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The Bible clearly states
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
So, what does that mean, “in Adam all die?”
What does Job mean byJob 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
When Adam sinned it rendered him unclean, anything that came out of him, his prosperity, was unclean before they even commited a sin of them self. If we were to die for our sins, why then do little children and infants die; they could not have commited a sin now, could they? should they not be allowed to live at least as long until they do?
Anything we do is, because we choose to do it, not because some one or some thing forces us.
We are easily influenced, mainly to do evil, but not forced.Georg
Exactly brother Georg, if our wills are influenced by somebody or something it is not so free as many think here. It is another myth that there is free will for human on this earth. Brother Gene is always right in quoting the same. Peolple are not realising it.
Ephesians 2:1-2(NIV) reads:
Quote As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
and
1 Corinthians 2:12(NIV) reads:
Quote We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
We all die in Adam because we are all subject to the spirit of the world. It is only through obey all Jesus' teaching that we throw off the chains that bind and truly become free.
goll
you can't not even read ,your mind is blocked with your own views.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.can you see what is written there ,YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY YOUR OWN STUPIDITY ,NOT BY GOD.
THERE IS ONLY YOU ,YOUR WANTS AND NEEDS WHO ARE INFLUENCE US ALL,BUT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO PUT THEM ASIDE AND REFUCING TO BE INFLUENCED BY THEM.
IT IS UP TO US ;DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES NOT GENE'
WHY YOU THINK THE LAW OF GOD PUNISHES ,IF IT WAS NOT THERE RESPONSABILITY IF YOU ARE RESPONSABLE YOU HAVE FREE WILL ,IF YOU ARE NOT RESPONSABLE THEN YOU ARE NOT GILTY ,AND THEN YOU ARE NOT FREE AND HAVE NO WILL AT ALL.AND YOU ARE A ROBOT.
IF YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THIS I AM VERY SAD ABOUT IT ,BUT I CAN NOT EXPLAIN IT ANY BETTER THAN THIS.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2010,21:46) can you see what is written there ,YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY YOUR OWN STUPIDITY ,NOT BY GOD.
How about you brother terraricca, I hope you are at least influenced by God who is the source of all good and evil. I tell you christianity made everything a mess by its misinterpretation of Jewish scriptures. Their minds are so corrupted therefore they don't see truth. Your own words catching you. One side you say God is the one who had drwan you towards Him then where is the question this so called free will brother?Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 06 2010,17:12) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2010,21:46) can you see what is written there ,YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY YOUR OWN STUPIDITY ,NOT BY GOD.
How about you brother terraricca, I hope you are at least influenced by God who is the source of all good and evil. I tell you christianity made everything a mess by its misinterpretation of Jewish scriptures. Their minds are so corrupted therefore they don't see truth. Your own words catching you. One side you say God is the one who had drwan you towards Him then where is the question this so called free will brother?
Could you define “draw” for me?The last I knew is meant “to pull”.
God pulls people to him through their desire to do his will.
It is like fishing. My bait draws the fish to it through their own desires.
goll
first you do not read the scriptures again;as 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Goll,i am no different than you i suffer the same influence and have to fight to over come them.
this is your comment to me ;
How about you brother terraricca, I hope you are at least influenced by God who is the source of all good and evil. I tell you christianity made everything a mess by its misinterpretation of Jewish scriptures. Their minds are so corrupted therefore they don't see truth. Your own words catching you. One side you say God is the one who had drawn you towards Him then where is the question this so called free will brother?i never say that God draws you, i always said that we are drawn to God offer and plan through Christ,
and that we make are decision to obey it, as voluntary and if it is voluntary it is also by are free will.and what could be there to influence us we put it aside and over come it because of our will to chose what we want to fallow,
if we let the negative influence over come our will to do good ,then we have refused to obey God but it is also are free will who did it,always two ways yes-no,wrong-right -good -bad-Satan-God,ect;Goll
I let God talk trough me with the understanding he as given me ,but what i do not understand i try not to invent or tell lies ,God give knowledge to the righteous as required,not as he want it.CO
Isa 54:15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.i do not see what you say ,that God created Satan;
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things
this just shows God saying he made light and so made darkness;this is obvious enough.
now he says he make peace and by doing so he as create evil,this is also obvious enough .your interpretation is wrong i have never see this before this as nothing the do with Satan.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Isa 46:12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:this verses as nothing to do with the interpretation you are given it,
of cause God does what he wants but for a reason and it is explain in the fallowing verse,why do you only read part of a verse to twisted to your own mind.Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;in this verses you quote is the truth spell out clearly ,why so you cut it up for the purpose of your own mind.??god purpose was to save men from the beginning and use his son to fulfil it.SO ?
