts 12:4) the pagan Easter was substituted for the Passover in the K.J.V., there is much proof in the writings of the New Testament proving the bias of the Latin Catholic translators in translating those texts.
The Greeks and Romans wanted a ” Saviour”, but not a ” Jewish “ one.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 17 2005,14:41) The following points seem to suggest that Greek was the original language of the NT books or at least some of the books. Mark 5:41
“And taking hold of the child's hand, He said to her, 'Talithe koum,' which is, being translated,
'Little girl, I say to you, rise up!'”If these are the original words of Mark, then it is clear that he was writing in Greek (or another language besides Aramaic) because he found it necessary to translate the Aramaic so his reader could understand.
Acts 26:14
We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'Paul says he heard Christ's speak in Aramaic. Would that even be written if Acts itself was written in Aramaic?
Also consider the book of the Revelation which was written “to the seven churches which are in Asia.” All seven churches are in Greek cities. The Roman province of Asia is today's Turkey. Before the Romans controlled that area, Greek people had lived there for centuries. John received and likely wrote the Revelation while in exile on an island just off the coast of Asia. The people to whom John wrote were Greek. There is no reason why John would have written in any language other than Greek, or is there?
Furthermore, John wrote Jesus' words, “I am Alpha and Omega.” That is Greek is it not? Or was it in reference to the first and last letter of the Hebrew alphabet originally?
Could Jesus speak Greek while on earth? He certainly lived and ministered in a multilingual culture. This fact is easily seen from the sign Pilate posted on the cross. It was in Greek, Latin, and Aramaic.
Hi t8,
Where is your Acts 26 verse from as mine [NASB]says Hebrew rather than Aramaic? ? NIVThe predominant language was Hebrew( Luke 23:38; John 5:2; John 19:13-20; Acts 21:40; Acts 22:2; Acts 26:14; Rev.9:11; Rev.16:16), however, Aramaic is like a sister language of Hebrew.
We read that Peter and John were untaught, unschooled, illiterate, ordinary men. “Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Yahshua, (Acts 4:13).
Impetuous Peter was, along with James and John, a fisherman. Peter and the others who became fishers of men hardly would be expected to write their epistles in a second language, but would logically write in Hebrew, their native tongue. Greek might be more prevalent in cosmopolitan trading and business centers such as Caesaria than in Galilee, but it was neither the language of the Apostles nor of the Temple.
Greek is a very precise language, while Hebrew is picturesque and poetic, using similies, metaphors, and allegories (The Hebrew Bible contains only 8,198 different words-by contrast the English language includes more than 550,000 words.) Renowned Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote that although he far exceeded those of his own nation in Jewish learning, he could not pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness, and that “our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations…”(Antiq.of Jews I,v).
A peculiar discrepancy within the New Testament is this: if the New Testament were originally composed in Greek, why does it contain many untranslated Hebrew words? Why did the writers go to all the trouble of preserving Hebrew terms in their Greek writings?
The only valid explanation is that the Greek language had no equivalent words for these uniquely Hebrew terms taken from an original Hebrew text and translated into Greek.
These Hebrew survivals attest to a Hebrew original – and a Greek (and English) translation that brought them across unchanged from the Hebrew.
The following HEBREW words are included in the King James New Testament, as taken from the Greek translation.
Abba (“dearest father”); Messiah (“Anointed one”); Rabbi (“my teacher”); hosanna (“Save! We beseech”); Amen (suggests trust, faithfulness); talitha cumi (“maid arise”); ephphatha (“be opened”); corban (“a dedicated gift”); Sabbath (“repose”, “desist” from exertion); Satan (“adversary”); mammon (“riches”); raca (“to spit in one's face”); cummin (herb); Maranatha (“Master, I pray you overthrow”); Passover (“pass over”); Emmanuel (title meaning “El with us”); Eli lama Sabachthani (“my El, why have you forsaken me?”)
Even more compelling evidence for a New Testament originally composed in Hebrew is found in the clear Hebrew word order extant in the New Testament. Many sentences contain the verb-noun reversal common to Hebrew and Semitic languages.
