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Quote (Gene @ Feb. 17 2010,21:01) [GOD HAS A (COUNSELED) WILL NOT A “FREE” ONE.
GeneThis is pure foolishness!
Some force controls God?
To what extent will you carry this madness?Are you saying that God is controlled by some force that councils his will?
So this council of Gods will is greater than God?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2010,05:21) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 17 2010,21:01) [GOD HAS A (COUNSELED) WILL NOT A “FREE” ONE.
GeneThis is pure foolishness!
Some force controls God?
To what extent will you carry this madness?Are you saying that God is controlled by some force that councils his will?
So this council of Gods will is greater than God?
WJ
WJ………No i did not say that, the scripture I quoted said that. It is your choice by your (captivated WILL) to except that or not. GOD (IS) controlled BY HIS WILL and HIS WILL IS controlled BY HIS Intellects (Spirits) Seven of them to be exact, all feed into his reasoning and (CAUSE) HIS WILL. And He then act on that, as it says “FOR GOD DOES (ALL) THINGS (AFTER) THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS WILL> We also operate the same way Our reasonings feed into our minds and our wills then are effected by them. CAUSE and EFFECT is TRUE, both of GOD and MAN, and ALL things. NOTHING “FREE ABOUT IT. Why do you think GOD can be so deffinet about what He does , it is because He (CAUSE IT TO HAPPEN) In Christ Jesus and Us also. Our falsely assumed “Free” Wills do not exist. To say “FREE WILL” is in itself and OXYMORON. Not such thing exists.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2010,18:47) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 18 2010,13:01) WJ…………No God's will is not a “FREE” WILL either. Have you not read this. “FOR GOD DOES ALL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS WILL. Get it?, GOD HAS A (COUNSELED) WILL NOT A “FREE” ONE. The term “FREE WILL” IS A OXYMORON. No such thing exists as a “FREE” WILL. ONLY INFLUENCED WILL EXIST IF YOUR REMOVE (INFLUENCE) THEN THERE WOULD BE (NO) WILL AT ALL. Think about it WJ.
Are you not just playing with words?Influence simply gives us the options to which we choose.
If God influences me in my Spirit and the Devil in my flesh and mind, then am I not free to choose which influence I will obey?
t8………You will (ALWAYS) choose what (INFLUENCES) YOU THE MOST. No matter what it is. Our Wills are (NOT) FREE they are captivated WILLS> Adding the WORD (FREE) to a WILL is in itself an OXYMORON. Because if a will was (FREE) it simply would (NOT) be a WILL, either for GOD or MAN> THINK ABOUT IT T8peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 19 2010,05:50) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2010,18:47) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 18 2010,13:01) WJ…………No God's will is not a “FREE” WILL either. Have you not read this. “FOR GOD DOES ALL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS WILL. Get it?, GOD HAS A (COUNSELED) WILL NOT A “FREE” ONE. The term “FREE WILL” IS A OXYMORON. No such thing exists as a “FREE” WILL. ONLY INFLUENCED WILL EXIST IF YOUR REMOVE (INFLUENCE) THEN THERE WOULD BE (NO) WILL AT ALL. Think about it WJ.
Are you not just playing with words?Influence simply gives us the options to which we choose.
If God influences me in my Spirit and the Devil in my flesh and mind, then am I not free to choose which influence I will obey?
t8………You will (ALWAYS) choose what (INFLUENCES) YOU THE MOST. No matter what it is. Our Wills are (NOT) FREE they are captivated WILLS> Adding the WORD (FREE) to a WILL is in itself an OXYMORON. Because if a will was (FREE) it simply would (NOT) be a WILL, either for GOD or MAN> THINK ABOUT IT T8peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Hi Gene,It seems your own will influences you more than Bible verses do; right?
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2010,15:51) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 18 2010,12:55) To all FREE WILLER'S………….Why can't you produce (ONE) scripture that say we Have a (FREE) WILL. Surely such an important subject would have been spoken of in scriptures by GOD or His true servants, show one place where GOD says we have a (FREE WILL) or better yet Show one scripture where GOD Says that HE has a “FREE” WILL. Some of you believe it, but produce (NO) Scripture dealing with the subject of a “FREE WILL”. Is it the Blind leading the blind ? No one even commits on all the scriptures we have produces either, why is that? Ignoring posted scriptures showing we do not have “FREE” Will is what Pride filled People cant stand. Jesus sure did not put his trust in (HIS) WILL at all, “THE SON OF MAN CAME (NOT) TO DO (HIS) WILL , BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT HIM”, Jesus didn't think His will was important in the salvation process and He even went so far as to put it to death. That is all we ask is that ONE SCRIPTURE says GOD gave us a “FREE” WILL. Come on you bible gurus post it , don't try to twist up scriptures to try to make it say something it does not really say. IMO
Hi Gene,It doesn't matter how many verses anybody produces you have already have your mind made up!
