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Wakeup,
Quote Actually it has nothing to do with the alphabet.
God is just claiming that HE is the first and the last.
There are no other real gods in between the first and the last.That was point with my question about how many letters in an alphabet that the same letter is both the first and the last.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2014,00:46) Wakeup, Quote Actually it has nothing to do with the alphabet.
God is just claiming that HE is the first and the last.
There are no other real gods in between the first and the last.That was point with my question about how many letters in an alphabet that the same letter is both the first and the last.
Kerwin.I am sorry but what exactly do you mean.
Can you be more specific?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 30 2014,20:08) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2014,00:46) Wakeup, Quote Actually it has nothing to do with the alphabet.
God is just claiming that HE is the first and the last.
There are no other real gods in between the first and the last.That was point with my question about how many letters in an alphabet that the same letter is both the first and the last.
Kerwin.I am sorry but what exactly do you mean.
Can you be more specific?wakeup.
WakeupA alphabet that has the same letter as both the first and last letter of it only has 1 letter. It is a way of claiming to be the only one of something.
The other interpretation is from first to last, the entirety, and I do not see how that fits the context.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2014,01:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 30 2014,20:08) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2014,00:46) Wakeup, Quote Actually it has nothing to do with the alphabet.
God is just claiming that HE is the first and the last.
There are no other real gods in between the first and the last.That was point with my question about how many letters in an alphabet that the same letter is both the first and the last.
Kerwin.I am sorry but what exactly do you mean.
Can you be more specific?wakeup.
WakeupA alphabet that has the same letter as both the first and last letter of it only has 1 letter. It is a way of claiming to be the only one of something.
The other interpretation is from first to last, the entirety, and I do not see how that fits the context.
Kerwin.Scripture does not say from Alpha TO Omega,
but the Alpha and the Omega.
The first and the last,not from the first to the last.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2014,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2014,01:14) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 30 2014,20:08) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 31 2014,00:46) Wakeup, Quote Actually it has nothing to do with the alphabet.
God is just claiming that HE is the first and the last.
There are no other real gods in between the first and the last.That was point with my question about how many letters in an alphabet that the same letter is both the first and the last.
Kerwin.I am sorry but what exactly do you mean.
Can you be more specific?wakeup.
WakeupA alphabet that has the same letter as both the first and last letter of it only has 1 letter. It is a way of claiming to be the only one of something.
The other interpretation is from first to last, the entirety, and I do not see how that fits the context.
Kerwin.Scripture does not say from Alpha TO Omega,
but the Alpha and the Omega.
The first and the last,not from the first to the last.wakeup.
Wakeup,I agree. That is part of the context I was speaking of.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:31) Mikeb. Anything coming from Egypt is antiChrist.
Matthew 2:15 King James Version
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.Hmmmm…………
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:31) Anything coming from the scribes is antichrist.
Are you referring to the scribes who added their own extra words to the original Greek texts……. extra words which were then mistakenly included in the KJV?If those are the scribes you're talking about, then I agree with you.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2014,10:50) Wakeup, Is this thread designed to prove to us that Jesus actually IS God Almighty Himself?
I prefer either a YES or a NO – as opposed to an analogy about a car.
Mikeb.You expect me to answer a mystery with a yes or no.
Yes I do. So please do so now.It seems to me that you're trying to prove that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, and only God is the Alpha and the Omega.
In my puny brain, that means you're saying Jesus actually IS God.
And I want to know, with a simple YES or NO, if that IS what you're telling us.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:43) The right hand of God *belongs* to God. The hand itself is NOT God.
And is God's hand, all by itself, also the Alpha and Omega?Are we to worship the hand of God AND also God Himself?
Or do we worship only God Himself, and NOT the things that “belong to Him”?
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,23:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2014,11:18) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:09) Revelation is from God to his Word………
Huh?
God has to tell His word what His words are?
If both God and His Word are the Alpha and Omega, then they should know the same things, right? Why then did God have to TELL his Word what Words to say to the angel?And out of all the Words God told to the angel, why is only one of them a “living part of God Himself” – and the rest of them are just words? Or is EVERY word God speaks also the Alpha and Omega?