Scholars also have long recognized that the grammar of the New Testament does not befit good Greek, but does reflect excellent Hebrew grammar.
In addition, many Hebraic idioms and expressions are scattered throughout the New Testament. Had the original been composed in Greek, these sayings would have been put into Greek form and expression.
For example, what did Yahshua and others mean by statements that don't make good sense in Greek (Or English) but are powerful in the Hebrew? Such expressions include: “If your eye is evil” (Matt. 6:23); “let the dead bury the dead” (Matt. 8:22); “for if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry” (Luke 23:31), and “thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head” (Paul in Rom. 12:20).
Numerous examples of Semitic poetry and reverse couplets (chiasmus) are dead giveaways to the original Hebrew of these books. Hebrew is also distinct for its colorful descriptions of simple, common acts.
For example, a beautiful expression in classical Hebrew is found in (Luke 16:23): “…he lift up his eyes…and saw…” Other sayings peculiar to Hebrew and found in the Evangels include: “Lay these sayings in your years,” “Cast out your name as evil,” “He set his face to go,” and “The appearance of his countenance was altered.”
Whole sentences or paragraphs in the New Testament can be retranslated word for word back into the Hebrew. ( Luke 10:5-6) is just one example: “And into whatsoever house you enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.” This passage is a synthesis of vivid Hebrew idioms unknown in the Greek.
Many linguists and historians now attest that the Evangels, the Acts, and the Book of Revelation were composed in Hebrew. Early “church fathers” validate that the Book of Matthew was originally written in Hebrew (see Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History 3:39; Irenaeus' Against Heresies 3:1; Epiphanius' Panarion 20:9:4; Jerome's Lives of Illustrious Men 3 and De Vir. 3:36).
Hebrew was the language of Judah and Galilee in the first century. Its sister language, Aramaic, remained the secondary tongue and the language of commerce. Jews in this area were not Greek-speaking. Their revulsion to the Greeks and the Greek language derives from the fact that the Maccabees had just defeated the Greeks and driven them and their pagan defilement from the Temple and Palestine.
This is why I quoted.
The eminent first century Jewish historian, priest, and scholar Josephus admitted that he could not speak Greek fluently and that the Jews frowned on any Jew who did.
“I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understanding the elements of the Greek language although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own language, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness: for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations” (Antiquities, 20:11:2).
There are just too many Hebrew words and Hebrew Phrases and idioms in the N.T. for it not to be originally written in the Desciples own native language.
Hi Eliyah,
Quote Hebrew was the language of Judah and Galilee in the first century. Its sister language, Aramaic, remained the secondary tongue and the language of commerce. Jews in this area were not Greek-speaking. Their revulsion to the Greeks and the Greek language derives from the fact that the Maccabees had just defeated the Greeks and driven them and their pagan defilement from the Temple and Palestine. I'm not sure that this can be claimed quite so assertively. Most Near East historians will say that Aramaic was the lingua franca of the entire Middle East region, including Palestine, while Greek was the lingua franca of Egypt, Asia Minor and the West. This aside, the Jews of the time seem very well studied in Greek philosophy for a people who were supposed to despise the Greeks, and the most famous and patriotic Jewish historian known today, Josephus, quite definitely wrote in Greek – just to raise a few problems.
Quote (Eliyah @ Oct. 07 2005,10:02) There are just too many Hebrew words and Hebrew Phrases and idioms in the N.T. for it not to be originally written in the Desciples own native language.
Hi eliyah,
If this is your major proof then it is a weak one.To me it only makes since for Matthew to be originally written in hebrew. Possibly James or Jude but the rest of the books had to written in greek because of the audiences.
liljon
“””The predominant language was Hebrew( Luke 23:38; John 5:2; John 19:13-20; Acts 21:40; Acts 22:2; Acts 26:14; Rev.9:11; Rev.16:16), however, Aramaic is like a sister language of Hebrew.””
I was stating Josephus's own words.
