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t8,
Oh I see Kerwin. You say that ‘us’ is God x the Angels.
Yet that is your assumption only. You cannot prove that man was made after the likeness of angels. But this is what is written:
What you say is an assumption as your premises themselves are controversial. Neither I, Nick, or others agree with your premises. On the other hand, no one disagrees that the angels, whom first visited Abraham and then Lot, looked like human beings. The bottom line is that humanity bears the likeness of angels. That alone gives my case stronger support than yours.
Jesus is explicitly called a human being and is not explicitly call an angel. Instead he, as a human being, was made a little lower than the angels and only after his death and resurrection was lifted above them to become co-regent with God.
God went to the Jews and then the message he taught among them was spread to the Gentiles via a remnant of the Jews. That message is continuous and does not change. The only change is that a new covenant whereby believers receive the Holy Spirit to live by it is established.
Your teaching not those that teach Jesus is God is part of that message. They are mutations that are believed by those that do not comprehend hard to understand portions of Scripture. There are two reasons a passage is controversial, the first is that those challenge the reader to be righteous, and the second are those that are hard to understand.
There is a third time and that is when irrationality is introduced. In that case anything can be controversial. One of this type is the claim God is a body even though those claim it also claim he created all things. Either one or the other of those claims has to be true but not both. He either created space and therefore there was no place for a body to exist outside of his creation or he did not create space and so there was room for his body inside that non-created space.
I do not know whether you believe space has always existed or that God created space but I am convinced the later is true and therefore God has no body and in that I am in agreement with the message that is still taught among the Jews to this day.
Hi KW,
“The bottom line is that humanity bears the likeness of angels.”
Really?
So easily convinced?
Them please tell us how the angelic cherubim described in Ez 1-10 with their wheels etc resemble men.
Nick,
Thin evidence for such brave statements.
It is not thin evidence unless you consider the word of Scriptures thin evidence.
Jesus used to test to show he was not an immaterial being after his resurrection. The first is he allowed himself to be touched and the second is that he ate. Either you believe Jesus was being honest in proposing those tests or you believe he was engaging in trickery. If you believe Jesus then you believe those two tests determine whether a being is immaterial of physical. Given you believe those two tests determine whether a being is immaterial physical then applying those tests to the angels that visited Lot reveals they are physical as they were touched by Lot as they touched him and they also ate with him and then prepared to go to bed. In a like manner when the disciples touched Jesus and witnessed Jesus eating before them they believe he was not a spirit.
In short if you believe Scripture then you believe angels are physical beings.
Nick,
Hi KW,
“The bottom line is that humanity bears the likeness of angels.”
Really?
So easily convinced?
Them please tell us how the angelic cherubim described in Ez 1-10 with their wheels etc resemble men.
They are not called angels though they are called living creatures. None of the living creatures look like men though they may parts that do. Some non-living creations are called messengers and humanity does not look like those angels.
I do not consider either of them as flaws in my reasoning since us is speaking of the unity of the Spirit and so may refer to any part thereof and not the whole. If a team wins at a sport those players that warmed the benches and did not play also win as part of the team.
Hi KW,
So on the basis of a few examples you are emboldened to teach that men are like angels?
Is the quality of your research so shallow?
Hi KW,
Are physical or can be physical when God chooses?
Stop applying your simplistic rules to the ways of God
Hi t8,
“Nick, if Christ/christos means ‘Anointing’, then how can Jesus be the anointing if he was just a plain man that became anointed? The anointing is something or someone else surely if a person like the man Jesus receives it.”
What God has joined together let no man put asunder.
Jesus and the anointing are one and one with God in that anointing Spirit.
Nick,
Hi KW,
Are physical or can be physical when God chooses?
Stop applying your simplistic rules to the ways of God
There are those that claim that angels can become physical beings but are by nature immaterial beings. The same is said of Jesus because he passes through his walls. Passing through walls is not evidence as things that appear solid to us are not solid. In reality there is more space in a solid item than solid particles. God sees the space and controls the particles even though human beings do not have the ability to do either. A physical body passes through a wall because God chooses to move the particles and associated fields so that those each solid creation does not collide with one another.
We, in this age, have the knowledge it can be done but we also have the knowledge we are incapable of doing it. The people of that age lacked our knowledge of the details but knew God had the power to pass one solid item through another without harming either though they themselves could not do so.
Angels are visible beings but humans cannot see them because God hides from out sight. You learn that when Baalam’s As saw the angel and yet Baalam did not because God hid the being from his sight. Similarly, God hid Jesus’ appearance from the two disciples who walked with him down the road though he did not physically change Jesus’ apearance. God did not change the angel that Balaam saw from immaterial to physical but instead revealed to the prophet the creature his donkey already saw.
A second argument against believing that God gives physical form to immaterial being is that it would render null and void Jesus’ tests to prove he was not a spirit. I could not say the same if he used the more specific word of phantasm as a synonym of the word ghost but instead he chose to use the word spirit as a synonym of immaterial being and so made the tests applicable to all spirit beings. To support Jesus’ claim we know that God cannot be touched and does not eat.