counsel means advise it also obvious that God give advice .God will ,will always be done, with us accepting is grace or not, the effect will be only to us because we did not accepted so we die,but if we accepted we live ,this is were there is a difference.
but we are free to chose.that s a fact.and it is our will to do it ,all is of God ,what that statement as to do with free will ,God as created all things do not know that much ? he also as created as free to chose between good and evil. so if we have a choice we have free will.
if not then we are robots and fallow orders as per the buttons are pushed.as for your comment “save yourselves” just because we have free will ,we are not saved this is ridiculous to think that .
Christ said ;there are two doors a big one and a small one did he not say that we can pick which door we want to go through,if you can not chose why making two doors??
think about it free will is only direct related to our responsibility of choice between serving God or not.
I CAN NOT SAY IT ANY BETTER SO THAT 'S IT ,IT IS UP TO YOU TO UNDERSTAND IT.YOU ARE FREE IN YOUR WILL (DESISION)
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 06 2010,20:48) Exactly brother Georg, if our wills are influenced by somebody or something it is not so free as many think here. It is another myth that there is free will for human on this earth. Brother Gene is always right in quoting the same. Peolple are not realising it.
golla…Some people are “influenced” to do some stupid things, sometimes it is for no other reason as to get attention. But, is it something you could not resist, especially when you realise, it's dangerous?
If some one holds a gun to your head, well, you have little choice; or, if some one offers you a large sum of money, you may take a chance, but it is still your decision, meaning, you make the choice, to do, or not to do.
When you see “extreme sports”, or anything else that puts your life in danger, do you think some one is forcing them?
If we had no free will to choose between good and evil, would we not have an excuse to say to God, well, who can resist you, you made me do it; I don't think so.Georg
Gorge……None of what you use as an example deals with a “FREE” WILL, but a will influenced by wanting to live. Nothing “FREE” About it. EVEN GOD'S WILL ITSELF IS (NOT) A FREE WILL. ” FOR GOD DOES (ALL) THINGS AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS WILL”, Get it, even God himself exercises a (COUNSELED) Will not a “FREE WILL”. The only way a WILL could Possibly be “FREE” is if there were (NO) INFLUENCES) influencing it, no Such thing exists, if it did it would (NOT) be a WILL, but a random Choice or chance. Everything that exists in Life is the result of CAUSE and EFFECT, and the Prime Mover is GOD HIMSELF, Human PRIDE HATES that Thought because it destory's their own Self SALVATION WORKS they think they HAVE, And as a result do not put their WILL to DEATH, but fool themselves into thinking their righteousness is from themselves by the so-call “FREE WILL” Choices . Man is (NOT) the author and finisher of salvation GOD (ONLY) IS. OUR WILLS have nothing to do with IT , in fact Jesus said “THY KINGDOM COME THY (WILL) BE DONE ” Notice he did not say anything about HIS Will being done. Jesus Knew only ONE WILL counts and that Is GOD the FATHERS WILL> In fact he put (HIS WILL) to death. So much fro “FREE WILL” Salvation .
Amen and amen to that post brother Gene. I really appreciate that post of your on this alleged free will.
Hope others will realise this truth.Love and peace to you
AdamAdam……….Let the Spirit have Its perfect work brother, So-called “FREE WILL” is one of the greatest stumbling blocks Satan uses to cause People to put their trust in themselves, it was this very thing that caused Adam and EVE to fall. They wanted to exercise their (OWN) so-called “FREE WILL” Choices, under the influences of an adversarial Spirit and there by turned from GOD to themselves. They became a god unto themselves by exercising their (OWN) WILLS, far from FREE, but Captivated WILLS> IMO
peace and love to you and yours ADAM…………………..gene
This is the paradox of our Bible:
God determines who is going to heaven … Acts 13:48, 2 Timothy 1:9, Ephesians 1:4-5 2, Thessalonians 2:13
and who is going to hell… 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, Jude 4
and there's nothing you can do about it… Romans 9:11-22
You cannot have free will if you have to fear the consequences and eternal life is clearly not free or unconditional when you have to do works to earn it. It is impossible for a loving, just and compassionate God to put all the things in place that caused the downfall of humanity, to forgo with a creation he knew was doomed and then to punish them for something he had foreknowledge of. If God has a Plan and can intervene, we cannot have free will, but an omniscient God who knows the future is powerless to change it. An omniscient and omnipresent God with a master plan renders prayer useless. If we have free will, God cannot pre-determine our fate.
