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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2010,06:42) Hi TT,
He is the high priest and also the sacrificial lamb.
Can you not cope with his many roles?
Exactly! Jesus is “all things.” He is High Priest and the Sacrifice. He is the Lion and the Lamb. He is God and Man. He is the Testator and the Mediator.Jesus is the sum total of our salvation!
thinker
Hi TT,
God saves.
Through His Son, the man Jesus Christ.He is not that God or a part of that God. God is his Father
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 22 2010,08:10) Exactly! Jesus is “all things.” He is High Priest and the Sacrifice. He is the Lion and the Lamb. He is God and Man. He is the Testator and the Mediator. Jesus is the sum total of our salvation!
thinker
Hi Thinker,Who is Jehovah to you, then?
I keep telling you Trinitarians: If a Scripture is confusing you, all you have to do is ask yourself if the person writing or speaking in the Scripture thinks Jesus is God Almighty.
Let's see if it works.
Only Lord and Master? Did Jude believe that Jesus was God Almighty? Read verse 25 for the answer. Simple.
Only testator? Did Paul believe that Jesus was God Almighty? Read 1 Cor 8:6 for the answer. Wow! It works!
peace and love
mikeQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 22 2010,05:11) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,21:30) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,21:16) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,15:00) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:38) Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2010,02:44)
Major Premiss – Jesus is God
Minor Premiss – Jesus dies
Conclusion – God diesWHAT SILLINESS.
Yes!thinker
Thinker,Your Logic is MAJORLY flawed, read this Post and Get a clue!
Jesus said:“This is the new covenant in MY BLOOD.”
Is Jesus the Testator or not?
thinker
Hi Thinker,I answered that question on the FIRST PAGE for you, and you have asked me three times since.
This is obviously because you DIDN'T read my Posts! Go back and read it instead of asking me over and over.
If you didn't read my short Posts, there is no way you are going to read CA's L o n g Post located at…
Forum » BELIEVERS PLACE » Debates » Ca and tt: date for the writing of the apocalypseGod bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J,I will keep asking until you answer Hebrews 9 directly.
“In case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in effect only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.” Heb. 9:16-17 NIV
It CLEARLY says that the one who made the will must die. It CLEARLY says that a will never takes effect while the one who made it is living.
Did Christ make the will? Yes or no?
From the first page you said that animals died in the old testament and they were not testators. First, Hebrews says that the blood of animals could never take away sin. Second, we are talking about the new covenant of which the animal sacrifices were only the “shadow.”
Hebrew 8 CLEARLY says that GOD made the will. Hebrews 9 CLEARLY says that the one who made the will MUST DIE for the will to take effect.
If you deny that Jesus Christ is the Testator of the new covenant, then on the authority of the word of God I must warn you that you are in danger of damnation!
And what has CA's post to do with this? I was talking about Hebrews 6 and he started a topic on the dating of the Revelation. Show where I agreed to discuss the dating of the Revelation.
thinker
Hi TT,Since your question is genuine I will Re-Post it for you!
“YHVH is One GOD”=151
The LORD JEHOVAH=151 instituted the “Old Testament” in the death of animals,
and The LORD JEHOVAH=151 instituted the “New Testament” in the death of the “Testator”=151.
Jesus Christ=151 is the “Testator” and the “HolySpirit”=151 enforces the NEW “Testament”! (Hebrews 9: 15-26)
Just in case you didn't understand this simple English phraseology; the next Part should Help you to see this a bit more clearly!YHVH is ONE GOD=151 (Deut.6:4 / Eph.4:6)
1) The LORD JEHOVAH=151 (Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4) (Old “Testament”=117)
2) LORD of Hosts=151…(AKJV Bible)…His Hosts=117: Jesus and ALL of His brethren! (Rev.11:15)
3) Holy Spirit=151 (“The word” Structure of GOD: Old and New “Testament”=117) (Hebrews 7:28)
4) Jesus Christ=151 (“Testator“=151) (Hebrews 9:16-17) (New “Testament”=117)“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThinker
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.What is Paul talking about that he says, Christ is over all, “as concerning the FLESH”, that is “all” of humanity, Christ is over all of us, and he, Paul, blesses God for that.
