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Lol, The book of Enoch is not written by Enoch, do you know anything about the Book of Enoch? When it was written and the several authors that wrote it over several years? HUNDREDS of years after Enoch lived. It’s very content contradicts the bible in so many ways. What Jude said cannot be linked to a direct quote from the Book of Enoch because first of all it is not a direct quote, and second the very similar wording in reference could be something Jude, one of the several authors, and likewise others knew from a passed down tradition.
To try and say that Jude is in support of an ENTIRE book because it contains a similar passage is ludicrous.
You say an adversary means an evil wicked spirit against God, NOT scripture
You say a slanderer means an evil wicked spirit against God, NOT scripture.
Nick you are dodging serious scriptures, and changing the subject and I find that spiritually weak of you.
I just PROVED through scripture that it is NOT God allowing wicked spirits to inflict man for wicked sake.
ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE to HIDE from those scriptures and the WORD OF GOD Nick?
If you keep those words intact then you can properly understand the other words you distort to a point of blasphemy against God.
I keep those words in tact and there are NO scriptures that I dodge, because I don’t have to, as they can be explained.
It is GOD through His Holy Angels that inflicts man and it is done out of JUSTICE and RIGHTEOUSNESS. God brought the plague to Egypt, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. Not fake demons, not fake fallen angels with fake names that self-righteous adulterating Jews made up, so that they could turn God’s punishments into misfortune, and deny their sins.
Stick with the bible Nick, don’t use a book of fables Paul directly warned about “doctrines of demons” created by “liars and hypocrites.”
Hi Jodi,
Jude 14
It was about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied saying
’Behold the Lord came, with many thousands of His Holy Ones, to execute judgement upon all
and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way,
and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him’
So if Jude is spoken by the Spirit, and it quotes the words of an anointed man
you need to be very sure of your ground if you are to judge against it.
What with your accusations against The Words of Jesus as being of the superstition of the time?
Who said that I judge against the word of Jude I said nothing of the sort.
This is similar to your accusations that I hate Enoch.
So your reasoning is that because I say that the Book of Enoch is fables that equates to you that I deny Jude? Ludicrous.
Nick you think the Book of Enoch is the inspired word of God?
You think that people who are blind, deaf, have palsy are possessed with wicked spirits?
You think that wicked demons give wisdom to man and control the weather?
Beelzebub as used in the gospels is just another name for Satan or the devil, and Jesus certainly acknowledges him by saying he has a kingdom. Why was Jesus anointed by God to heal those oppressed of the devil if the devil is only doing God’s will? Jesus makes it plain that the devil has a kingdom that is in opposition to God’s by saying if Satan cast out Satan then how can his kingdom stand? The various authors in the NT understood it this way with statements such as ” for this cause was the Son of God manifest, that he might destroy the works of the devil” and “put on the whole armour of God that you might stand against the wiles of the devil.” And why do the demons in the synoptics fear Jesus and even beg him not to punish them? Why should they fear if they’re only doing God’s will? Why should they be punished?
Jodi, it’s quite plain and easy to see if you let yourself acknowledge the truth, that the theology of the OT and the NT are not the same. And the theology of the OT evolves as time goes along as I pointed out to you in Daniel,which was written in the same era as Enoch, where the angelic princes of Persia and Greece battle Michael and Gabriel. Clearly these are entities opposed to God and not his servants doing his justice or will. God and the devil evolve throughout the Bible and some refer to this as progressive revelation.
And as you’ve pointed out that first century Judaism was greatly influenced by Persian and Greek theology so too was Jesus and Christianity. Where do you think John’s baptism came from? There’s no baptism in the OT and it was something new during that time; a new way of atonement or forgiveness of sin not according to the law. It was practiced in Egypt at the Nile and Hindus had and still have the same type of rituals but it was new to Judaism. The Sadducees and those more adherent to the law had nothing to do with these innovations, but Jesus certainly did and thus a new religion came to be.
You shouldn’t accuse Nick of blasphemy for believing as the NT and Christianity teach and trying to impose Moses on Jesus is denying what Jesus and the gospel are all about.