Confusion Babylon, if you ask me. Wakeup, you have gotten yourself so mired in muck that you can't think straight anymore.
You see Mike; How you are still far from understanding
this great mystery.
Translation: You see Mike, I can't possibly attempt to actually EXPLAIN the nonsense I've been spouting to anyone, so the best I can do is blame YOUR lack of spiritual knowledge for MY bizarre doctrine.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2014,12:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:31) Mikeb. Anything coming from Egypt is antiChrist.
Matthew 2:15 King James Version
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.Hmmmm…………
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:31) Anything coming from the scribes is antichrist.
Are you referring to the scribes who added their own extra words to the original Greek texts……. extra words which were then mistakenly included in the KJV?If those are the scribes you're talking about, then I agree with you.
Mikeb.Thank you.
These kingdoms today are also called by God; Egypt.
The leaders are worshipping Egytian/Babylonian gods.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2014,12:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2014,10:50) Wakeup, Is this thread designed to prove to us that Jesus actually IS God Almighty Himself?
I prefer either a YES or a NO – as opposed to an analogy about a car.
Mikeb.You expect me to answer a mystery with a yes or no.
Yes I do. So please do so now.It seems to me that you're trying to prove that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, and only God is the Alpha and the Omega.
In my puny brain, that means you're saying Jesus actually IS God.
And I want to know, with a simple YES or NO, if that IS what you're telling us.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:43) The right hand of God *belongs* to God. The hand itself is NOT God.
And is God's hand, all by itself, also the Alpha and Omega?Are we to worship the hand of God AND also God Himself?
Or do we worship only God Himself, and NOT the things that “belong to Him”?
Mikeb.God's Word it self; without God is silly.
This can not be.
There can not be God's Word; without God.
We worship a complete God.
The Word can not opperate without God.
But then; there can be no Word without God.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2014,12:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,23:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2014,11:18) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:09) Revelation is from God to his Word………
Huh?God has to tell His word what His words are?
If both God and His Word are the Alpha and Omega, then they should know the same things, right? Why then did God have to TELL his Word what Words to say to the angel?And out of all the Words God told to the angel, why is only one of them a “living part of God Himself” – and the rest of them are just words? Or is EVERY word God speaks also the Alpha and Omega?
Confusion Babylon, if you ask me. Wakeup, you have gotten yourself so mired in muck that you can't think straight anymore.
You see Mike; How you are still far from understanding
this great mystery.
Translation: You see Mike, I can't possibly attempt to actually EXPLAIN the nonsense I've been spouting to anyone, so the best I can do is blame YOUR lack of spiritual knowledge for MY bizarre doctrine.
Mikeb.Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
You are ignoring my points……… again.
1. Jesus was called “out of Egypt”. So, is EVERYTHING that came “out of Egypt” the antichrist?
2. I showed you that the older Greek mss, along with the earliest translations into Coptic, Latin, Ethiopian, etc. do not have “Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:11.
Saying that you knew someone would say that is NOT a valid rebuttal to the facts I laid out for you. Please address the reason WHY those early mss and translations don't have those words – but the much later KJV does.
3. I made a claim that the Alpha and Omega in Rev 22:13 is Jehovah – and not Jesus.
Do you have a response to that claim?
In other words, I have rebutted the claims you made in the OP. Do you AGREE with me that Jesus is NOT called the Alpha and Omega in any scripture? Or do you have information that can rebut MY claims?
Also, do you understand that two people sharing a title, such as “First and Last”, “Alpha and Omega”, “King”, “Lord”, or “Master”, does NOT mean those two people are the same person – or even equal to each other?
So even IF Jesus was indeed called “the Alpha and Omega” as one of his many titles, it would NOT mean Jesus was God, nor would it even equate Jesus with God.
Do you understand all of these things?
MikeB.
You think you with your limited knowledge, can outsmart me
to get me into a corner.The truth will always come on top.Quote
1. Jesus was called “out of Egypt”. So, is EVERYTHING that came “out of Egypt” the antichrist?JESUS DID NOT COME FROM EGYPT.BUT HE WAS JUST HIDING FROM HEROD UNTILL HEROD WAS DEAD.
