Free Will?

[terraricca]

hi

you have nothing if you do not repent willfully and change you live ways to the ones who are approved by God,and it as to be deep from the hearth or you may have still nothing.

you given out the idea that it is preach by Satan “,God does everything for you”.

[chosenone]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2010,17:50)

hi you have nothing if you do not repent willfully and change you live ways to the ones who are approved by God,and it as to be deep from the hearth or you may have still nothing. you given out the idea that it is preach by Satan “,God does everything for you”.

terraricca.
What are you repenting of? Jesus sacrifice not enough?
Scripture says …18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation. (2Cor.5:18-19).
Notice …”not reckoning their offenses to them”. Was Jesus sacrifice not sufficient for you? Must He go through all this pain and suffering again, maybe just for you? Shame on you, dismissing this glorious deed as if you can do better yourself by repenting…Shame, shame , shame.

Blessings, Jerry.

[terraricca]

hi

Rev 11:18 The nations were angry;
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

GOD AS ONLY PROVIDE US WITH THE WAY TO BE SAVED HE DOES NOT DO IT FOR US,

CHRIST AS LEAD US AND SHOW US THE WAY TO DO IT,THE APOSTLES AS WELL SHOWED THE WAY EVEN TO THE GENTILES ,BUT ONLESS WE FOLLOW WHAT THEY SAYING YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED.

READ YOUR BIBLE WITHOUT INFLUENCE FROM OTHERS ,WHAT EVER YOU BELIEVE FROM OTHERS WILL NOT SAVE YOU, ONLESS IT IS GOD S WAY.YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT IS FROM GOD AND NOT FROM MEN.

[GeneBalthrop]

terraricca………..Your salvation is of yourself so-called “FREE WILL” a religion that SATAN want you to believe, we can do it ourselves as he suggested to Eve in the garden of Eden. You could no more change yourself then a Leopard can change its spots or a Ethiopian His Skin as scripture says. PRIDE IS SATAN BIGGEST TOOL. The righteousness from the SELF, is one of the biggest lies ever prevaricated on man kind. Jesus told the Pharisees, you make the OUTSIDE of the Cup clean ,  but the inside is unclean, also you white washed spectaculars indeed you appear clean on the outside but are full of dead mens bone on the inside. First makes the cup clean on the (INSIDE) OR SPIRIT and (THEN) the outside can be clean also. The SPIRIT of GOD CLEANS THE INSIDE and the FRUITS of THEE SPIRIT ARE PRODUCES BOTH INSIDE AND OUTSIDE.  SELF SALVATION BROUGHT ABOUT BY SO-CALLED SELF REPENTANCE IS A LIE OF SATAN.  FOR WE ARE SORROWED UNTO REPENTANCE, AS THEY AT THE DAY OF PENTECOST WERE. THE HOLY SPIRIT PRICKED THEM IN THERE HEARTS AND THAT CAUSED THEM TO SAY MEN AND BRETHREN WHAT SHALL WE DO SEEING WE HAVE PUT TO DEATH THE SON OF GOD. THAT DAY BEFORE AND THE HOUR BEFORE THAT THEY WERE STILL SAYING CRUCIFY HIMS. Stealing glory of GOD'S Work and applying it to man is nothing but PRIDE TALK>  God said he looked for (ONE) righteous man and said He found non not even (ONE) so he took it upon his own arm to (BRING SALVATION) , But PRIDE hates that thought do you. NO MAN TRULY REPENTS ON HIS OWN SO-CALLED “FREE WILL” WORKS OF HE FLESH. “GODLY SORROW WOKS REPENTANCE NOT TO NE REPENTED OF”, just that simple, You either accept that or reject it, the decision is yours. True salvation is a CREATION and MAN is NO CREATOR, “For you are CREATED unto Good Works” IMO

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2010,20:40)

