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I'm sorry, the Philippians passage is not a pat-answer for every posed question here in the OP.
Everything that is stated regarding Jesus from the original poster IS TRUE. The scripture ref's given do not lie. You may not like what they are saying, but they DO say that Jesus didn't have certain knowledge, for instance. Those are not the poster's words – those are from scripture.
Regarding Jesus not having certain knowledge – how do you explain that? Was it just the “human” side of Jesus that didn't know certain things? I find this interesting how “part” of Jesus could know something but the other “part” of him be in the dark. Can the right hand really not know what the left hand is doing?
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 06 2007,10:36) Can one be fully God, or fully have the nature of God, and yet be ignorant, (Mark 13:32)? Can one be fully God, or fully have the nature of God, and yet be powerless, (John 5:30)?
Can one be fully God, or fully have the nature of God, and yet lack wisdom, (Luke 2:52)?
Can one be fully God, or fully have the nature of God, and yet need perfecting, (Hebrews 5:9)?
Can one be fully God, or fully have the nature of God, and yet die, (Revelations 2:8)?
These are honest questions.Trinitarians say that Jesus is “fully” God. Then how come he died? How come he didn't have certain knowledge? How come he was tempted?
Here's a challenge – in addition to the Philippians passage, what other scripture shows that Jesus was both “fully” God and “fully” man?
Where does it say that God can be tempted in Jesus? Where does it say that God can die in Jesus?
I've never understood this. Maybe I will this time around. If someone can make sense of it for me, I'd appreciate it. My brain does accept logic and reason – but I get lost when I am asked to accept nonesense.
Hi,
Jesus said he is Son of Man.
Jesus said he is Son of God.
Jesus said he had flesh and bones.Jesus did not say he is God.
Men say that.Whom should we believe?
Amen, Nick!
And if Jesus is not God – who is he? He is just as you say – Son of both God and Mary – a unique Son – a firstfruits.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 10 2007,18:44) I'm sorry, the Philippians passage is not a pat-answer for every posed question here in the OP. Everything that is stated regarding Jesus from the original poster IS TRUE. The scripture ref's given do not lie. You may not like what they are saying, but they DO say that Jesus didn't have certain knowledge, for instance. Those are not the poster's words – those are from scripture.
Regarding Jesus not having certain knowledge – how do you explain that? Was it just the “human” side of Jesus that didn't know certain things? I find this interesting how “part” of Jesus could know something but the other “part” of him be in the dark. Can the right hand really not know what the left hand is doing?
I like what they say fine. I don't like what they are being used to say. They are taken completely out of context, and are being interpretted wrongly. It's just really that simple. I made some very valid points in my post, and I don't see you or anyone else addressing them.Your non-contextual claims cannot invalidate the entire context of scripture. You have to address ALL of scripture in order to properly interpret one verse.
I suggest more study for many here.
Regarding Jesus not having full knowldge, perhaps you should read more closely the Philippians passage which you so blithely disregarded. It is obvious you do not see the full implications of it.
Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,08:51) I suggest more study for many here.
And I suggest more humility for some.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2007,09:07) Quote (lamontre @ June 11 2007,08:51) I suggest more study for many here.
And I suggest more humility for some.
It does not require humility to recognize, and overcome error; just study.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2007,09:32) Hi LAM,
Is not understanding and knowledge also grace or just the fruit of our works?
Oh yes, but we are still commanded to be instructed in right doctrine. I don't even believe Paul was simply suddenly knowedgeable. He too studied scripture. Of course, without the new birth, one cannot see, and right doctrinal knowledge is not recieved through mental ascent, I agree.1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Hi LAM,
Jesus said we must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have life.
His words are spirit and life
Man cannot live on bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God.Prov3
” 5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.”
” 13Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. “
Christ calls scripture wisdom.
Luke 11:49
Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:BUt wisdom too is a gift.
1Cor 12
” 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; “
Not by might nor by strength but by My Spirit.[Zech]
Hi Lamontre,
Welcome. I believe in the Trinity as confessed in the ecumenical creeds, and I hope you do too. It's been painful to watch the dialogue in response to your posts, as nobody is actually responding to the statements of Scripture, but I guess that's just how things tend to flow around here (but now always). I hope you have the stomach for it.
More importantly, I hope you've come here to proclaim the truth of the Trinity and to correct those who have been deceived into denying that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the one true God.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
You say
“I hope you've come here to proclaim the truth of the Trinity “
Can you show us where this NEW GOD is in Scripture?
Surely you do not just rely on human creeds?2 Peter 2:2,3
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepurte. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and theie destruction has not been sleeping.Creeds = stories made up by men.
2 Timothy 4:3.4
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.Myth = legendary narrative explaining a belief.
Your creeds are nothing but stories made up by men who then have passed this legendary narrative on to generations upon generations of people who's ears are itching…….
when you make Jesus to be a God you are giving him an advantage he did not have and dening his total likeness of us, I will even go further and say Jesus never did a mircale in his life it was God who did them for him, didn't he say he could do NOTHING OF HIMSELF God was with Jesus not that was God just as He was with the deciples and confirmed the words by the mericals that follow them. why can't people see Jesus was a man exatly like us and had no advantage over us and he truly did die somthing that God could not do because it say's He (God) upholds all things by the power of His Might, so if He truly died all things would cease to exist, and we know Jesus truly died because it say's he emptied out his soul unto death (notice it say's soul not flesh) he was truly dead or why would he have agonized about dieing the way he did if he know he really could not die because he was God. God the father was certanly with Jesus and indwalt him through holy spirit just as He can us also but that would not make us a God and it didn't make jesus one either. It's important for us to see it was Jesus' FAITH that saved him not the the power of being a God. but a reliance on the ONLY TRUE GOD just as he said.
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