“I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understanding the elements of the Greek language although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own language, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness: for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations” (Antiquities, 20:11:2). “”
Nick,
I don't think internal scriptural quotations of Hebrew by the N.T. itself and its writers is weak evidence, for what other evidence outside the scriptures themselves is worth more than internal scriptural eveidence ?
Quote (Eliyah @ Oct. 07 2005,21:38) Nick, I don't think internal scriptural quotations of Hebrew by the N.T. itself and its writers is weak evidence, for what other evidence outside the scriptures themselves is worth more than internal scriptural eveidence ?
Hi eliyah,
The translations that you have shown in scripture into Hebrew is evidence in itself that Hebrew was not the language the NT was written in originally. It is evidence that it is not the language used.Nick,
Again, I'm not going to argue with you concerning plain internal quotations from the Desciples as using and quoting Hebrew scriptural texts in the N.T., idioms e.t.c., because there are too many to be ignored; because there were some Hebrew idioms and expressions that the Greek language simple could not interpolate, and if you choose to ignore them, then, that is your choice and your problem as well.
Quote (Eliyah @ Oct. 07 2005,10:02) The predominant language was Hebrew( Luke 23:38; John 5:2; John 19:13-20; Acts 21:40; Acts 22:2; Acts 26:14; Rev.9:11; Rev.16:16), however, Aramaic is like a sister language of Hebrew. We read that Peter and John were untaught, unschooled, illiterate, ordinary men. “Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Yahshua, (Acts 4:13).
Impetuous Peter was, along with James and John, a fisherman. Peter and the others who became fishers of men hardly would be expected to write their epistles in a second language, but would logically write in Hebrew, their native tongue. Greek might be more prevalent in cosmopolitan trading and business centers such as Caesaria than in Galilee, but it was neither the language of the Apostles nor of the Temple.
Greek is a very precise language, while Hebrew is picturesque and poetic, using similies, metaphors, and allegories (The Hebrew Bible contains only 8,198 different words-by contrast the English language includes more than 550,000 words.) Renowned Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote that although he far exceeded those of his own nation in Jewish learning, he could not pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness, and that “our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations…”(Antiq.of Jews I,v).
A peculiar discrepancy within the New Testament is this: if the New Testament were originally composed in Greek, why does it contain many untranslated Hebrew words? Why did the writers go to all the trouble of preserving Hebrew terms in their Greek writings?
The only valid explanation is that the Greek language had no equivalent words for these uniquely Hebrew terms taken from an original Hebrew text and translated into Greek.
These Hebrew survivals attest to a Hebrew original – and a Greek (and English) translation that brought them across unchanged from the Hebrew.
The following HEBREW words are included in the King James New Testament, as taken from the Greek translation.
Abba (“dearest father”); Messiah (“Anointed one”); Rabbi (“my teacher”); hosanna (“Save! We beseech”); Amen (suggests trust, faithfulness); talitha cumi (“maid arise”); ephphatha (“be opened”); corban (“a dedicated gift”); Sabbath (“repose”, “desist” from exertion); Satan (“adversary”); mammon (“riches”); raca (“to spit in one's face”); cummin (herb); Maranatha (“Master, I pray you overthrow”); Passover (“pass over”); Emmanuel (title meaning “El with us”); Eli lama Sabachthani (“my El, why have you forsaken me?”)
Even more compelling evidence for a New Testament originally composed in Hebrew is found in the clear Hebrew word order extant in the New Testament. Many sentences contain the verb-noun reversal common to Hebrew and Semitic languages.
Scholars also have long recognized that the grammar of the New Testament does not befit good Greek, but does reflect excellent Hebrew grammar.
In addition, many Hebraic idioms and expressions are scattered throughout the New Testament. Had the original been composed in Greek, these sayings would have been put into Greek form and expression.
For example, what did Yahshua and others mean by statements that don't make good sense in Greek (Or English) but are powerful in the Hebrew? Such expressions include: “If your eye is evil” (Matt. 6:23); “let the dead bury the dead” (Matt. 8:22); “for if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry” (Luke 23:31), and “thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head” (Paul in Rom. 12:20).