I offer Proof of God's existence to Stuart and he does the same thing as you.
I even proved “Free Will” using your own words! HOW STUBBORN WE(Gene and Jodi) ARE!
NOWHERE does it say 'NO Free Will' AS IS YOUR FAULTY ASSERTION! Why don't you TRY to discredit these verses as well!1Cor.16:12 As touching our brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren:
but “HIS WILL” was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time.Lev:22:29: And when ye will offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving unto the LORD, offer it AT YOUR OWN WILL.
Josh:24:15: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom YE WILL serve;
whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood,
or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.Jn:5:40: And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life.
Gen:34:15: But in this will we consent unto you: If “YE WILL” be as we be, that every male of you be circumcised;
Ex:19:5: Now therefore, if “YE WILL” obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant,
then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:Lev:26:14: But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
Lev:26:23: And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
Lev:26:27: And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
Num:32:20: And Moses said unto them, If ye will do this thing, if ye will go armed before the LORD to war,
Num:32:23: But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.
Deut:11:28: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God,
but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.1Sam:12:14: If ye will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against
the commandment of the LORD, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the LORD your God:1Sam:12:15: But if ye will not obey the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the commandment of the LORD,
then shall the hand of the LORD be against you, as it was
against your fathers.Deut:31:29: For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves,
and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days;
because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
ED J……Your quotes deal with the will in man and Have nothing to Do with a (FREE) WILL Haven't you noticed that not one scripture uses the word (FREE) that is Just your assumption that is what it means. As Jodi said We are (NOT) saying a WILL does not exist , what we are saying is that it is (NOT) a “Free Will”. That is the POINT were making , not do we have a WILL or NOT> No one, not your or anyone else has proven or posted scripture that say (OUR) WILL are FREE WILLS. Man (PRIDE) Wants to believe that, because he thinks he is a GOD unto HIMSELF and HAS POWER to Chose HIS SALVATION and DESTINY by His falsely Presumed “FREE WILL” existence. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. While men are allowed liberty by GOD to exercise their captivated WILLS, to a point, Those WILLS are FAR From BING FREE WILLS. IMOQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 19 2010,06:06) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 19 2010,05:50) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2010,18:47) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 18 2010,13:01) No such thing exists as a “FREE” WILL
Are you not just playing with words?
Our Wills are (NOT) FREE
It seems your “own will” influences you more than Bible verses do; right?
Hi Gene,Lev:22:21: And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a
freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.Num:15:3: And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow,
or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:Deut:12:17: Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil,
or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest,
nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:Ezra:7:16: And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon,
with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly
for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:Lev:23:38: Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows,
and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.Lev:22:23: Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts,
that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.Lev:22:18: Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them,
Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation
for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;Ezra:7:13: I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm,
which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.Ezra:8:28: And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also;
and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.Deut:12:6: And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings
of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:Ps:119:108: Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
Ezra:1:4: And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver,
and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.Ezra:3:5: And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts
of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.Deut:23:23: That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering,
according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.Deut:16:10: And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering
of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:2Chron:31:14: And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings
of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.Num:29:39: These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings,
for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.Gal:4:31: So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Gal:4:26: But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Jn:8:32: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jn:8:36: If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J……….Not one scripture that say we all Have a (FREE WILL) (IN) Us. A freewill offering is a offering from the SELF and Has nothing to do with a WILL in US existing in a “FREE” STATE, If a person thinks he wants to give a Offering THAT WAS FREE of the LAW requirements then that was considered as a free will (Offering) another words He had freedom to do it. But that has (NOTHING) to do with a WILL Existing in a “FREE” STATE within US. Because GOD give us Liberty to exercise Our CAPTIVATED WILLS , in no way say that, that WILL is FREE it Self. Your examples have nothing to do with THE WILL IN US AS BEING FREE IN IT SELF. Your confusing GOD allowing us Liberty to exercise our captivated WILLS as the same as us having a FREE WILL. Your have produced NO scripture that says (WE HAVE “FREE WILL (IN) US. Grabbing scriptures and trying to make them say what in fact they do no Specifically say is only diverting from the real point. Many here do that and simply further confusions.