TERRARICCA SAID GOD AS ONLY PROVIDE US WITH THE WAY TO BE SAVED HE DOES NOT DO IT FOR US,

Terrraricca………..A TOTAL LIE and DECEPTION , IF GOD DOES NOT SAVE US WE WILL NEVER BE SAVED. You remind me of those who (PROFESS GOD) but (DENY) THE (POWER) THERE OF. Your God seem to be weak and unable to save you so you must do it yourself by your so-called “FREE WILL” Choices. That is fine if you think you save yourself, but to preach and teach other that they saves themselves by there own (SELF) works is against scripture and a corruption of GOD Words and Jesus WORDS. GOD seems to have no part in your self salvation by self works and self repentance. IMO

[terraricca]

gene

first you twist my words what is typical for you,and you do not have the truth of God in your earth ,i showed you enough scriptures but you do not look at them ,because like false teachers they only look at one or two verses twist them and then give there version and interpretation and will so that they mislay the ones who hears it.

unless you obey God and Christ and do not just lessen but perform the requirement of deeds and changes in your hearth you will not be saved,and willfully you are free to chose not to do it ,
THIS IS UP TO EVERYONE OF US,
YOU GENE INCLUDED

[terraricca]

GENE
GOD AS ONLY PROVIDE US WITH THE WAY TO BE SAVED HE DOES NOT DO IT FOR US

show me were it said that God does more than providing all we need to obtain everlasting live,??

show the scriptures and not few twisted words

[terraricca]

gene

i do not deny the power of God i know he can save me, i know he can help me wen i show him my love for him,i know that he has help me in the past,i know he created all things,

i know he as put before me live and dead but i chose live so i do the will of god and apply myself every day to do so.

i know unless i keep doing so ,i may loose my reward,as Paul said,

free will is only in your choice ,but you do not know anything about free will you are a slave to the world.

[GeneBalthrop]

Terraricca………. God does not (HELP) you SAVE yourself, He either (SAVES YOU) OR NOT,He is either your SAVIOR or NOT. And BY the way Satan is the accuser of the Brethern as you seem to be doing here. You have no idea of mine or anyones relationship with GOD the FATHER or Jesus Christ. Me and Chosenone have Both posted clear and Untwisted words of GOD, and you continue to reject those scriptures time and time again. And say we are twisting them even though they are direct quotations. There was (NO) twisting of any of the SCRIPTURES (QUOTED) by US, it's your lack of accepting those scriptures show you mind and attitude toward GOD'S Words and Jesus' also.  IMO

[terraricca]

Gene and CO

first you do not know God;by saying that God as created Satan and wickedness his falls interpretation of Gods love and Holiness.

we always have received conditional free will since Adam,; Ge 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Ge 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
Ge 1:30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
Ge 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Ge 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
Ge 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are FREE to eat from any tree in the garden;

you also are aware of the scripture who said ,”the soul who sin is the one who dies”

God never change Pharaoh ,he used him the way he was arrogant self center you should read the scriptures more carefully,and see the thoughts of pharaoh,

your god looks like Satan a criminal,a liar,devious,deceiver,wicket. there is no way that my God can be or do some thing like that,

AND HE DID NOT CREATE SATAN,WEN THE ANGEL WAS CREATED HE WAS NOT SATAN HE BECAME SATAN,GET YOUR FACTS TOGUETHER. YOU SPRAIDING LIES. GOD IS LOVE,AND RIGHTEOUSNESS.

GOD SAVE MAN THROUGH THEIR FAITH IN HIM AND THE ONE HE HAS SEND JESUS CHRIST,
THE ONES WHO HAVE FAITH ARE SAVED THE ONES WHO DO NOT ARE NOT SAVED,UP TO US.

AND GOD DOES NOT PICK AND CHOSE,WITHOUT REASON, HE SAID THAT THE RIGHTEOUS WILL BE THE ONES TO OBTAIN LIVE,BY THEIR FAITH IN HIM.

SO THIS LEAVES THE WICKET TO BE DESTROYED.THE REBELLS AGAINST GOD DESIRE TO SAVE THEM.
JUST LIKE SATAN.

YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS NOT WITH THE GOD OF LOVE BUT WITH SATAN THE GOD OF THIS WORLD,
HE IS THE ONE WHO SUPPORTS YOUR KIND OF THOUGHTS.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.

Jas 1:20 for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.
Jas 1:21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
Jas 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Jas 1:25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.

has for what is IN your hearts i do not know,but read this words of Jesus ;Mt 12:34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.

i can read what you put up on this site in all the topics.

Satan as many ways to infiltrate the assembly of the righteous.

when you do not tell the truth of what God through the son and the prophets preaches you are lying,that simple.

YOU SHOULD START ALL YOUR QUOTES BY SAYING ,”THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE “NOT QUOTING SCRIPTURES HALF WAY AND THEN INTERPRETING THE VERY WORDS ,JUST LIKE THE WORD OF GOD NEED YOUR HELP, TO DEFINE IT BY YOU.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart

[Jodi Lee]

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.  34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Jeremiah 32:37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.  38 They shall be My people, and I will be their God;  39 then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. 40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.  41 Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.'  42 “For thus says the Lord: 'Just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them.

Ezekiel 36: 22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!” 33 'Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.' 36 Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it.”37 'Thus says the Lord God: “I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock. 38 Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” ' “

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah– 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[/b] 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Romans 11:26  And so all Israel will be saved,  as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;  27  For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”  28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.  29  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.  30  For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,  31  even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.  32  For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.  33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!  34  “For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”   35  “Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?”   36  For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

Man is truly a pathetic human being, extremely gullible and able to believe any ridiculous thing. Man is subjected to the influences around him and he makes choices by those influences. If THIS current world is what it looks like when our Heavenly Father is working His best efforts to save every man, He would  be a pathetic god and I would have NO FAITH in Him. However this is not the world of God's knowledge and God's influence, but that of man's. This is the age of God calling Leaders with Christ OUT of man's ways, and they are able to choose God all the more because they see the vile leadership of man that God is allowing to dominate our world. Without that contrast the Leaders in Christ themselves would be held in a state of blindness, but they are not, because God has given them a stark contrast between His ways and that of man's, so that they can see for themselves with their minds that indeed it is God's ways that are far better.

Do you really think that a man's influence is STRONGER more convincing than that of God's? The problem is you think some preacher and some mistranslated bible is God's means of saving souls. Most Christians truly have not been called by God, they have called themselves to false beliefs, and their vanity with their “free will” choice of choosing God is a despicable delusion, for it makes God's INFLUE
NCES weak over that of man's!

Is that NOT what you are spewing forth from your mouth terraricca, that in many cases for individuals a man's influence of evil is MORE POWERFUL and INFLUENTIAL, and therefore more INTELLIGENT, then that of YHWH's?  

What are man's influences? Do we see God out there in the world influencing on a personal level with every individual equally counteracting the evil influences with His own good influences and then FAILING? NO we see God calling out a select number, and the rest are the blind leading the blind, where God is allowing them to follow their own ways.

Why is God's statement in the given scriptures above SO BOLD and A MATTER OF FACT? “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.” Because when God chooses to work His influences man's influences are left in the dust, they will be loathed, they will be embarrassing.

The calling in the NT to preach the gospel and baptize was a calling made by people who were PERSONALLY ordained by God and Jesus to do so. Not only this but they were given the Holy Spirit and were calling people convincing them through the Powers that had been bestowed upon them. There has not existed a similar calling since that time. The idea that preachers have existed since then and it has been their duty to go around teaching the gospel and “saving souls”, as if that were God's great plan of salvation is a serious JOKE, for as said before it makes our Mighty YHWH look like a pathetic failure.