Numerous examples of Semitic poetry and reverse couplets (chiasmus) are dead giveaways to the original Hebrew of these books. Hebrew is also distinct for its colorful descriptions of simple, common acts.
For example, a beautiful expression in classical Hebrew is found in (Luke 16:23): “…he lift up his eyes…and saw…” Other sayings peculiar to Hebrew and found in the Evangels include: “Lay these sayings in your years,” “Cast out your name as evil,” “He set his face to go,” and “The appearance of his countenance was altered.”
Whole sentences or paragraphs in the New Testament can be retranslated word for word back into the Hebrew. ( Luke 10:5-6) is just one example: “And into whatsoever house you enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.” This passage is a synthesis of vivid Hebrew idioms unknown in the Greek.
Many linguists and historians now attest that the Evangels, the Acts, and the Book of Revelation were composed in Hebrew. Early “church fathers” validate that the Book of Matthew was originally written in Hebrew (see Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History 3:39; Irenaeus' Against Heresies 3:1; Epiphanius' Panarion 20:9:4; Jerome's Lives of Illustrious Men 3 and De Vir. 3:36).
Hebrew was the language of Judah and Galilee in the first century. Its sister language, Aramaic, remained the secondary tongue and the language of commerce. Jews in this area were not Greek-speaking. Their revulsion to the Greeks and the Greek language derives from the fact that the Maccabees had just defeated the Greeks and driven them and their pagan defilement from the Temple and Palestine.
This is why I quoted.
The eminent first century Jewish historian, priest, and scholar Josephus admitted that he could not speak Greek fluently and that the Jews frowned on any Jew who did.
“I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understanding the elements of the Greek language although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own language, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness: for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations” (Antiquities, 20:11:2).
There are just too many Hebrew words and Hebrew Phrases and idioms in the N.T. for it not to be originally written in the Desciples own native language.
Hi ,
If the OT scriptures were written in Hebrew then all the Jews would have kept up a familiarity with Hebrew no matter where they lived and what their native tongue was, so they could learn from the Torah, which they had preached at their synagogues. The hebrew tongue bound then together as a people but they would have spoken Aramaic or whatever was the local dialect in their daily life.
The Hebrew translations offered in the NT may just be that-reminding them of the meaning of the words in the tongue used in their teaching and worship, and no indication of their native tongue at all. In fact the reverse. If they all spoke Hebrew as their native tongue such references are entirely superfluous.Nick,
Your own ideas and assumptions but about things which you know nothing about does not prove or disprove a thing.
People assume it was then as it is today, however, the Jews never associated culturally with Gentiles, and that fact is proven in the Book of Acts, as it was forbidden for Jews and Gentiles to associate together, as the vision that Peter had concerning not to call any man common or unclean, again you argue against things you evidently know very little about.
Hi eliyah,
You divert from answering the point into abuse as is your way. If you are not ignorant on this matter and have proof we are interested to hear from you.Hi eliyah,
One thing you have made clear from the quotes you have given us is the one language we can show the NT was NOT written in is HEBREW. So which languages does that leave?Nick,
I'm not abusing anyone, you seem to wait till now after 3 or 4 days to argue , then you again accuse me.
The old Testament scriptures were originally written in Hebrew that is undeniable by any Scholar worth his salt, and there is none who refutes that fact, except maybe those laymen who are ignorant of that fact.
I've already given some proof of internal scriptural texts, and of a Jewish Historian, however, if you were really interested in the matter, then you would look for more original Hebrew quotes by the Desciples in the N.T. in which they quote from the Old Testament texts such by comparing ( Joel 2:32) with ( Peter-Acts 2:21; Paul- Rom.10:13) which are verbatim quotes from the Old Scriptures, but then again, if you were really interested, then you would look for these instead of wanting to argue and accuse.
I've already quoted many many of them in my previous posts, go back and look at all those posts if you are truely interested.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=354
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=314
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=337
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=347
Start searching, you will find them, and I'm not going through it again, which no one on this forum will even try to disprove them, because it is the truth of scriptures.