Hi Andrew He does NOT acknowledge that he has a kingdom,
Here are some biblical FACTS
Beelzebub is said in the OT to be the false god of the people of Ekron
God warned His people not mingle with heathens and learn their ways
Paul warns not to believe in the lying hypocritical Jews that established doctrines about demons.
These Jews were called adulterers because they went after false gods and false demons
God declares to the people that He ALONE they shall fear, they shall not fear other gods nor the demons associated with these gods.
God declares that He ALONE exists with powers and that it is by Him that blessings and cursings come, wounding and healing, life and death.
God declares if you turn from His path He will curse you with madness, blindness, pestilence, leprosy, childnessness, He will turn you over to be slaves by other people, etc..
God’s Holy Angels are called saw-tawn unto the people, they are adversaries that bring God’s Will unto man.
Men are called saw-tawn when they are being adversaries one to another.
Men are called serpents, dogs, brute beasts
Men invent and devise evil, men sin from their own imaginations
sin comes from within the heart of man
The devil means slanderer, and men are repeatedly referred to as liars and slanderers and they are said to do so from WITHIN their OWN hearts.
God’s human messengers, were cast down from God’s Abode when they sinned and prophesied lies, and God set them in darkness.
Men are said to dwell in heaven and be cast down
God sets UP Kings and casts DOWN Kings
God pre-appointed all the territories and boundaries to men’s kingdoms
The beasts and the dragon in Daniel and Revelation are DIRECTLY identified as being MEN
The carnal mind is at enmity against God
God said to Cain, 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
The adversary that God told Cain he needed to rule over was the SIN coming out of his OWN heart.
The adversary after Jesus had fasted for 40 days and was hungry came to him and he RULED over it, and rebuked it and followed God’s will.
Proverbs 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
HIM is the same HIM that God warned Cain about sin that occurs when you are carnally minded. Anyone who is carnally minded is the devil meaning they slander God.
Jesus called Peter Satan/adversary for having IN MIND the THINGS of MEN, meaning he was of carnal mind, and not of a spiritual mind.
The dragon in Revelation is said to be Kings, this dragon is called the Old Serpant, the slanderer, the adversary. All these men are not spiritually minded they are carnal minded.
The slanderer in the beginning of Revelation that was going to throw Christ’s brethren into prison was the emperor. He too was of “him”, a man of carnal mind.
When Jesus SPOKE to those who he called blind hypocrates, VIPERS being of the old serpent -carnally minded, as real serpents are, he spoke to them according to their thoughts/beliefs NOT his beliefs.
What Jesus does acknowledge is that he casts out unclean spirits by the Spirit of God and by this you know the Kingdom of God is come to you. God said HE WOULD WOUND and He would have Mercy and HEAL, and that He would send a man that would do the healing.
Jesus uses the word IF, this is NOT showing that he acknowledges that Beezlebub is real. How could he be, as OT directly tells us he is a FAKE god, and likewise we are also told that Jews would give head to pagan ideas and that they created doctrines of demons that were nothing more but fables works of lies and hypocrisy.
Hi Jodi,
Blasphemy?
The same accusation was leveled against the Master by the legalists who did not know the Spirit.
We were warned.
Hi Jodi,
Yes the kingdom of darkness is in the occupied hearts of men.
God does not give glory to Satan but recovers as much lost territory as He can.
By sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh His Spirit overcame the darkness and brought light.
That light can continue to flourish on earth in the cleansed and filled vessels of the followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.
But few listen.
Legalists cannot.
The god of this world is in the driving seat in men’s hearts and blindness rules.
Hi Jodi,
Biblical facts?
Same old same old..
Beelzebub is a false god …and therefore Beelzebub does not exist.
??
Nick what part of they CANNOT walk, or talk, nor can they do any good or any evil, do you not understand?
What part of God saying that they are INVENTIONS FROM man’s OWN imagination do you seriously not understand?
What part of men being LIARS and HYPOCRITES teaching fables about doctrines of demons, do you NOT understand?