Yes, Jesus is the testator, but are you clear in your mind that we are speaking in spiritual terms? It is not like Jesus had a real wife that killed him. Israel was his spiritual bride, was no more a real woman as the new bride is, the saints. Israel are God's chosen people, he chose them to teach, for two reasons; one, that they would be given first chance in everything, not because they were so good, no, but because of his promise to Abraham. Two; to show the rest of the world, that includes us today, that without God's Holy Spirit, which they did not have, even with all the miracles that they witnessed, they could not, and we can not, obey God.
God made a covenant with Israel, the nation. She, the nation, was the church in the wilderness; you know that the church is also referred to as a woman, as the bride of Christ.
The Son, not yet called Jesus in the OT, was the husband, or if you prefer, the testator.
When the wife, Israel, killed her husband, Jesus, the son was free to choose a new wife, church, they are the saints, spiritual Israelites.
Now, do you understand, the covenant Jesus made the night before he died, is not “thee” “new covenant”. He did NOT make that covenant with Israel, he made “A COVENANT BY SACRIFICE” with “ALL” nations; for what purpose? for the choosing of his new “bride”. Those saints that were willing to sacrifice their life for him, and the word of God, would become his new “BRIDE”.
Think about what these two scriptures are saying.Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.Jesus was the “FIRST” to make “A” covenant by sacrifice, that made him the “TESTATOR”, but that does not make him “GOD”. God is immortal, he can not die, death is impossible, Jesus, his son, was not immortal then, he is now, because “God” has “given” him immortality.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
This “NEW COVENANT” God will make, will be made when Christ begins to rule; and again, it will begin with Israel.
Jer 30:10 ¶ Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
Only part of this prophecy has been fulfilled, God brought them back, they are a nation again.
Jer 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
Has God made a full end of all the nations yet? no, that means, we have something to look forward to.
How is God not going to leave the Israelites unpunished? they have yet to go through their third tribulation. They will however, come out on top, and then what?Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 ¶ The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.God will begin to rebuild, and restore this world, under the reign of Jesus Christ, with the nation Israel “FIRST”, and then God will make a NEW COVENANT, not only for the Israelites, but for all people.
Georg
Wow, same old title confusion trick….different words.
For other examples and for your amusement, search “confusion trick.” You'll find more examples of this flawed logic.
Quote Major premise: God alone is the Testator
Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is GodMajor premise: T8 is the administrator
Minor premise: Nick is the administrator
Conclusion: Therefore, Nick is t8.As you say, if both premises are correct, then the conclusion must be correct. Well, what happens when you create premises that are half true?
I now see at least a few other people are calling your logic flawed.
If what you say is logical, you should be able to explain your premises, and prove them. You have to make them concrete, not wishy washy.
Mike said:
Quote Only Lord and Master? Did Jude believe that Jesus was God Almighty? Read verse 25 for the answer. Simple.
Mike,What is it you think that Jude 25 proves? It simply says that glory and majesty and dominion and power belong to God our Savior. Verse 4 also says that Jesus Christ is our Savior.
Revelation 5:13 says that both the Father and the Lamb receive glory and honor and power.
So what's your point?
Mike:
Quote Only testator? Did Paul believe that Jesus was God Almighty? Read 1 Cor 8:6 for the answer.
You guys just keep throwing a bunch of scriptures into the mix and ingnore what Hebrews 9:16-17 PLAINLY says.16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the DEATH of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.]
The text PLAINLY says that that the one who makes the will dies. The Father did not die. Therefore, Jesus Christ is the “one who made the will.”
“This is the new covenant IN MY BLOOD“
You didn't even touch Hebrews 9:16-17. Why?
thinker
Georg said:
Quote The Son, not yet called Jesus in the OT, was the husband, or if you prefer, the testator.
Georg,Thank you for the admission you give above. Christ was indeed Israel's Husband. Now guess what Georg? Israel's Husband was also her God.
