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GENE
this will help to see that God wants to be worship from people freewill choice and serve him forever1Ki 8:47 and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their conquerors and say, ‘We have sinned, we have done wrong, we have acted wickedly’;
2Ch 6:37 and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their captivity and say, ‘We have sinned, we have done wrong and acted wickedly’;
Job 34:33 Should God then reward you on your terms,
when you refuse to repent?
You must decide, not I;
so tell me what you know.
Job 36:10 He makes them listen to correction
and commands them to repent of their evil.
Job 42:6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”
Isa 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
declares the LORD.
Jer 5:3 O LORD, do not your eyes look for truth?
You struck them, but they felt no pain;
you crushed them, but they refused correction.
They made their faces harder than stone
and refused to repent.
Jer 15:19 Therefore this is what the LORD says:
“If you repent, I will restore you
that you may serve me;
if you utter worthy, not worthless, words,
you will be my spokesman.
Let this people turn to you,
but you must not turn to them.
Eze 14:6 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Repent! Turn from your idols and renounce all your detestable practices!
Eze 18:30 “Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfallgene
now with those scriptures i have shown you ,tell me which ones are not leaving it up to us of are own freewill to come to God and be his servant,and be instructed by God,and rewarded by God for choosing his ways.
there are more scriptures but if you do not believe those you will not believe them neither
i know that freewill is no written in the bible ,but the meaning is,
influence will ,also is not find in the scriptures but the meaning is only related to the wicket and evil.Ephesians 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Man is born with a body that he must SERVE in order to live, just like the animals. Man is born with a will that Naturally draws him to serve his flesh, this makes his will NOT FREE but rather CHAINED. We are born in weakness and our wills are BOUND as slaves of sin to SERVE our bodies. By our very own nature we are drawn to serve our flesh and we live in fear of death.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
Being raised with immortal flesh the will of man that Jesus was born with is no longer. Jesus no longer lives with a body that calls him to serve it. He no longer lives with a body that has instinctual fears of death. The Life of God's Spirit dwells in the incorruptible body of Jesus fully uniting Jesus with the Father.
Romans 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
Paul spoke of a challenge that still existed in his flesh. Though he had been given the truth and had faith in God and knew that one day he will be given a new body, he still had a body of corruptible flesh that drew him by his nature to serve it. The Sons of God have received a calling of faith building and character building. They have received a calling of proof to how our BODIES NEED God's Spirit of Life in order to be FREE from SIN, free from a body that draws us to serve the wrong god.
Paul eagerly was waiting for a new body, an incorruptible body. For he knew that in that new body there would be nothing that would separate him from the Father. Having faith that he would receive a new body strengthened his mind to have reason and purpose for denying his flesh. But no matter what he did Paul could not escape the draws that the body makes, this is why he called himself a wretched man, and was eager to receive his change.
Our WILLS by nature are drawn to serve our flesh, just like an animal is drawn to serve it's own flesh. Our wills are chained by our corruptible flesh.
Man's will is hardly free, it is bound not only by it's own flesh, but it is bound through all influences. Children grow up having no choice in who their parents are and how their parents treat and instruct them. When a person makes a CHOICE they are BOUND to the calls of their flesh, and they are bound to the INFORMATION they have received through the years, whether it be education, the way other people have treated them, and all matters of experiences they have gone through.
When an individual goes to make a CHOICE the choice is not decided in freedom, it is pulled out from within the brain, and that brain since it was born has been bound to its body and to the information it has received from the world.
When an individual goes to make a CHOICE the choice is decided in LIMITATION!!
Jodi
this is your quote;Man's will is hardly free, it is bound not only by it's own flesh, but it is bound through all influences. Children grow up having no choice in who their parents are and how their parents treat and instruct them. When a person makes a CHOICE they are BOUND to the calls of their flesh, and they are bound to the INFORMATION they have received through the years, whether it be education, the way other people have treated them, and all matters of experiences they have gone through.
When an individual goes to make a CHOICE the choice is not decided in freedom, it is pulled out from within the brain, and that brain since it was born has been bound to its body and to the information it has received from the world.