Nick,
Hi KW,
So on the basis of a few examples you are emboldened to teach that men are like angels?
Is the quality of your research so shallow?
There is not much research to it as Scripture states that the angels look like humans and that is not the only case.
So it follows that since angels look like human then humans look like those angels.
Why do you have so much trouble accepting that?
Do you also have the idea that angels were created before humankind?
Hi t8,
“Nick, if Christ/christos means ‘Anointing’, then how can Jesus be the anointing if he was just a plain man that became anointed? The anointing is something or someone else surely if a person like the man Jesus receives it.”
What God has joined together let no man put asunder.
Jesus and the anointing are one and one with God in that anointing Spirit.
Hi Nick,
Because Jesus has become one with the spirit of God’s anointing he thus
became one with God in that anointing spirit that he became one with.
Is that what you believe? I don’t even know what that means ???___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi Nick,
It sounds like you are saying “Jesus” -AND- “The Christ” became one with God in God’s HolySpirit.
But isn’t Jesus “The Christ”? It sounds like you are trying to make God’s own spirit(=HolySpirit)
into “the Christ” also saying “The Christ” a different spirit from Jesus. Is this what you are saying?____________
God Bless
Ed JHi Ed,
The word was made flesh.
Jesus became Jesus Christ and one with God forever.
We are invited to join in that eternal fellowship in and of the Spirit.
Hi Nick,
Do you believe “the spirit of Christ” is a different spirit from the spirit that Jesus was born with?
please answer
Hi Ed,
Yes.
His own spirit left at calvary as happens at the death of all men.
The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of anointing.
Jesus of Nazareth was anointed at the Jordan.
Nick,
The Spirit that he surrendered to God at Calvary is the breath of life that God breath into the nostrils of mankind. Spirit is just a synonym of breath just like breath is a form of wind.
I short you are confusing two different spirits. One is the breath of life that bears witness to our works and the other is the spirit we live by whether is be a godly spirit or a ungodly one. The human spirit is mutable but God’s is always righteous.
Proverbs 16:18 speaks of the human spirit and provides a humble spirit as an example of a godly spirit and a proud spirit as an example of a godless spirit.
Ed,
Hi Nick,
It sounds like you are saying “Jesus” -AND- “The Christ” became one with God in God’s HolySpirit.
But isn’t Jesus “The Christ”? It sounds like you are trying to make God’s own spirit(=HolySpirit)
into “the Christ” also saying “The Christ” a different spirit from Jesus. Is this what you are saying?If that is what Nick claims I agree with him as “the Christ” is a mantle that Jesus the Son of David wears. That mantle is the Spirit of God and so in itself is God. Jesus is the only one, except God, that has ever exhibited it at its fullest. Believers wear it as well but they reveal it to a lesser extent as it is only through faith in Jesus that they become sons of God.
The OT teaches us God’s Spirit preexists Jesus conception but it does not say that Christ the Son of David does. Instead it testifies that a time will come, and we know has now come, when he will come to be.
Do you believe that prophecy?
If you believe then you do not believe that Jesus existed before it.
HI kw,
“I short you are confusing two different spirits. One is the breath of life that bears witness to our works [WHERE IS THIS WORK SPOKEN OF?]and the other is the spirit we live by whether is be a godly spirit or a ungodly one [WHERE DOES IT SAY NATURAL MAN ALSO HAS EITHER A GODLY OR UNGODLY SPIRIT?]The human spirit is mutable but God’s is always righteous.”KERWIN……it says,”THE SPIRIT OF MAN IS THE CANDEL OF THE LORD, SEARCHING ALL THE INWARD PARTS OF THE BELLY”
Explain how you get you assumptions from that.
A candle is not, THE BREATH OF LIFE, NOR THE BREATH OF ANYTHING, it is a candel meaning a “LIGHT” that gives us our mental understanding (intellect) which inables OR GIVES us the ABILITY to search the inward parts the belly, (SIMPLY PUT, TO RATIONALIZE HIDDEN THINGS OUT ). It says it comes from the LORD, and when we die “IT” the SPIRIT, goes back to where “IT” came from, to him who gave “IT” (SPIRIT), “IT” GIVES US OUR INTELLEGNCE WE HAVE, it is From GOD, “it” can never die because “it” belongs to GOD, AND IS FROM GOD, AND RETURNS TO GOD, SPIRIT IS WHAT LIFE “ITSELF” IS. No physical then that has life can live without spirit in it, from one living cell to a GIANT WHALE, WHITOUT SPIRIT FROM GOD NO PHYSICAL LIVING THING HAS LIFE IN ITSELF ie, it’s SOUL.
LIFE “is” SPIRIT and WORDS ARE THE EXPRESSIONS OF THAT LIVING SPIRIT IN A BEING, RATHER GOD OR ANGEL, OR MAN. MAKES NO DIFFERENCE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT, IT’S JUST WHAT TYPE OR KIND IS IN THE “BEING” it will EVIDENCE ITSELF, AND YOU CAN KNOW WHAT KIND OR TYPE OF SPIRIT WHICH IS EFFECTING THE PERSON, THERE WORDS GIVE THE SPIRITS IN THEM AWAY. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
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