IF YOU HAVE BEEN HOLIDAYING IN EGYPT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE AN EGYPTIAN.Quote
2. I showed you that the older Greek mss, along with the earliest translations into Coptic, Latin, Ethiopian, etc. do not have “Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:11.THIS IS JUST WHAT THEY SAY,HAVE YOU CHECKED IT OUT FOR YOURSLEF. DO THEY ALWAYS SPEAK THE TRUTH IN YOUR EYES? ARE THEY NOT MEN.HOW DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THEIR AGENDA IS?
DID THE SCRIPTURES NOT WARN US THAT EVEN TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO, THERE ARE MANY ANTICHRISTS ALREADY? NOW WHAT ABOUT TODAY?
Dont ignore this warning for own sake.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, **even now** are there *many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.Quote
Saying that you knew someone would say that is NOT a valid rebuttal to the facts I laid out for you. Please address the reason WHY those early mss and translations don't have those words – but the much later KJV does.THIS ALSO IS IN COTROVERSY AMONGS THEMSLEVES.
I DONT HAVE TO GO THROUGHT THEM. I HAVE SEEN THE TRUTH, AND IT CAN NOT BE REFUTED, DESPITE THE CHANGING/TWISTING AND TURNING THE SCRIPTURES UPSIDE DOWN.CLAIMING AND DISCLAIMING.Quote
3. I made a claim that the Alpha and Omega in Rev 22:13 is Jehovah – and not Jesus.
Do you have a response to that claim?THE ALPHA AND OMEGA IS GOD AND HIS WORD/JESUS
THEY BELONG TOGETHER AND ARE ONE.
THE FIRST *WITH* THE LAST. *AND THE WORD WAS *WITH* GOD*.Quote
In other words, I have rebutted the claims you made in the OP. Do you AGREE with me that Jesus is NOT called the Alpha and Omega in any scripture? Or do you have information that can rebut MY claims?I JUST HOPE THAT YOU WONT SAY TO ANYTHING YOU DISAGREE. THAT IT WAS ADDED ON. IF THIS IS THE CASE THAN *ANYTHING* CAN BE DISMISSED USING THAT SAME
QUOTE.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; ***I am the first and the last***:
Revelation 1:18 ***I am he that liveth, and was dead***; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.WE SHOULD KNOW THAT JESUS WAS DEAD.AND HE CLAIMED TO BE THE FIRST AND THE LAST. THE SAME CLAIM GOD MADE. I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST;THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE ME. I ALONE AM HE.
Quote
Also, do you understand that two people sharing a title, such as “First and Last”, “Alpha and Omega”, “King”, “Lord”, or “Master”, does NOT mean those two people are the same person – or even equal to each other?NOT IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH PEOPLE.
WE ARE DEALING WITH THE MYSTERY OF GOD HERE.
THEY ARE EQUAL IN POWER BECAUSE ALL GOD'S POWER
WAS **GIVEN** TO HIM/JESUS. BUT GOD IS STILL HIS GOD
BECAUSE GOD CONTROLS HIM.GOD'S OWN *LIVING* WORD IS UNDER GOD.*NEVER* CAN BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND.Quote
So even IF Jesus was indeed called “the Alpha and Omega” as one of his many titles, it would NOT mean Jesus was God, nor would it even equate Jesus with God.GOD HOLDS THE POWER,AND HE *GAVE* IT TO HIS *LIVING BREATING* WORD.THEREFORE HE IS EQUAL IN POWER WITH GOD. BUT GOD IS STILL HIS GOD,
BECAUSE HE IS IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS GOD,WHICH IS HIS OWNER. HE CAN NEVER BE ABOVE HIS OWNER.WHEN JESUS/THE WORD, HAS ACCOMPLISHED HIS TASK
ON EARTH; HE WILL BE BACK IN SUBJECTION TO GOD.
AND GOD WILL TAKE OVER. AND THE WORD WILL GO BACK INTO GOD. GOD ALL IN ALL; MEANING: HE WILL SHOW HIMSELF AS GOD, AND WILL SPEAK TO US FACE TO FACE.