When an individual goes to make a CHOICE the choice is decided in LIMITATION!!
men is born as flesh and has the boundaries of the flesh just like animals they have to eat ,sleep,drink,breath, but they have to do more because they have been create to the image of God.
they start on the wrong foot,and it is a long way back,they broken the law of love now we have to look for and take it back to reconcile with God.
the influences are from the devil, God does not influence no one we are influence by our own mind and heart that is how we sin ,influence by evil,if we do not sin it is because we rejected the evil influence.
freewill is only in the choice between doing Gods will versus our will,we have to go to God willingly with a open heart in away voluntary against all evil influences that there could be to do is will and by doing so you give up yours,
we have the power to resist anything we want to, within the limits of the human structure,of cause there are the evil influences who says do not,say not ,want not ,need not ,you know the words “were there is a will there is a way” you think this is not true??
Jodi……….Amen Sis………..There exist no such thing as a so-called “FREE WILL” only a captivated Will Exists. This is one of the greatest Lies every taught by false religions. It cause people to focus on the self, instead of GOD, it is simply the flesh trying to glorify itself. IMO
terraricca……….Absolutely non of what you quoted address the Fact of a so-called “FREE” WILL. YOUR grabbing for straws to try to support you false teachings. IMO
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 17 2010,06:31) the influences are from the devil, God does not influence no one we are influence by our own mind and heart that is how we sin ,influence by evil,if we do not sin it is because we rejected the evil influence.
Terraricca………You say GOD does not (INFLUENCE) NO ONE. Evidently You have never looked up the WORD (GRACE). Start there first, Then GO and read again where it says, “FOR GOD (WORKS) IN US BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE”. Then ask yourself what does that all mean> God is the potter and we the clay < he does what ever he choses to do with or without our falsely called "FREE WILL" Permissions. IMOgene
you just don't understand God nor the scriptures ,i wander if you understand what you write in some quotes.
meaning of grace;
Divine grace, unearned favors received from God.you think because we have free will we earn the grace ?you really don't understand truth,freewill means that you choose the will of God ,this does not mean he gift it to you ,it does not mean you earn it ,it just means that you would like to obtain it or receive it from him and that you are willing to sacrifice your own will to obtain it ,
so look it this way ;Go to God and tell him here i am to do your will my God;
where there is a will there is a way?
Where there is the WILL of God working IN us to CAUSE us to overcome, there exists THE way.
The WAY is through the example of Christ.
Man of his OWN self can do NOTHING, he must have God's Spirit present IN him. Our flesh profits us nothing, it is the Spirit that CAUSES us to walk in the Life of God.
The LAW was given to PROVE that man cannot keep the law through a work done by his own spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God–and righteousness and sanctification and redemption– 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
God CAUSES man to come into the knowledge of the truth. God causes man to follow His ways.
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Jodi
youself saying it ;
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 787
Joined: Feb. 2009 Posted: Feb. 17 2010,08:15——————————————————————————–
where there is a will there is a way?Where there is the WILL of God working IN us to CAUSE us to overcome, there exists THE way.
The WAY is through the example of Christ
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT I SAID AND SAYING HERE?
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 16 2010,14:44) Adam……….You have said it right , they truly think they are the masters of their own destinies . They have no idea of the (CAPTIVITY) of their own WILLS have Hold on them, and they seek to serve it rather then GOD. They have become an (I) god unto themselves, and their Pride refuses to let them humble themselves, so it maintains it's so-called “FREE WILL” salvation. Even though no where in scripture is even Mention that Man Has a “FREE” WILL in HIM. Just the blind leading the blind brother. But there are some (very few) who do understand. These have the SPIRIT (intellect) of TRUTH in them, given by GOD the FATHER. IMO Peace and love to you and yours Adam……………..gene
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,15:52) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,14:15) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,04:27)
Hi Gene,10,000-2,700= $7,200
How much of the ($7,200) savings did you pass on to the Church?Ed J
ED J …..A better question would be why did you bring up this subject. What does that have to do with anything. That has nothing to do with the point i was making, Rather i gave it all or Kept it all, it was all in my power to do as i so Chose.Whats your Point?
Hi Gene,'it was all in my power to do as i so Chose'.
