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Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2013,05:24) He lied by omitting the fact she was also his wife.
Hi Kerwin,There's NO SUCH THING as lying by omission.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed and kerwin. Anyway, is lying topic seems like something that could have its own thread. Whether lying by omission is lying, has nothing to do with the question this thread presents. Please respect this. Thanks.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 02 2013,18:02) Quote (david @ Feb. 02 2013,11:20) Quote The world is full of examples of morality based on those who have rejected the idea of God, so no I don't believe we're drawn to correct morals. Frankly I do not even understand why you see this as such a hard choice. Wm
Because it effectively makes God just a messenger of morality, rather than the established of morality.
I disagree, God as the establisher of morality He has to communicate what is expected, from those it is expected from. This in no way diminishes Him as the establisher (otherwise we are left guessing at what He wants!)Quote It also would mean that “right” and “wrong” (good and bad) are not really dependent on God.
How He established “good” from His very character, GOD IS LOVE.
Wm
Seeking truth,Is what is “good” good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good?
You say that God is the “establisher of morality”–lets just say the establisher of what is good and what is wrong.
But, you also choose the latter half of my question above as the truth–that God says something is good (or condemns something that is bad) because that thing is in fact intrinsically good (or bad). But then in what sense does he “establish” that it is good? Or in what sense can we say that he is the originator of what is good or that he is the standard for what is good or bad, when he is telling us what already seems to exist.
You're missing the point David, the LOVE that God is, is what makes an action good or bad. God is the source of love, even punishment of kid's can be “good” if done out of love for their greater good.
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 04 2013,15:29) You're missing the point David, the LOVE that God is, is what makes an action good or bad. God is the source of love, even punishment of kid's can be “good” if done out of love for their greater good. Wm
So. It is Gods nature, or personality or characteristics that make a thing good or bad.Does this mean that if God didn't exist there would simply be no way of judging good from bad? Without God, we wouldn't know that murder is bad? Or, without God, or without Gods love, we wouldn't know that stealing is wrong?
Quote (david @ Feb. 04 2013,17:42) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 04 2013,15:29) You're missing the point David, the LOVE that God is, is what makes an action good or bad. God is the source of love, even punishment of kid's can be “good” if done out of love for their greater good. Wm
So. It is Gods nature, or personality or characteristics that make a thing good or bad.Does this mean that if God didn't exist there would simply be no way of judging good from bad? Without God, we wouldn't know that murder is bad? Or, without God, or without Gods love, we wouldn't know that stealing is wrong?
“Now you got it.”–seeking truth((1)) Is what is “good” good because God commands it, or ((2)) does God command it because it is good?
You started out with the second option but if you are agreeing with my questions, doesn't that imply the first option is correct?
Quote (david @ Feb. 04 2013,14:48) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 02 2013,18:02) Quote (david @ Feb. 02 2013,11:20) Quote The world is full of examples of morality based on those who have rejected the idea of God, so no I don't believe we're drawn to correct morals. Frankly I do not even understand why you see this as such a hard choice. Wm
Because it effectively makes God just a messenger of morality, rather than the established of morality.
I disagree, God as the establisher of morality He has to communicate what is expected, from those it is expected from. This in no way diminishes Him as the establisher (otherwise we are left guessing at what He wants!)Quote It also would mean that “right” and “wrong” (good and bad) are not really dependent on God.
How He established “good” from His very character, GOD IS LOVE.
Wm
Seeking truth,Is what is “good” good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good?
You say that God is the “establisher of morality”–lets just say the establisher of what is good and what is wrong.
But, you also choose the latter half of my question above as the truth–that God says something is good (or condemns something that is bad) because that thing is in fact intrinsically good (or bad). But then in what sense does he “establish” that it is good? Or in what sense can we say that he is the originator of what is good or that he is the standard for what is good or bad, when he is telling us what already seems to exist.
Seeking, I'm wondering if you could address my question in is post above? Thanks.God declares that he is good. God has a personality and his character traits are what he declares as good.
And who in their right mind would argue if they were able to compare a world that was totally conformed to his will compared with one that wasn't.
Thus if that which is of God is good, then it is not so much that God randomly chooses what is good, but that what is of him is good.
Perhaps he of all life understands that anything that is not of him is not good.
Quote (david @ Feb. 04 2013,20:42) So. It is Gods nature, or personality or characteristics that make a thing good or bad. Does this mean that if God didn't exist there would simply be no way of judging good from bad? Without God, we wouldn't know that murder is bad? Or, without God, or without Gods love, we wouldn't know that stealing is wrong?
Perhaps that is the case david.Without good, there would be no everlasting anything.
Because all else falls short of his glory and therefore is not able to sustain itself in eternity.What society or person could exist forever without the virtues of God, (ignoring that life comes from God's spirit anyway)?
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2013,00:44) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2013,05:24) He lied by omitting the fact she was also his wife.
Hi Kerwin,There's NO SUCH THING as lying by omission.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J and all,Jehovah's spirit is the source of all love. Anyone that loves does it by Jehovah's Spirit. That which does not come from Jehovah's Spirit is rebellion against love.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 05 2013,17:21) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2013,00:44) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2013,05:24) He lied by omitting the fact she was also his wife.
Hi Kerwin,There's NO SUCH THING as lying by omission.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J and all,Jehovah's spirit is the source of all love. Anyone that loves does it by Jehovah's Spirit. That which does not come from Jehovah's Spirit is rebellion against love.