What you say is that the gods are fake in the sense that it is really wicked spirits seducing men into believing in these gods, and they are the ones that are actually casting infirmities for evil sake, but causing people to believe that it is the fake gods doing it. The Jews however, you believe, have it correctly where they do not believe in fake gods, they believe it is the evil spirits that fell from God’s path that are casting infirmities for wicked sake. Do I have that correct?
You have a serious problem though because scripture tells us NOTHING about men being seduced by evil rebel spirit beings to believe in fake gods, WE ARE TOLD that these fake gods are INVENTIONS of MAN from their OWN minds, the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you are trying to teach. Even if these fake gods were produced in people’s minds by evil spirits, you still have the HUGE problem with the FACT that God says they have NO POWER to do good or evil.
Is there a scripture Nick where God says that the gods are really evil spirits that rebelled against Him? NO, God said the gods have NO POWER because they are inventions of man.
You deny the words of the prophet Isaiah,
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Deut 28:27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart.
All the above things listed and there are more in this chapter that are listed are said to come from the LORD, as He said He would bless and he would CURSE those who did not follow His path. He also said that He would wound and He would HEAL!!!
However such books as that of the Book of Enoch say that the above things come from wicked spirits and cause “misfortune” on Israel for wicked sake.
That is a book of blasphemy, the curses CAME from God and they came through RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENTS.
Really Nick, it is God “allowing” wicked spirits who curse for wicked sake, in order to cast his righteous judgments onto to men?
These wicked spirits doing deeds for wicked sake just happen to curse the right people at the right time and in the right way, when they are against God and are fighting against his Will, but all the while they are actually doing God’s Will? God uses their wickedness to bring forth righteous judgments? What a ludicrous doctrine of lies.
Even more crazy is we see God’s Holy angels numerous times carrying out His curses, and they are called by men as saw-tawns. God is NOT using rebel wicked spirits to bring forth cursing, He utilizes His FAITHFUL angels, ANOTHER BIBLICAL FACT!!
2 Kings 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
1 Chronicles 21:12 Either three years’ famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me.
1 Chronicles 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
Psalms 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. 6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
Zechariah 1:11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.
We have read that God’s angels are called saw-tawn/ adversary and the word Satan below is the SAME WORD, and just like the angel of the LORD in Zechariah who walks to and for through the earth watching it, so does the adversary in Job who was in the presence of the LORD. The adversary was ONLY an adversary to man, and this adversary was correct in what he saw in Job. Later Job and the other men in the book equate ALL of Job’s suffering as coming from the LORD.
Job1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Job 12:9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
Job 38:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Job 40:6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? 9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
Nick you have taken God’s FAITHFUL angels and turned them into wicked rebel spirits, you speak EVIL of dignities like a brute beast.
Hi Jodi,
A thousand misunderstood scriptures do not make one truth.
Neither does a million unspiritual rationalisations.
They make you happy? Good.
Hi Jodi,
Fear of the Lord?
What of those who find deceit and superstition in the mouth of His anointed?
Hi Jodi,
You find blasphemy and fables in the book of Enoch, the seventh generation from Adam?
Does your opinion count?
Nick….Job 42:11….plainly shows it was God who brought the evil on Job. He takes responsibility because it was him that sent Satan to do what he did to Job, it was him who even brought up the subject of Job in the first place, when the son’s of God appeared unto him. Saying to Satan “have you considered me servant Job”.
I am in agreement with what Jodi is saying brother. I believe it is people themselve that are evil, and do evil themselves and God himself does punish them and us for evil “WE” OURSELVES are doing, to cause us to repent of the evil we have done.
He has told us the right way to live and when we don’t, walk in his way, we are punished as a result, at least that was the way it worked in my life. I do not believe a bounch of demon beings were running around causing me to sin, i believe it all came from me. I therefore have no excuse for my sins, the guilty party is me.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Yes it is a popular idea that men are created evil and nothing tempts us do evil it is of our nature.
But not true of course.
Nick…I don’t believe men are created evil or good, i do believe we all have the propensity to do either. I THINK WE ARE NUTRAL WHEN WE ARE BORN.
Remember what John said, “ALL” that is in the world, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life are “FROM” the “WORLD”. I believe that is true, NICK.
peace and love to you and yours …….gene
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