More….
Do we REALLY have free will?
Some of the best known Christians in history have taught there is no free will, including St. Augustine , Martin Luther, and John Calvin. The Christian Bible states in many places that God creates our future and decides our fates. It constantly denies that we have free will. If God knows exactly what will happen, (Being omnipotent and omniscient of course) the status of choices as free, is questionable.
“Praise be to [God], who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.” Ephesians 1:4-6 NIV
“But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” Ephesians 2:4-10 NIV
“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” Romans 8:29-30 NIV
“Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad – in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls – she was told “The older will serve the younger”. Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated”. What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion” Romans 9:10-15 NIV
“It does not therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed on all the earth.” [Exodus 9:16] Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” ” Romans 9:16-19
“[God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, ” 2 Timothy 1:9 NASB
“All people living on the Earth will worship [The Devil], except those whose names were written before the creation of the world in the book of the living which belongs to [Jesus].” Revelations 13:8 NIV Pretty much the whole thing.
Myth of Free Will :
Most people say that they believe in “free will.” Do you have any idea what that means? I believe that you will find a great deal of superstition on this subject. The will is saluted as the grand power of the human soul which is completely free to direct our lives. But from what is it free? And what is its power?
THE MYTH OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL FREEDOM
No one denies that man has a will—that is, a faculty of choosing what he wishes to say, do, and think. But have you ever reflected on the pitiful weakness of your will? Though you have the ability to make a decision, you do not have the power to carry out your purpose. Will may devise a course of action, but will has no power to execute its intention.
Joseph’s brothers hated him. They sold him to be a slave. But God used their actions to make him a ruler over themselves. They chose their course of action to harm Joseph. But God in his power directed events for Joseph’s good. He said, “You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good” (Gen. 50:20).
And how many of your decisions are miserably thwarted? You may choose to be a millionaire, but God’s providence is likely to prevent it. You may decide to be a scholar, but bad health, an unstable home, or lack of finances may frustrate your will. You choose to go on a vacation, but an automobile accident may send you to the hospital instead.
By saying that your will is free, we certainly do not mean that it determines the course of your life. You did not choose the sickness, sorrow, war, and poverty that have spoiled your happiness. You did not choose to have enemies. If man’s will is so potent, why not choose to live on and on? But you must die. The major factors which shape your life cannot thank your will. You did not select your social status, color, intelligence, etc.
Any sober reflection on your experience will produce the conclusion, “A man’s mind plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps” (Prov. 16:9). Rather than extolling the human will, we ought to humbly praise the Lord whose purposes shape our lives. As Jeremiah confessed, “I know, 0 Lord, that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
Yes, you may choose what you want, and you may plan what you will do. But your will is not free to accomplish anything contrary to the purposes of God. Neither have you any power to reach your goals but that which God allows you. The next time you are so enamored with your own will, remember Jesus’ parable about the rich man. The wealthy man said, “I will do this; I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods… But God said to him, Fool! This night your soul is required of you” (Luke 12:18-21). He was free to plan but not free to accomplish; so it is with you.
THE MYTH OF ETHICAL FREEDOM
But freedom of the will is cited as an important factor in making moral decisions. Man’s will is said to be free to choose between good and evil. But again we must ask, from what is it free? And what is man’s will free to choose?
The will of man is his power to choose between alternatives. Your will does decide your actions from a number of options. You have the faculty to direct your own thoughts, words, and deeds. Your decisions are not formed by an outside force but from within yourself. No man is compelled to act contrary to his will, nor forced to say what he does not wish. Your will guides your actions.
Yet this does not mean that the power to decide is free from all influence. You make choices based on your understanding, your feelings, your likes and dislikes, and your appetites. In other words, your will is not free from yourself! Your choices are determined by your own basic character. The will is not independent of your nature but the slave of it. Your choices do not shape your character, but your character guides your choices. The will is quite partial to what you know, feel, love, and desire. You always choose on the basis of your disposition, according to the condition of your heart.
It is just for this reason that your will is not free to do good. Your will is the servant of your heart, and your heart is evil. “The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:5). “No one does good, not even one” (Rom. 3:12). No power forces man to sin contrary to his will, but the descendants of Adam are so evil that they always choose the evil.