For your Maker is your husband,
The LORD of hosts is His name;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;
He is called the God of the whole earth. Isaiah 54:5Major premise: Christ was Israel's Husband
Minor premise: Israels Husband was her God
Conclusion: Therefore, Christ was Israel's GodYour admission that Christ was Israel's Husband is quite significant. And your admission that Christ is also Israel's Testator is equally significant. For the testator is the one who makes the will and upon whose death the will takes effect. Hebrews 8 says that God made the will. So if Christ is the Testator then “God” in chapter 8 cannot be a reference to the Father.
Major premise: God is the Testator
Minor premise: Christ is the Testator
Conclusion: Therefore, Christ is Godor,
Major premise: Only the one who dies is Israel's Testator
Minor premise: The Father did not die
Conclusion: Therefore, the Father is not Israel's TestatorJust like the others here you didn't even touch Hebrews 9:16-17. But at least you admit that Christ is the Testator which puts you above the rest here.
thinker
Quote (david @ Feb. 22 2010,17:25) Wow, same old title confusion trick….different words. For other examples and for your amusement, search “confusion trick.” You'll find more examples of this flawed logic.
Quote Major premise: God alone is the Testator
Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is GodMajor premise: T8 is the administrator
Minor premise: Nick is the administrator
Conclusion: Therefore, Nick is t8.As you say, if both premises are correct, then the conclusion must be correct. Well, what happens when you create premises that are half true?
David,Your conclusion is false because one of your premises is false. There is more than one administrator on Heaven Net. But there is ONLY one Testator.
Major premise: God alone is the Testator
Minor premise: Jesus Christ is the Testator
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus Christ is God.If both premises are true then my conclusion necessarily folows. It is beyond dispute that Premise two is true. Christ is the Testator for the testator is the one who makes the will. And the one who makes the will is the one who dies.
So do you want to challenge Premise one that God ALONE is the Testator?
Please visit a website on how to construct a valid logical syllogism. Below is a valid syllogism:
Major premise: God alone is our Savior
Minor premise: Jesus Christ is our Savior
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus Christ is GodSeeing that both premises are TRUE, then the conclusion necessarily follows. In Isaiah 43:11 God said, “Besides Me there is no Savior.” The new testament is replete with statements that Jesus Christ is the Savior. The conclusion that Jesus Christ is God necessarily follows.
thinker
Hi TT,
THEREFORE leads you down many false trails.
You tell us by your logic that Jesus is his own father?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,06:57) Hi TT,
THEREFORE leads you down many false trails.
You tell us by your logic that Jesus is his own father?
Then it should not be difficult for you to disprove me.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi thethinker:If what you are saying is true, then God could not make the will since God is eternal, and cannot die.
But God gave everything that he created to Jesus, he said:
Quote 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And for the book of Colossians:
Quote Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And Jesus as the testator made the following statement:
Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,18:04) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi thethinker:If what you are saying is true, then God could not make the will since God is eternal, and cannot die.
But God gave everything that he created to Jesus, he said:
Quote 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And for the book of Colossians:
Quote Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And Jesus as testator made the following statement:
Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJesus was given back what he shared with the Father before the days of his flesh!
But even so, it makes no difference because if the “infinite” Father gave him “ALL” things including “ALL power and authority” then that means that Jesus is infinite in “possessing” All things” and infinite in “power and authority”.
That is equality my friend. What mere finite being can contain infinite power and uphold an infinite creation?
Unless you do not think “ALL” means “All”!
The scriptures say “By him ALL things consist”! Col 1:17
Blessings WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi TT,How the “Testator”=151(Jesus Christ=151) becomes God(The LORD JEHOVAH=151), You have yet to explain?
You faulty premise logic assertions certainly don't do it?
Try an explanation, if you want others to have a chance to agree with you.Ed J
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2010,10:17) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi TT,How the “Testator”=151(Jesus Christ=151) becomes God(The LORD JEHOVAH=151), You have yet to explain?
You faulty premise logic assertions certainly don't do it?
Try an explanation, if you want others to have a chance to agree with you.Ed J
ED J,
And you say I don't read your posts. Read my OP to this thread and also my first post on this page.thinker
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