Gal 4:31…….That scripture is discussing Childern of Hagar, the bond women and the free women was Sarah. . Again your confusing subject matter. This has nothing to do with Us having “FREE WILL” at all.
Gal 4: 26………..does not speak of any 'FREE WILLS” in anyone.Jn 8:32….> and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free, of what> Lies, again this has nothing to do with “FREE WILLS” existing in anyone.
JN 8:36……> if the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (But if we have “FREE WILL'S” ) AS you falsely assume what are we being set free from. Let me tell you our (CAPTIVATED WILLS). Jesus delivers us from this captivated state unto another captivated state which is of GOD. Again A “FREE WILL” HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY THING YOU POSTED. A FREE WILL IS AN OXYMORON, iT SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST. IMO
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 19 2010,15:10) Ed J……….Not one scripture that say we all Have a (FREE WILL) (IN) Us. A freewill offering is a offering from the SELF and Has nothing to do with a WILL in US existing in a “FREE” STATE, If a person thinks he wants to give a Offering THAT WAS FREE of the LAW requirements then that was considered as a free will (Offering) another words He had freedom to do it. But that has (NOTHING) to do with a WILL Existing in a “FREE” STATE within US. Because GOD give us Liberty to exercise Our CAPTIVATED WILLS , in no way say that, that WILL is FREE it Self. Your examples have nothing to do with THE WILL IN US AS BEING FREE IN IT SELF. Your confusing GOD allowing us Liberty to exercise our captivated WILLS as the same as us having a FREE WILL. Your have produced NO scripture that says (WE HAVE “FREE WILL (IN) US. Grabbing scriptures and trying to make them say what in fact they do no Specifically say is only diverting from the real point. Many here do that and simply further confusions. Gal 4:31…….That scripture is discussing Childern of Hagar, the bond women and the free women was Sarah. . Again your confusing subject matter. This has nothing to do with Us having “FREE WILL” at all.
Gal 4: 26………..does not speak of any 'FREE WILLS” in anyone.Jn 8:32….> and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free, of what> Lies, again this has nothing to do with “FREE WILLS” existing in anyone.
JN 8:36……> if the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (But if we have “FREE WILL'S” ) AS you falsely assume what are we being set free from. Let me tell you our (CAPTIVATED WILLS). Jesus delivers us from this captivated state unto another captivated state which is of GOD. Again A “FREE WILL” HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY THING YOU POSTED. A FREE WILL IS AN OXYMORON, iT SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST. IMO
Hi Gene,You have clearly made up your own non-Biblical doctrine?
You think these verses speak of a captive will as well?
You may not believe in “Free Will”, but God's word clearly does!Ezra:7:13: I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites,
in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.1Cor.8:3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
2Cor.811-12 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will,
so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. For if there be first a willing mind,
it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.1Thess 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you,
not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.God bLess
Ed J
http://wwww.holycitybiblecode.orgED J………STILL NOT (ONE) WORD SHOWING WE POSES A (WILL) THAT IS A (FREE WILL). Again your confusing a liberty to do what our WILLS want to do, with US AS HAVING a WILL THAT IS “FREE” IN US. GOD GRANTS US LIBERTY TO US OUR WILLS , BUT IN THE END ONLY HIS WILL WILL BE DONE. Why is it so important to you to posses a “FREE WILL” a Will FREE of any constraints imposed on it by GOD, is it because man is a GOD unto HIMSELF. Paul said he found (NO) GOOD DWELLING IN HIS BODY, WHY? BECAUSE TO (WILL) WAS PRESENT. But you and some here cherish you falsely assumed (FREE WILLS.
The question is not if we have a falsely assumed “FREE” WILLS it is What is driving Our CAPTIVATED WILLS> Is it GOD or the SELF, but either way it is (NOT) FREE of INFLUENCES and therefore it is controlled by our thoughts and is far from free. A will does not exist that is (FREE) or it simply would not be a WILL. To say a WILL is FREE is an OXYMORON. THE very word WILL itself shows it is the result of (INFLUENCES) we are all held captive by our WILLS, Question is Who's CAPTIVITY ARE WE. GOD or the WORLDS. Jesus came and led CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE. That captivity is the CAPTIVE WILL of MAN> Hardly a “FREE” WILL.
gene
there no scriptures were it says “captivated will”the only verses i found is ;Pr 5:19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
may her breasts satisfy you always,
may you ever be captivated by her love.