Thank you; My point was…
You just helped me PROVE “Free Will”!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,19:14) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 16 2010,14:44) Adam……….You have said it right , they truly think they are the masters of their own destinies . They have no idea of the (CAPTIVITY) of their own WILLS have Hold on them, and they seek to serve it rather then GOD. They have become an (I) god unto themselves, and their Pride refuses to let them humble themselves, so it maintains it's so-called “FREE WILL” salvation. Even though no where in scripture is even Mention that Man Has a “FREE” WILL in HIM. Just the blind leading the blind brother. But there are some (very few) who do understand. These have the SPIRIT (intellect) of TRUTH in them, given by GOD the FATHER. IMO Peace and love to you and yours Adam……………..gene
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,15:52) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,14:15) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,04:27)
Hi Gene,10,000-2,700= $7,200
How much of the ($7,200) savings did you pass on to the Church?Ed J
ED J …..A better question would be why did you bring up this subject. What does that have to do with anything. That has nothing to do with the point i was making, Rather i gave it all or Kept it all, it was all in my power to do as i so Chose.Whats your Point?
Hi Gene,'it was all in my power to do as i so Chose'.
Thank you; My point was…
You just helped me PROVE “Free Will”!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDGood point! Watch how well they exercise their “Free will” when it comes to money! LOL!
Blessings WJ
I think that trying to convince people that there is no free will is in itself an oxymoron.
Trying to convince someone of anything requires the ability to reason and the ability to choose what to believe.
So why waste your time convincing people that there is no free will. It makes me wonder if deep down you believe in free will, otherwise why even have this conversation?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 17 2010,11:17) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,19:14) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 16 2010,14:44) Adam……….You have said it right , they truly think they are the masters of their own destinies . They have no idea of the (CAPTIVITY) of their own WILLS have Hold on them, and they seek to serve it rather then GOD. They have become an (I) god unto themselves, and their Pride refuses to let them humble themselves, so it maintains it's so-called “FREE WILL” salvation. Even though no where in scripture is even Mention that Man Has a “FREE” WILL in HIM. Just the blind leading the blind brother. But there are some (very few) who do understand. These have the SPIRIT (intellect) of TRUTH in them, given by GOD the FATHER. IMO Peace and love to you and yours Adam……………..gene
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,15:52) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,14:15) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,04:27)
Hi Gene,10,000-2,700= $7,200
How much of the ($7,200) savings did you pass on to the Church?Ed J
ED J …..A better question would be why did you bring up this subject. What does that have to do with anything. That has nothing to do with the point i was making, Rather i gave it all or Kept it all, it was all in my power to do as i so Chose.Whats your Point?
Hi Gene,'it was all in my power to do as i so Chose'.
Thank you; My point was…
You just helped me PROVE “Free Will”!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDGood point! Watch how well they exercise their “Free will” when it comes to money! LOL!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,There are many Biblical Doctrines we can agree on!
I'm glad you are willing to explore them, sometimes our perceived differences aren't so different after all!
TT has chosen to disengage from topical Biblical discussions with me, I'm glad you do NOT follow in his footsteps!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 17 2010,08:24) Jodi youself saying it ;
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 787
Joined: Feb. 2009 Posted: Feb. 17 2010,08:15——————————————————————————–
where there is a will there is a way?Where there is the WILL of God working IN us to CAUSE us to overcome, there exists THE way.
The WAY is through the example of Christ
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT I SAID AND SAYING HERE?
Hi terraricca,My understanding is that God calls individuals at His choosing and then HE CAUSES through HIS influences those individuals to choose Him. Right now God is only calling leaders who will be Kings and Priests under Christ. They will then be part of the influences God uses when He calls the rest of mankind to follow Him.
I am under the impression that is not how you see it.
Jodi
it is Gods right to call his own people ,wen you out of your own freewill go to God to do his will ,you are now under his authority and you do not have any longer a will of your own.YHWH IS the Savior of ALL men. His tools for saving people are not a bunch of preachers who cannot agree and a bunch of bibles that are filled with mistranslations. God's plan and Power of influencing mankind to have faith in Him is far greater then that.