YOU MAY MARVEL AT THIS. WELL HIS WORD CAME OUT OF GOD TO DO A JOB. WHEN THE JOB IS DONE;
THE WORD WILL RESIDE ONCE MORE IN GOD AS IT WAS.
YOU SEE;GOD AND HIS WORD ARE ONE.Isaiah 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning?
***I the LORD, the first, and *with the last***; ***I am
he***.
Amen; there is none else but HE.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,10:18) MikeB. You think you with your limited knowledge, can outsmart me
to get me into a corner.The truth will always come on top.
My only intention is that the truth come out on top. But with answers like the ones you just gave, you don't need me to “outsmart you” – because you're doing a fine job all by yourself.Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,10:18) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1. Jesus was called “out of Egypt”. So, is EVERYTHING that came “out of Egypt” the antichrist? JESUS DID NOT COME FROM EGYPT.
God called His Son OUT OF EGYPT. Even without that scripture, your claim that all things from Egypt are “bad”, or “evil”, is completely absurd. It has been an absurd claim from the first time you ever made it, and will continue to be an absurd claim until the end of time.The thought that ALL THINGS from one geographical location are bad – as if all things that came from England in 1611 were absolutely wonderful or something, is a dim-witted thought, and laughable.
God did wonderful things in Egypt through Joseph. God made His people prosper while they were in Egypt. God called His nation Israel out of Egypt. Are they “evil” because they came out of Egypt?
Acts 2:5-10 speaks about God-fearing Jews who were from Egypt.
The claim is laughable and weak, Wakeup……. and I don't even know why we're talking about it in the first place.
Here is that commentary again:
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and – This whole clause is wanting in ABC, thirty-one others; some editions; the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Slavonic, Vulgate, Arethas, Andreas, and Primasius.Only ONE of those translations listed above is from Egypt, Wakeup. So you can't say, “Well, the Egyptians have omitted that phrase because they're evil”. The phrase is not in THE MAJORITY of Greek mss and THE MAJORITY of early translations. It isn't just lacking in the Egyptian language.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,10:18) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 2. I showed you that the older Greek mss, along with the earliest translations into Coptic, Latin, Ethiopian, etc. do not have “Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:11. THIS IS JUST WHAT THEY SAY,HAVE YOU CHECKED IT OUT FOR YOURSLEF.
HOW DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THEIR AGENDA IS?
Are you asserting that those extra words ARE there in the older mss and translations, but these “people” thought they could get away with LYING about it and saying they AREN'T there?You want to know about agendas? Read this commentary:
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last,….
These characters….. are left out in the Alexandrian copy, the Complutensian edition, the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Ethiopic versions; but are very fitly retained, to point out the person that speaks; to express his dignity, deity, and eternity….
Do you understand those words, Wakeup? This TRINITARIAN scholar is saying that even though those words aren't in any of the oldest mss and translations, he thinks they should remain in the text anyway because they convey the deity of Jesus Christ. Talk about an AGENDA!
And do you now understand what that statement means for the rest of the Trinitarian-sponsored translations of today? Do you know the vast majority of recent English translations are produced by TRINITARIANS?
And what do the TRINITARIANS want us to believe, Wakeup? That Jesus actually IS God, right?
So why in the world would these newer TRINITARIAN translations leave those words OUT of their Bibles, since those words could be twisted into saying Jesus is God Himself?
Since their AGENDA is to teach people that Jesus IS God Himself, there must be a VERY GOOD reason to leave those words OUT of their translations, right?
And if there was even a GLIMMER of a chance that those words were in John's original Greek text, they would bend over backwards, and do anything possible to make sure those words remained in their Bibles.
Can't you see how far off you are on this?
You are thinking that this “conspiracy group” is conspiring to keep words that belong in the Bible OUT of their Bibles – simply because those words are in the KJV. But you are ignoring the fact that this “conspiracy group” would love nothing more than to be able to have those words in their Bibles.You are simply not thinking straight. In your mind, everything is a conspiracy against your precious KJV. But do you really think these guys would give up that wonderful “Jesus is God” proof text just to spite the KJV?
Think man, think!
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,10:18) WE SHOULD KNOW THAT JESUS WAS DEAD.AND HE CLAIMED TO BE THE FIRST AND THE LAST. THE SAME CLAIM GOD MADE.