Since the time of Jesus there has not been a calling by God to EVERY person. There has existed ONLY the calling of future leaders, who will be resurrected at Christ's return and help him in establishing the Father's Kingdom. These leaders will work with Christ to established the Father's kingdom and prepare for the second resurrection. In the first resurrection those risen will be given immortality, while those of the second are not and they are raised into judgment. The judgment is the casting of people into the Lake of Fire. God is said to be a Consuming Fire, and those risen will be cast into His Working Spirit, where they are refined through having their sinful minds be changed. In that fire idol worshipers are destroyed, as well as liars, murderers and the sexual immoral. Not the people themselves are destroyed but that old identity is destroyed. God's Spirit destroys the sin, killing the sinner that is IN them. Death is said to be the last enemy that is destroyed and it is said to be cast into the Lake of Fire, so it should be rather obvious that the Lake of Fire is NOT a literal fire. Cast a person into the FULL influence of God's Spirit and all sin is burned away, and therefore the consequence of death vanishes away.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi……….How clear , how exact, how precise, The so-called FREE WILL salvation Choices is one of the greatest Lies ever to enter the mind of MANKIND.  It makes salvation about the SELF and not about GOD'S POWER.  It causes people to focus on the SELF instead on GOD. “They profess GOD, but deny the POWER Thereof”.

You have preached the TRUTH Sis,……Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

[terraricca]

jodi

in all your scriptures you present none is against i have say in my quote, they all exactly help in what i was explaining ,except that you interpreting it as DETERMINISM what is only partially true1/2

[GeneBalthrop]

Terraricca………Jodi has put it perfectly, it's you who only have 1/2 truth here not her or any who does not believe in your false teachings of a so-called “FREE WILL” Salvation of self works. Trying to confuse what she or I post by saying it is “DETERMINISM” is just another ploy to distort the truth. IMO

[terraricca]

gene

you know free will = responsability ,DETERMINISM =NOT RESPONSABLE FOR ARE CONDUCT.you juge the way you want to follow.

[terraricca]

gene

Ps 43:4 Then will I go to the altar of God,
to God, my joy and my delight.
I will praise you with the harp,
O God, my God.

Ps 43:5 Why are you downcast, O my soul?
Why so disturbed within me?
Put your hope in God,
for I will yet praise him,
my Savior and my God.

Ps 44:20 If we had forgotten the name of our God
or spread out our hands to a foreign god,
Ps 44:21 would not God have discovered it,
since he knows the secrets of the heart?

Ps 45:7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.
Ps 45:8 All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia;
from palaces adorned with ivory
the music of the strings makes you glad.
Ps 45:9 Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.

Isa 44:22 I have swept away your offenses like a cloud,
your sins like the morning mist.
Return to me,
for I have redeemed you.”

did you turn to God Gene ??or you still your own god and make your will master over God way ??

[terraricca]

gene

COL 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind

[GeneBalthrop]

Terraricca………Let's not twist it up , you are the one who believes in so-called “FREE WILL” Salvation not me. I believe as Paul said I find (NO) Good in My flesh “FOR TO (WILL) IS PRESENT WITH ME”. That is what you trust in (YOUR SO-CALLED “FREE WILL” SALVATION, NOT ME . I believe a man is (CREATED) unto good works, YOU believe your so-called “FREE WILL” does it, So let not twist up who believes what here. IMO

[terraricca]

gene

you say i believe in free will this is your interpretation because you want to go to the extreme of free will
you believe in determinism what at is extreme is totally stupid.

my free will is and always will be conditional to Gods law ,but you do not want to see that ,you are refusing to see God way not mine,

you preach not to be responsible for our actions ,and that s a lie you preach.

wen i quote you scriptures to show you that we have to chose righteousness over evil ,you say it is already determined for the outcome,that's a lie.

you make people robots

[Elizabeth]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2010,22:33)

hi to all i would like to inquire if the bible teaches the possibility of becoming a worshiper of God and choose to worship God or not. if we are not free and have no will to go with our freedom, then we have no decision to make it is done for us, and then no responsibility for our actions. if we have freedom and have a will to use then we are responsibility of our actions.

terraricca

If we had no free will, there would be no evil in this world, only robots.
Even angels were given a free will; a third of them chose not to obey God.

Georg

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