The law proved that NO MAN through his own will can stand righteous before God. Christ came to wipe sins clean for it was God's plan that by one man sin and death came by another grace and eternal life would come, and where sin abounded GRACE would abound MUCH MORE.
Now Christ has paid the penalties for our sins, and ALL shall be made alive because of it. But that does not CAUSE people to repent, or have the ability to walk perfectly in God's statutes. Christ shows how it is possible to walk perfectly. He shows that you must be GIVEN by God a measure of the Spirit in order for it to be done.
What I see you and so many other people teaching is a binding of man to a new law. You fully teach a NEW KIND of SLAVERY.
Man CANNOT follow the law by his own will. The law proved man's weakness, instead of building righteousness it just proved man's inabilities.
NOW Christianity has established a NEW LAW, now people must through their own will accept Jesus Christ as their savior or else. They teach that God gave this “free gift”, all THEY have to do is of their OWN minds come to accept it.
You and others terraricca teach a false and dark gospel.
Just as people could not serve the law by their own ways through their own selves, people cannot come to serve Jesus through their own ways, by their so called “free wills”.
Jesus was ABLE to deny his will, that was in chains do to his carnal nature, by a MEASURE of God's Spirit working in him. Jesus was able to serve the Father through what he received from the Father. Jesus died for our sins but that does not change what we STILL NEED from the Father!!
All sins for all people have been forgiven through Christ, but just as the people were not able to serve the law, they will not be able to serve Christ unless they are GIVEN God's Spirit to do so.
The question is terraricca, do you believe that YHWH's Spirit when given in a certain measure is more powerful of an influence then the influences of man?
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Ezekiel 37:14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.' “
Just as Our Heavenly Father CAUSED Jesus to walk in God's statues, He will CAUSE in due time, EVERY man to walk in His
statutes.Jodi………They just don't get it It is no wonder so many have failed they are a God unto themselves, they have not put their Wills to death through FAITH in GOD. Limiting GOD to ONLY Act in the salvation process by (THEIR) Permission, IS IN A SENSE SAYING THEY ARE A GOD UNTO THEMSELVES. But the ignorance in them prevent them from seeing this. If we say GOD HIMSELF is the (ONLY) true SAVIOR and them say, but only if we give Him permission to, is postering ourselves above HIM. Some are like men in a Prison and can only see what is inside the prison, blind to the outside, other who GOD has brought outside the Prison can see the whole Picture including the Prison.
Rom 9:13…> As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I Hated. 14…> what shall we say then? is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid
Rom 9:15….> For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom (I) will have compassion.
Rom 9:16……> So then it is (NOT) of Him that (WILLS), nor of him that (RUNS) but of GOD (THAT SHOWS MERCY.
So much for (SELF SO CALLED) “FREE WILL Salvation. But wait there is more.
Rom 9:17…..> For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have (I) raised thee up, that (I) might show MY Power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout the earth, 18..> Therefore Has HE mercy on whom HE WILL have Mercy, AND WHOM HE (WILLS) HE (HARDENS). ..19..> YOU will say then unto me, Why does he yet find fault? For who has resisted (HIS WILL).
Like the so called “FREE WILL” Willed people will say , Because you think GOD needs there permission from their Own falsely called FREE WILLS. IN order to save them,
Here is there answer……> Rom 9:20….> Nay but , O man, who are you that replies against GOD? Shall the thing (FORMED) say to him who (FORMED IT) why hast thou (MADE) me thus?
21…> Has not the potter power over the clay, of the (SAME) LUMP to (MAKE) one vessel unto Honor (Jesus and those He (God) choses to), and another (from the same lump) unto dishonor?All who believe in the false teaching of a “FREE WILL” salvation need to finish reading the rest of what is written their, maybe it will clear the cob weds out of their minds.
Peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2010,12:44) I think that trying to convince people that there is no free will is in itself an oxymoron. Trying to convince someone of anything requires the ability to reason and the ability to choose what to believe.
So why waste your time convincing people that there is no free will. It makes me wonder if deep down you believe in free will, otherwise why even have this conversation?
T8………The only oxymoron is that a WILL is FREE, A WILL can NOT be FREE, or It simply would not be a WILL> the very word WILL shows it is not FREE. There exist no such thing as a “FREE WILL”.
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