When did God ever claim to have been “dead”? Can God die? Can God ever be “dead”?That right there should tell a thinking man that Jesus isn't God. God can never die, and Jesus did.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,10:18) ALL GOD'S POWER
WAS **GIVEN** TO HIM/JESUS. BUT GOD IS STILL HIS GOD
Well, there ya go! The one God GAVE power to cannot be the God who GAVE him that power. And if God is still his God, then he cannot actually BE the God who is his God.Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,10:18) GOD HOLDS THE POWER,AND HE *GAVE* IT TO HIS *LIVING BREATING* WORD.THEREFORE HE IS EQUAL IN POWER WITH GOD.
1 Corinthians 15:27
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been
put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.No matter how much power God GAVE to Jesus, Jesus will never have as much power as the God who GAVE him all that power.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,10:18) AND THE WORD WILL GO BACK INTO GOD.
So at that point, the being of Jesus Christ will no longer exist? You are far off the mark, Wakeup.MikeB.
You will stay where you are and never get anywhere if you keep on depending on those scribes and pharisees.
You are blatantly ignoring John's warnings.He said that there are *MANY* antichrists in his day.
What about today? The ones that are in charge of
translating the bible are ALL ANTICHRISTS.
Meaning against Christ,debunk Christ,tell lies about christ.
Demote Christ.1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there **many antichrists**; whereby we know that it is the last time.
And you are hanging on to them with all your heart.
scriptures dont mean much to you anymore.(you are not alone).
The scribes words become *THE TRUTH* to you. They can not save one soul,but only can send them to hell.Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called
***Sodom and Egypt***,
where also our Lord was crucified.IF GOD CALLED JERUSALEM TODAY SODOM AND EGYPT.
WHAT WOULD HE CALL BABYLON THE GREAT?
IS THERE ANYTHING GOOD COME FROM BABYLON?
I am speaking spiritually here. There are some good people in egypt,and babylon.Lets see if you can undertsand these scriptures.
And this is the old testament mind you.Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things;
***that stretcheth forth the heavens alone***;
***that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself***;BY MYSELF; ALONE. WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANYTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE.(CONFUSED)? I GUESS SO.
Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first,
***I also am the last***.Isaiah 48:13 **Mine hand** also
**hath laid the foundation of the earth**, and
***my right hand hath spanned the heavens***:
when **I call** unto them, they stand up together.WAS ALL THINGS NOT MADE BY HIM? THE WORD MADE FLESH? AND FOR HIM? HOW DO YOU CONNECT THE ABOVE?
Isaiah 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yea,
***I have called him***:
***I have brought him***,
and *he* shall make his way prosperous.WHO IS THIS HIM?
Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, ***there am I***: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, *** hath sent me***.
They always play with their chief card.
if they dont like how the scripture's look: just say it was added on. This same card the muslems use everytime.wakeup.
W
Quote MikeB. You think you with your limited knowledge, can outsmart me
to get me into a corner.The truth will always come on top.Quote
(1. Jesus was called “out of Egypt”. So, is EVERYTHING that came “out of Egypt” the antichrist?)
JESUS DID NOT COME FROM EGYPT.BUT HE WAS JUST HIDING FROM HEROD UNTILL HEROD WAS DEAD.
IF YOU HAVE BEEN HOLIDAYING IN EGYPT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE AN EGYPTIAN.
EVEN ALL ISRAEL CAME OUT OF EGYPT AND MANY WENT TO EGYPT AFTER THE “NEBU ” CONQUEST OF JERUSALEM ,IT SEEMS YOU HAVE NO CLUE OF SCRIPTURESQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2014,07:31) W Quote MikeB. You think you with your limited knowledge, can outsmart me
to get me into a corner.The truth will always come on top.Quote
(1. Jesus was called “out of Egypt”. So, is EVERYTHING that came “out of Egypt” the antichrist?)
JESUS DID NOT COME FROM EGYPT.BUT HE WAS JUST HIDING FROM HEROD UNTILL HEROD WAS DEAD.