Pr 5:20 Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress?
Why embrace the bosom of another man’s wife?this is the only” influence will” in scriptures i could find;1Co 12:2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols
if there is no freewill,and no captivated will no influenced will then there is no will at all and we are robots.
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 18 2010,13:45) [GOD (IS) controlled BY HIS WILL and HIS WILL IS controlled BY HIS Intellects (Spirits) Seven of them to be exact, all feed into his reasoning and (CAUSE) HIS WILL.
GeneYou just said it again!
““GOD IS CONTROLLED BY HIS WILL HIS WILL IS CONTROLLED BY HIS SPIRITS”
ANATHEMA!
God is not “CONTROLLED” period! He has control over his own thoughts!
WJ
gene
God as no counsel who counsels him.read your bible
God is the one who give counsel,advise,wisdom,guidance,directions,approval,understanding,knowledge.
gene
Heb:10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment
and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.in your theory of influences this can not happen ,not guilty all the time ,looks like that is not scriptural
Terraricca……..If we sin (WILLFULLY) Has nothing to do with us Having a (FREE WILL) (IN) US> As i explained earlier GOD allows us LIBERTY, to do our (CAPTIVATED WILLS) to a point. that in no way means we posses (FREE Wills) YOU OR ED J HAVE never posted (ONE) Scripture that say we HAS a “FREE” WILL (IN) US. Nowhere in scripture is there ONE word saying WE POSSES A “FREE WILL”, YOu and ED J…Have yet to produce (ONE SCRIPTURE) DEALING WITH MAN HAVING A “FREE” WILL (in) HIM.
Ask yourself how do we sin (WILLFULLY) is it not because or will are captivated and this captivity cause us to sin. Believe what PAUL said , He reckons no good was in his flesh because to (WILL) was Present. But you think that is How you save yourself by your falsely called “FREE WILL CHOICES. IMO
gene
you are interpreting the philosophy of freewill,i do not,
what i say is that we have freewill to decide if we want to serve God or not;
Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”freewill to chose wich master you want to serve,do you understand that ??
all the influences are outside of you, the will is inside of you.
Terraricca………Wrong again all influences are (NOT) outside of you , in fact most are (INSIDE OF YOU). “Not that which goes into a man defiles the man but that which comes out of His mouth, for it proceeds forth from his Heart, and that is what defiles the Man. You are influenced by your thinking terraricca, perhaps that is why you can understand we have not a (FREE WILL) but an Influenced WILL. You will alway chose what is in your mind the most we are creatures of thought and those thoughts are what drives and influences us.”So a man thinks so he is”. IMO
Terraricca…..Again Just talk, show us scripture that back you up, i personally don't want to here you own view. My bible say ” FOR GOD DOES (ALL) THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS WILL> BUT you say GOD WILL does NOT COUNSEL HIM. And Now you are saying God is the one who gives counsel, advise, wisdom, guidance, directions, approval, understanding, and Knowledge, that is right , but how could he give what he himself does not have. And what good would it do you if he did give it to you, you would rather follow your OWN so-called “FREE WILL” anyway. You don't need GOD'S WILL yours is sufficient for you right, and why should GOD give you any thing seeing Your (OWN) “FREE” WILL is sufficient to Make Right (Choices). But those who believe in GOD and understand His words Know this “FOR GOD WORKS IN US (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE, THAT IS SUFFICIENT FOR US WHO BELIEVE, WE KNOW THAT IN OUR FLESH DWELLS NO GOOD THING (BECAUSE) TO (WILL) IS PRESENT IN US> But you unlike Paul trust in your (OWN) So-called “FREE” WILL, and it capabilities to make right choices. IMO
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2010,02:38) Terraricca………Wrong again all influences are (NOT) outside of you , in fact most are (INSIDE OF YOU). “Not that which goes into a man defiles the man but that which comes out of His mouth, for it proceeds forth from his Heart, and that is what defiles the Man. You are influenced by your thinking terraricca, perhaps that is why you can understand we have not a (FREE WILL) but an Influenced WILL. You will alway chose what is in your mind the most we are creatures of thought and those thoughts are what drives and influences us.”So a man thinks so he is”. IMO
Good post brother Gene.peace and love to you
Adam
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