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Hi tt,
Did you bring your children into the world?
So back to the question where does heb 1 say what you claim it does?thinker ………we all were fore known, and predestinations as scripture says , but did we come into existence before we were born into the world , I think not, we were only foreordained by GOD and were manifested (brought into existence) in our time , Interestingly Peter say the Same thing about Jesus, “For He was Foreordained before the foundations of the earth (BUT) was Manifested in (OUR) time ” says Peter, and I believe Peter should pretty well know right. Thinker GOD the Father plainly said in His commandments (YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME). Jesus himself said “THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD” What does (NO OTHER) mean to you. Making Jesus himself a GOD is against Jesus and the FATHER. Go read 2Th2 and put Jesus in there as being portrayed as GOD and see what He will do with to that (LIE) when he returns in fact it the first thing he does, is to destory that LIE. thinker that Lie is that there is another GOD making Jesus, equal to the FATHER. Jesus is the only one who is sited at the right hand of GOD and is he not being displayed as a GOD. thinker People who teach more then (ONE) God are on shaky ground brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 21 2009,20:25) Hi tt,
Did you bring your children into the world?
So back to the question where does heb 1 say what you claim it does?
Nick,
The word “brought” does not mean that the Son was created. It says in verse 2 that the ages (aions) were created through Christ. So Jesus created time. And in verse 8 the Father addresses His Son as “GOD.”thinker
Quote (Gene @ Mar. 22 2009,04:09) thinker ………we all were fore known, and predestinations as scripture says , but did we come into existence before we were born into the world , I think not, we were only foreordained by GOD and were manifested (brought into existence) in our time , Interestingly Peter say the Same thing about Jesus, “For He was Foreordained before the foundations of the earth (BUT) was Manifested in (OUR) time ” says Peter, and I believe Peter should pretty well know right. Thinker GOD the Father plainly said in His commandments (YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME). Jesus himself said “THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD” What does (NO OTHER) mean to you. Making Jesus himself a GOD is against Jesus and the FATHER. Go read 2Th2 and put Jesus in there as being portrayed as GOD and see what He will do with to that (LIE) when he returns in fact it the first thing he does, is to destory that LIE. thinker that Lie is that there is another GOD making Jesus, equal to the FATHER. Jesus is the only one who is sited at the right hand of GOD and is he not being displayed as a GOD. thinker People who teach more then (ONE) God are on shaky ground brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………………………….gene
Gene,
I copy and paste my post to NickQuote Nick,
The word “brought” does not mean that the Son was created. It says in verse 2 that the ages (aions) were created through Christ. So Jesus created time. And in verse 8 the Father addresses His Son as “GOD.”thinker
Hi tt,
So if God shows that His son and men and angels can be called gods does that threaten His place as being the one true God?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2009,09:18) Hi tt,
So if God shows that His son and men and angels can be called gods does that threaten His place as being the one true God?
Nick,
The text says that the Son has a name that is “so much better” than the angels. Therefore, when the Father addressed the Son as “God” it meant exactly that.thinker
Hi tt,
Heb1
4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
No doubt he is above the angels and these great beings now serve those in Christ.
Heb1
13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb1
8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
So Jesus has a God.
His God is our God, the one true God.[jn20]Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 12 2009,15:03) Isaiah 44:6 says Quote Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel, and His blood-relative redeemer, YHWH of hosts: I am the first and I am the last The word “blood-relative redeemer” is the Hebrew “goel” which means “kinsman” or “blood-relative”. YHWH speaking prophetically identified Himself as Israel's blood-relative redeemer. Who was Israels' blood-relative that was also their redeemer? It's a no brainer. It was Jesus without a doubt. Therefore, YHWH in Isaiah 44:6 is Jesus.
Furthermore, YHWH, Israel's “goel” said also “I am the first and the last.” Jesus made this claim of Himself in the Revelation. I am intrigued as to how non-trinitarians will explain Isaiah 44:6. Will they go so far as to say that the Father was prophetically speaking of Himself. If so, then they would have to say that the Father became flesh.
thinker
Hi tt,
Is44
6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.There is only one speaking and He is the Father of true Israel
Hi tt,
Ponder Mal1
Malachi 1:6
A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?Nick said:
Quote So Jesus has a God.
His God is our God, the one true God.[jn20]But Christ's God still addressed His Son as “God”. And then said,
“Your throne….”You did not comment on the statement in Hebrews which says that the Son created time. WHY?
thinker
Nick said:
Quote Hi tt,
Is44
6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.There is only one speaking and He is the Father of true Israel
Nick,
Go to the “goel” thread bro. You have just inferred that the Father became flesh. For the word “redeemer” means “blood relative redeemer“. ONLY Jesus was Israel's blood relative and redeemer.thinker
To the thinker;
Jesus said his Father is his God. That pretty much clarifies the relationship between God and Christ.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Mar. 25 2009,08:06) To the thinker; Jesus said his Father is his God. That pretty much clarifies the relationship between God and Christ.
Greetings Mr. Steve,
And the Father addressed His Son as God (Heb. 1:8). So your truth is only half truth. And a half truth is a falsehood.thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus did tell us the Father is his God.
Jn20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.Do you think he is the God of the FATHER?
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 24 2009,13:26) Quote (Mr. Steve @ Mar. 25 2009,08:06) To the thinker; Jesus said his Father is his God. That pretty much clarifies the relationship between God and Christ.
Greetings Mr. Steve,
And the Father addressed His Son as God (Heb. 1:8). So your truth is only half truth. And a half truth is a falsehood.thinker
Thinker,Help me here. If Steve's truth is only half the truth and,
therefore, according to your logic, “a falshood” – what does your “truth” statement add up to since it too is only half
truth? Another falsehood?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2009,08:50) Hi TT, Jesus did tell us the Father is his God.
Jn20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.Do you think he is the God of the FATHER?
Nick,
The Father addressed the Son as “God” (Heb. 1:10). Again, your truth is only half truth. And a half truth is a falsehood.thinker
Seeking said:
Quote Help me here. If Steve's truth is only half the truth and,
therefore, according to your logic, “a falshood” – what does your “truth” statement add up to since it too is only half
truth? Another falsehood?Hi Seeking,
I acknowledge that the Father was Christ's God. I accept also that the Father called Christ “God” (Heb. 1:10). These two propositions are the full truth. But Mr. Steve acknowledges the first proposition and denies the second. This is half truth. And a half truth is a falsehood.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 25 2009,00:22) Seeking said: Quote Help me here. If Steve's truth is only half the truth and,
therefore, according to your logic, “a falshood” – what does your “truth” statement add up to since it too is only half
truth? Another falsehood?Hi Seeking,
I acknowledge that the Father was Christ's God. I accept also that the Father called Christ “God” (Heb. 1:10). These two propositions are the full truth. But Mr. Steve acknowledges the first proposition and denies the second. This is half truth. And a half truth is a falsehood.thinker
Thinker,Thanks! Now I am clear that you acknowledge both truths and that only when considered together does one have the
whole truth.Blessings in your walk woth the Lord,
Seeking
thinker……….brother why did Jesus say in prayer “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”. the word THOU means someone else , not the person talking, and the word ONLY means no other (true) GOD. This is plain, while there are many gods there is (ONLY ONE TRUE GOD)> and it wasn't the person making that prayer. (Jesus). IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………………gene
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