Now, instead of wanting to accuse and argue, why don't you do what is written at the bottom of your pages?
Test( Prove) all things. Hold fast to what is good( 1 Thess.5:21) , if not, then go back and try to dis-prove them ?
Hither too is the end of the matter.
Hi eliyah,
We do not regard you as an oracle of truth. We listen to your views as we do with all views and test them and hold fast to what is good. It is not all good. You present matters and opinions into these open forums to be examined, that you alone are convinced can only lead to certain conclusions, and then get seem to get upset when these matters are examined openly in the light of scripture. You have studied these things from your focussed perspective but surely we should be berean before we accept them as truth?Quote (Eliyah @ Oct. 10 2005,02:22) Nick, I'm not abusing anyone, you seem to wait till now after 3 or 4 days to argue , then you again accuse me.
The old Testament scriptures were originally written in Hebrew that is undeniable by any Scholar worth his salt, and there is none who refutes that fact, except maybe those laymen who are ignorant of that fact.
I've already given some proof of internal scriptural texts, and of a Jewish Historian, however, if you were really interested in the matter, then you would look for more original Hebrew quotes by the Desciples in the N.T. in which they quote from the Old Testament texts such by comparing ( Joel 2:32) with ( Peter-Acts 2:21; Paul- Rom.10:13) which are verbatim quotes from the Old Scriptures, but then again, if you were really interested, then you would look for these instead of wanting to argue and accuse.
I've already quoted many many of them in my previous posts, go back and look at all those posts if you are truely interested.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=354
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=314
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=337
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;t=347
Start searching, you will find them, and I'm not going through it again, which no one on this forum will even try to disprove them, because it is the truth of scriptures.
Now, instead of wanting to accuse and argue, why don't you do what is written at the bottom of your pages?
Test( Prove) all things. Hold fast to what is good( 1 Thess.5:21) , if not, then go back and try to dis-prove them ?
Hither too is the end of the matter.
Hi eliyah,
The OT was written in Hebrew. I agree. So when Peter and Paul quote these verses they would be familiar with their rendering in Hebrew. That does not mean they did not then translate those verses when they used them in speaking to the crowds into the dialect of the day.
Scripture does not say they spoke in any other dialect than that of the common man to whom they were speaking. Scripture does note when they did speak in Hebrew showing it was the exception and not the rule.
That is an unlikely, presumptuous and unproven approach to suggest so.Quote It is not all good. You present matters and opinions into these open forums to be examined, that you alone are convinced can only lead to certain conclusions, and then get seem to get upset when these matters are examined openly in the light of scripture. You have studied these things from your focussed perspective but surely we should be berean before we accept them as truth? I'm not upset at all Nick, as you again thinkor merely assume in your own mind, however, you must, because evidently this is why your so hostile toward me and the scriptures I have given.
I must be doing something right, because the traditional religious leaders spoke to the true Yahshua Messiah the same way, otherwise you would not be so hostile toward me, because you were not like this when I first came to this forum.
Can anyone wonder why? ( Laugh, Laugh, Laugh ).
I just laugh and rejoice, HalleluYAH!!
Then, go back to those posts and do… what is written at the bottom of your pages?
Test( Prove) all things. Hold fast to what is good( 1 Thess.5:21) , if not, then go back and try to dis-prove them ? Having problems doing that huh Nick?
Hey, get on the riiight siide of the road mate.( Laugh again).
Well, since you claim to speak in tongues as the evidence, why don't you translate all those many Hebrew idioms and phrases into Greek for us ?
I just can't help but Laugh again.
Hi eliyah,
When you first came to this site you did so in a seemimgly humble and respectful way. But since then you have shown an entirely different aspect with swaggering contempt for all being your style. Those searchers who want to listen have to wade through your condemnations and judgements to find the possible elusive kernels of truth.
If your style reflects your spirit then why would anyone want to learn from you? You continually besmirch your message with useless personal tirades.
” Out of your mouth comes what your heart is full of”
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