IF YOU HAVE BEEN HOLIDAYING IN EGYPT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE AN EGYPTIAN. EVEN ALL ISRAEL CAME OUT OF EGYPT AND MANY WENT TO EGYPT AFTER THE “NEBU ” CONQUEST OF JERUSALEM ,IT SEEMS YOU HAVE NO CLUE OF SCRIPTURES
T.Here again;always the same answer.
You dont understand or you have no clue.Israel came out of egypt and spiritually still worship the calf
of egypt.Till now they are blinded still.
You dont know the scriptures.
You are one of the greatest debunker of the truth
by rejecting the Word of God,at all cost.
Following all the debunkers.
You own a bible just to debunk all what is written.
Scriptures mean nothing to you.wakeup.
W
Quote Israel came out of egypt and spiritually still worship the calf
of egypt.IS THAT WAS TRUE THE APOSTLES WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CHOSEN AND THE NEW CONVERTS THAT CAME LATER NEITHER
Quote (tigger2 @ Jan. 30 2014,10:28) From the OP: Quote GOD AND HIS WORD/JESUS IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST.
THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.Isaiah 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning?
***I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he***.(AND *WITH* THE LAST)(I AM HE).
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, *AND* his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
***I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is
no God***.Revelation 1:11 Saying, ***I am Alpha and Omega, the
first and the last***:
and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; ***I am *THE* first and *THE* last***:
Revelation 1:18
***I am he that liveth, AND WAS DEAD***;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Revelation 22:13 ***I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning
and the end, the first and the last***.All you can do now is to go shopping around to find some contradictions to those statements. Because you hate to see that.
One popular RESPOND is to say; they are added on,
or wrongly translated by the kjv. Do your best.wakeup.
……………………..
“Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,
“This wording at the beginning of the KJV's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any ancient texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in any modern translation or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, 1994” – http://www.bibletexts.com/versecom/rev01v11.htm " class="bbcode-link"> http://www.bibletexts.com/versecom/rev01v11.htm
……………………………………………………
“There are only three pre-ninth century Greek MSS which attest to this passage [Rev. 1:11], and all three of them omit the phrase “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” In addition, many later MSS and versions also omit. Hodges & Farstad's “Majority” text omits, and Robinson & Pierpont's “Byzantine/Majority” text omits. Thus whether one bases one's text largely on pre-ninth century MSS, or whether one bases one's text on the Majority of Greek MSS, either way, this phrase should be omitted.”
-Steven Craig Miller – http://lists.ibiblio.org/piperma….ent.htm " class="bbcode-link"> http://lists.ibiblio.org/piperma….ent.htmThis truth is easily looked up by anyone interested. If, on the other hand, you happen to be a KJV-onlyist, let me know and I have another question for you.
…………………………………………………..
Jesus is never clearly called the Alpha and Omega as God is. It does appear to be a unique title for God.
As for “the first and the last,” however, it appears to be more of a description (“only”).Jehovah calls himself Protos kai ego meta tauta – “First and I [am] hereafter” – Septuagint, Is. 44:6; whereas Jesus calls himself ho protos kai ho eskatos – “The first and the last” – somewhat similar descriptions but much different wording.
Just what the “only” is referring to must be discerned by the reader. Jesus, for example is the “only-begotten Son of God,” the only one to die for all mankind, the only person resurrected directly by God Himself (which context implies at Rev. 1:17, 18), etc.
God is the only person who has always existed, who is the only true God (John 17:3), etc.
As for Rev. 22:13, a number of trinitarian-translated Bibles show that whoever was speaking in that verse was not the speaker at Rev. 22:16 (Jesus).
The RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, and NAB (1991 ed.) show (by quotation marks and indenting) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John’s words. (The Jerusalem Bible and the NJB show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.) Then they show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.So, if you must insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian NEB, RSV, NKJV, and NASB Bibles, you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)
For much more on “Alpha and Omega” in Rev. 22:13 see the rest of my study:
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009….on.html [/url
Hi Tigger.You seem to put all your trust on
those rabies and pharisees.Ignoring John's warning.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,
***even now are there many antichrists***;
whereby we know that it is the last time.Today all in charge are antichrists.
wakeup.
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