Your decisions are molded by your understanding, and the Bible says of all men, “Their senseless minds are darkened” (Rom. 1:21). Man can only be righteous when he desires to have fellowship with God, but, “No one seeks for God” (Rom. 3:11). Your appetites crave sin, and thus you cannot choose Good. To choose good is contrary human nature. If you chose to obey God, it would be the result of external compulsion. But you are free to choose, and hence your choice is enslaved to your own evil nature.
If fresh meat and tossed salad were placed before a hungry lion, he would choose the flesh. This is because his nature dictates the selection. It is just so with man. The will of man is free from outside force but not from the bias of human nature. That bias is against God. Man’s powers of decision are free to choose whatever the human heart dictates; therefore there is no possibility of a man choosing to please God without a prior work of divine grace.
What most people mean by free will is the idea that man is by nature neutral and therefore able to choose either good or evil. This simply is not true. The human will and the whole of human nature is bent to only evil continually. Jeremiah asked, “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil” (Jer. 13:23). It is impossible. It is contrary to nature. Thus do men desperately need the supernatural transformation of their natures, else their wills are enslaved to choosing evil.
In spite of the great praise that is given to “free will,” we have seen that man’s will is not free to choose a course contrary to God’s purposes nor free to act contrary to his own moral nature. Your will does not determine the events of your life nor the circumstances of it. Ethical choices are not formed by a neutral mind but always dictated by your personality.
THE MYTH OF SPIRITUAL FREEDOM
Nevertheless many assert that the human will makes the ultimate choice of spiritual life or spiritual death. Here the will is altogether free to choose eternal life offered in Jesus Christ or to reject it. It is said that God will give a new heart to all who choose by the power of their own free will to receive Jesus Christ.
There can be no question that receiving Jesus Christ is an act of the human will. It is often called “faith.” But how do men come to willingly receive the Lord? It is usually answered, “Out of the power of their own free will.” But how can that be? Jesus is a prophet. To receive him means to believe all that he says. In John 8:41-45 Jesus made it clear that you were born of Satan. This evil father hates the truth and imparted the same bias into your heart by nature. Hence said Jesus, “Because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me.” How does the human will jump out of man to choose to believe what the human mind hates and denies?
To receive Jesus further means to embrace him as a priest—that is, to employ,and depend on him to sue out peace with God by sacrific and intercession. Paul tells us that the mind with which we were born is hostile to God (Rom. 8:7). How can the will escape the influence of human nature which was born with a violent enmity to God? It would be insane for the will to choose peace when every bone and drop of blood cries out for rebellion.
Then too, receiving Jesus means to welcome him as a king. It means choos
ing to obey his every command, to confess his right of rule, and to worship before his throne. But the human mind, emotions, and desires all cry out, “We will not have this man to reign over us” (Luke 19:14). If my whole being hates his truth, hates his rule, and hates peace with God, how can my will be responsible for receiving Jesus? How can such a sinner have faith?It is not man’s will but God’s grace that must be thanked for giving a sinner a new heart. Unless God changes the heart, creates a new spirit of peace, truthfulness, and submission, man will not choose to receive Jesus Christ and eternal life in Him. A new heart must be given before a man will believe, or else the human will is hopelessly enslaved to evil human nature—even in the matter of conversion. Jesus said, “Marvel not that I said to you, you must be born again” (John 3:7). Unless you are, you will never see his kingdom.
Read John 1:12 & 13. It says that those who believe on Jesus have been “born, not of the will of man, but of God.” As your will is not responsible for your coming into this world, it is not responsible for the new birth. It is your Creator who must be thanked for your life, and if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation (II Cor. 5:17). Who ever chose to be created? When Lazarus rose from the dead, he chose to answer the call of Christ, but he did not choose to come to life. So Paul said in Ephesians 2:4 & 5, “When we were dead in sins God has quickened us with Christ (by grace you are saved).” Faith is the first act of a will made new by the Holy Spirit. Receiving Christ is an act of man just as breathing is, but God must first give life.
No wonder Martin Luther wrote a book entitled The Bondage of The Will which he considered one of his most important treatises. The will is in the chains of an evil human nature. You who extol the free will as a great force are clinging to a root of pride. Man, as fallen in sin, is utterly helpless and hopeless. The will of man offers no hope. It was the will choosing the forbidden fruit that brought us into misery. The powerful grace of God alone offers deliverance. Cast yourself upon God’s mercy for salvation. Ask for the Spirit of Grace that he may create a new spirit within you.