And… how does that connect to: NO SUCH THING as lying by omission?Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,13:36) Quote (david @ Feb. 04 2013,17:42) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 04 2013,15:29) You're missing the point David, the LOVE that God is, is what makes an action good or bad. God is the source of love, even punishment of kid's can be “good” if done out of love for their greater good. Wm
So. It is Gods nature, or personality or characteristics that make a thing good or bad.Does this mean that if God didn't exist there would simply be no way of judging good from bad? Without God, we wouldn't know that murder is bad? Or, without God, or without Gods love, we wouldn't know that stealing is wrong?
“Now you got it.”–seeking truth((1)) Is what is “good” good because God commands it, or ((2)) does God command it because it is good?
You started out with the second option but if you are agreeing with my questions, doesn't that imply the first option is correct?
No, you use an impossible premise “if God didn't exist” than expect answers made within this hypothetical situation to make sense and agree with a real life situation!One last time, it is the love that God is that establishes good from bad. There are plenty of examples of what men do when rejecting God and establishing their own “morality”, they include murder of certain sects of people (as good), theft of their possessions, etc..
Wm
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 05 2013,12:21) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2013,00:44) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2013,05:24) He lied by omitting the fact she was also his wife.
Hi Kerwin,There's NO SUCH THING as lying by omission.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J and all,Jehovah's spirit is the source of all love. Anyone that loves does it by Jehovah's Spirit. That which does not come from Jehovah's Spirit is rebellion against love.
KI understand that it is God's actions that shows his LOVE to us ,
and because he his a spirit being we should in our and with our spirit and the thoughts in our hearts LOVE HIM
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 05 2013,19:19) Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,13:36) Quote (david @ Feb. 04 2013,17:42) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 04 2013,15:29) You're missing the point David, the LOVE that God is, is what makes an action good or bad. God is the source of love, even punishment of kid's can be “good” if done out of love for their greater good. Wm
So. It is Gods nature, or personality or characteristics that make a thing good or bad.Does this mean that if God didn't exist there would simply be no way of judging good from bad? Without God, we wouldn't know that murder is bad? Or, without God, or without Gods love, we wouldn't know that stealing is wrong?
“Now you got it.”–seeking truth((1)) Is what is “good” good because God commands it, or ((2)) does God command it because it is good?
You started out with the second option but if you are agreeing with my questions, doesn't that imply the first option is correct?
No, you use an impossible premise “if God didn't exist” than expect answers made within this hypothetical situation to make sense and agree with a real life situation!One last time, it is the love that God is that establishes good from bad. There are plenty of examples of what men do when rejecting God and establishing their own “morality”, they include murder of certain sects of people (as good), theft of their possessions, etc..
Wm
sktQuote One last time, it is the love that God is that establishes good from bad. God his a God of LOVE why
because what he does he does not make it to be destroyed ,but to exist beside him forever,and the only way that ,that works is to run and rule it in LOVE
this is why what ever his not LOVE must be destroyed one way or an other .
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 05 2013,13:07) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 05 2013,17:21) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2013,00:44) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 03 2013,05:24) He lied by omitting the fact she was also his wife.
Hi Kerwin,There's NO SUCH THING as lying by omission.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J and all,Jehovah's spirit is the source of all love. Anyone that loves does it by Jehovah's Spirit. That which does not come from Jehovah's Spirit is rebellion against love.
And… how does that connect to: NO SUCH THING as lying by omission?
Ed J and all,I was steering the conversation back to the topic of the thread. Lying by omission is leaving out parts in order to deceive. If the spirit behind it is the lack of love then it is a sin.
Hi Kerwin,
Just exactly how is it 'deception' to not tell somebody something? this makes no sense.
We can always start a thread on this if you cannot answer in one or two posts.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 06 2013,19:41) Hi Kerwin, Just exactly how is it 'deception' to not tell somebody something? this makes no sense.
We can always start a thread on this if you cannot answer in one or two posts.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,God speaks by his Spirit, which is the Spirit of love.
-His Law is summed up as Love.
-He states not to add to his Law.
-He also states not to subtract(omit) from his his Law.Your point is that you believe lying infers you are doing something. I am calling “half truths”, lying by omission.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 07 2013,00:32) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 06 2013,19:41) Hi Kerwin, Just exactly how is it 'deception' to not tell somebody something? this makes no sense.
We can always start a thread on this if you cannot answer in one or two posts.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,God speaks by his Spirit, which is the Spirit of love.
-His Law is summed up as Love.
-He states not to add to his Law.
-He also states not to subtract(omit) from his his Law.Your point is that you believe lying infers you are doing something. I am calling “half truths”, lying by omission.
kQuote God speaks by his Spirit, which is the Spirit of love.
-His Law is summed up as Love.could you explain that
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2013,00:39) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 07 2013,00:32) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 06 2013,19:41) Hi Kerwin, Just exactly how is it 'deception' to not tell somebody something? this makes no sense.
We can always start a thread on this if you cannot answer in one or two posts.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,God speaks by his Spirit, which is the Spirit of love.
-His Law is summed up as Love.
-He states not to add to his Law.
-He also states not to subtract(omit) from his his Law.Your point is that you believe lying infers you are doing something. I am calling “half truths”, lying by omission.
kQuote God speaks by his Spirit, which is the Spirit of love.
-His Law is summed up as Love.could you explain that
T,I am assuming you know Scripture well enough to know what passages I am referring to.
There are more than one passage that teach us God's Law is summed up in the command to love.
Given that we determine that the Spirit is Love because its fruit is obedience to the Law, and that is being Loving.
Its Gods Spirit and since the prophets spoke as carried along by it, how much more God himself.
Every Word Jehovah utters is Loving. When he commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac the command was loving as it also was when he pardoned Issac and gave Abraham an animal to sacrifice in his place.
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