Source: http://www.eternallifeministries.org/wc_myth.htmPlease share your views
AdamQuestion:
In 2 Thessalonians 2:11 it says God will send sinners a “strong delusion.” Why would God have to send a “delusion” if men have no freewill? It appears to indicate that men must have a choice otherwise God would not have to fool them?Answer:
First, it is important to define what is meant by the term “free will.” When I state that men do not have “free will,” it does not mean men have no choices. What I am reacting against (and I believe the Bible would confirm my conviction) is the idea of libertarian autonomy. In other words, the classic, philosophical idea that a person's will and reason is separated from any influence by his or her sin nature. The Bible never separates man into compartments, where one compartment would have no influence on any of the others. The scriptures clearly teach that the will and mind of a sinner is woven with his sin nature so that the choices made by the sinner are in one accord with his sin nature.
Moreover, the idea of Total Depravity does not indicate a totality of degree, as if a sinner is as depraved as he or she could be, but the description speaks more to a sinner's orientation. There is a wide spectrum of sinners. For example, a sinner could be a right wing moralist, while another sinner could be involved with producing pornography and exploiting young girls; yet, both sinners are oriented away from God. It is the Lord who restrains the severity of sinners' depravity displaying itself in action, and that restraint is a gracious act of God, because it keeps the sinner from filling up a rather large cup of wrath.
This does not mean that a sinner does not make genuine choices. Sinners make free choices, but those choices will be according to their nature. The Bible defines being fallen into sin as being a God hater, so sinners will make choices that never take into account the sovereignty and lordship of God because they by nature hate God. Those choices are made freely, from their heart, but those choices will be oriented toward ungodliness, or perhaps self-righteousness if the person is a moralist.
Coming to 2 Thessalonians 2:11, the expression “strong delusion” speaks more to God giving sinners up to their utter depravity (similar to Romans 1), so that they will be certain to be condemned, as 2:12 affirms. Basically, God, by giving them strong delusion, is fixing them in their condemnation by removing His grace and leaving them to their sin. In like fashion, God sent a wicked spirit to torment Saul in 1 Samuel. The torment of the wicked spirit only served to stir up Saul's wicked heart so that his internal sin would be manifested outwardly (what we see when he attacked David and behaved irrationally), and thus he is solidified as certainly bearing God's judgment upon him. I believe this is what Paul has in mind when he states that these men will be sent a “strong delusion.”
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30) Myth of Free Will : Please share your views
Adam
Hi Adam,The myth of no free will; You present a false truth.
Just because there is influence on everybody does NOT negate “FREE WILL”!goll
you are blind, this is because there is something in you heart or mind that is not in place ,
all the scriptures you provide supports free decision to accept Gods will.predestination is related to what God want ,he want that men be saved since the beginning that's, what Paul talk about ,your application of those verses are twisted,
James;say if you believe that God exist so is Satan….;show me your faith without D
but all this is after you chose to serve God, what i say of free will is before all ,before you know the true God,after you made your decision you are now a repent soul ,and by this on your way to salvation through the blood of Christ.
and St Augustin ,also believed in free will ,and many others ,i am well aware of the stupidity of
determinism,
any one with scriptures knowledge will accepted,even your children ,did you not teach them to be obedient to you ,and what happen wen they disobey you give them gifts ,chocolate,candy,for they rebel against you
?or you reprimand them,so they ave to chose to obey you or not ,knowing the implication of their decision,right???
or is it trough your great love for them that ,that what ever they do is ok. and forgiven ,and no need to re-tribute them for what they do wrong after all you love them to whatever they plan to do, to you or anyone else.IS THIS CASE WITH YOU, I WOULD NOT WANT YOU AS A NABORGH OR FRIEND.
“Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” ” Romans 9:16-19
OGAIN YOU DO NOT READ THE SCRIPTURES FROM THE BEGINNING SO THAT YOU MAY UNDERSTAND IT YOU ONLY READ PARTS OF IT AND THEN TWIST THE IT TO YOUR CONCLUTION.
PAUL TALK ABOUT GOD SENDING HIS SON TO SAVE US ,AND NOT BLAME US OR RESISTS OUR WILL….
AND SO PAUL SAY GOD LONG AGO DECIDED TO DO JUST THAT ,IT IS ALSO FORTOLD THAT GOD WILL FORGIVE OUR SINS IN THE O.T.THIS SCRIPTURE AS NOTHING THE DO WITH OUR WILL TO BE SAVED.
IF YOU KEEP SEEKING YOUR OWN PURPOSE IN THE SCRIPTURES AND TEACH THEM YOU WILL RECEIVE THE SALARY OF THE WICKET .
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