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As was Saul? On the road to Damascus, Saul was changed, by God, to a deciple of His (God) from a persecuter of the church. I guess God makes a better robot than man!
Nick………..From you mouth to God ear , may he make me His robot for ever, and fill me with His Holy Spirit to guide my heart and mind forever. Nothing could make me more happier. “O” GOD CREATE IN ME A RIGHT HEART AND MIND TO DO YOUR GOOD PLEASURE FOR EVER. I am fine with the Nick. How about you, does that go against you mind set. No way do you want to be the Fathers robot right, you want to be your own robot, attaining to life by your own so-call (FREE WILL) Choices. perhaps a God unto yourself right. Think about it brother
love and peace to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 27 2009,15:39) Nick………..From you mouth to God ear , may he make me His robot for ever, and fill me with His Holy Spirit to guide my heart and mind forever. Nothing could make me more happier. “O” GOD CREATE IN ME A RIGHT HEART AND MIND TO DO YOUR GOOD PLEASURE FOR EVER. I am fine with the Nick. How about you, does that go against you mind set. No way do you want to be the Fathers robot right, you want to be your own robot, attaining to life by your own so-call (FREE WILL) Choices. perhaps a God unto yourself right. Think about it brother love and peace to you and yours……………………..gene
Nick………..Same answer brother, I am not above Having the FATHER live and Have HIS being in me as you seem to do. Good luck on your own (FREE WILL) MAN.peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
NIck………But only with your permission right? Because you so-called (FREE WILL) must decide for it self.
love and peace to you brother…………………………gene
Hi,
God is gentle.
1Kings 19
11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
13And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
I have a problem with some individuals concept of free will since it makes it seem that our destiny is controlled more by the luck of the draw than our own hearts. I guess the question that needs to be asked is why do we choose what we choose?
Please have patience with me for going philosophical on this one as it seem it is the only way to go.
We choose according to what is in our heart.
When our heart is totally for him, then we choose as he desires.
Kerwin……..There is simply (NO) such thing as a (FREE) Will, only influenced WILLS exists. The false teaching of a Free will is only the (pride) of man, thinking He is the author and perfecter of His own destiny. All life comes from one Source and that Source is the LORD GOD Himself and not from any so-called (FREE WILL) Choices, only influenced Choices. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Gene wrote:
Quote There is simply (NO) such thing as a (FREE) Will, only influenced WILLS exists.
What do you call an influenced will? T8 makes the point that we choose according to what is in our heart. Would you say that he is saying our choice is influenced by what is in our heart? Would you agree with him?
Kerwin……… T8 is right,our Choices are influenced from the heart, Absolutely our choices are influenced choices, and therefore are not (FREE Choices) if they were Free Choices then there would be (NO) influencing at all. We are held captive by our Wills, which are influenced will. While Jesus came and set us free from that captivity he then led us captivity into another influenced WILL. ” He came and led a host of captivity, captive”, people who were in captivity to one way of thinking that they recieved from the world He set free and gave them another captivity (Godly thinking). Either way we are held captivity by our thoughts and therefore our WILLS are influenced WILLS, nothing to do with FREE WILL Choices at all. “for He works in us Both to (WILL) and do of (HIS) good Pleasure”.
Where does it say (WE) work in US to WILL and DO (OUR) good pleasure , as So-called (FREE WILL) thinking would imply. Man created the concept of (FREE) Will Choices to give themselves a GOD Power they never had. All Wills are only influenced Wills. God's Spirit influences our WILLS and caused us to Chose His way. We are all held captive by our thinking no matter what even if it is of the world , As John put it “all thats in the world the lust of the flesh and the list of the eyes and the Pride of life are (FROM) the world”, and these things enslave the minds and controls it, causing him to Will His desires and do them , Jesus came and set us free from that enslavement, but then enslaved us to another captivity of GOD”S WILL. ONLY ONE WILL WILL BE DONE and that is GOD”S WILL.
Again there is no such thing as (FREE WILLS) only Influenced WILLS. When People think they have the FREE WILL capacity to Chose their own salvation , that is their (PRIDE) talking thats all. They are far from truly Humble and of a contrite Heart. We chose nothing, we are granted Salvation through the GRACE (God's influencing on the heart) and it has nothing to do with our (So-Called) (FREE) Will choices that we from ourselves make. If it a gift of GOD lest (ANY) should Boast. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Gene wrote:
Quote T8 is right,our Choices are influenced from the heart.
So at this point what T8 regards as free choice and you regard as influenced choice are really the same. I believe Nick Hassan agrees with you both that our choices come from the heart. I want to propose perhaps there is a deeper influence that comes within ourselves for it is written:
Matthew 5:6(NIV) reads:
Quote Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
and yet we are told to seek to purify our hearts.
James 4:8(NIV) reads:
Quote Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
In addition we are told those that reject Jesus' teachings
John 3:19(NIV) reads:
Quote This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
So it seems there are two types of people those that hunger and thirst for righteousness and those who love darkness.
Is there anyone who disagrees with me on these points and if so what evidence do you have to back up your disagreement.
Kerwin……….(FREE WILL) and influenced WILL is not the same. The word (FREE) implies No Influencing of Any KIND. There is no such thing as (FREE WILLS). It is not even in Scriptures any where. WE are held captive by or thoughts and therefore we have a Captive Will. Nothing Free About it. Why do you think it say (YOUR WILL) be Done. Not our so called (FREE WILL), but GODS WILL be DONE. Our Wills are held captive by our thoughts and serve them.
Kerwin there are those who God the Father is drawing to Jesus NOW and those He is not at this time , but will later . Remember GOD said it is not He will that any Parish, and it also says that God does (ALL THING) after the council of His (OWN WILL). DO you see our wills being done here or God doing any thing according to (OUR WILLS). If He does (ALL) THINGS, according to His (OWN WILL) How does our wills play any part is the Process. We are Saved BY (GRACE) and that (NOT) of OURSELVES> It (IS) a GIFT OF GOD> IMO
love and peace to youand yours……………………………gene
Gene wrote:
Quote (FREE WILL) and influenced WILL is not the same.
What you say sounds like an argument of word choice. It is true that “Free Will” may not be the best choice of words but the meaning behind the words is what counts and that is what I am trying to discover. I see no reason to be distracted by the word choice at this time.
Gene wrote:
Quote Not our so called (FREE WILL), but GODS WILL be DONE.
You are introducing a new element which I have not addressed as of yet. I would rather make sure the foundation of our understanding is firm before attempting to build on it. But once I have done that I will address your point. Please be patient with the discussion and let me know if you agree with what I say so far and if not what scriptures you find to counter it.
Gene wrote:
Quote Kerwin there are those who God the Father is drawing to Jesus NOW and those He is not at this time , but will later .
Again I believe you are getting ahead of the rate of building being done but this one seems to be more related. If I understand you correctly you believe that God is now drawing those to Jesus those that hunger and thirst for righteousness but will later draw to Jesus those that love the darkness. That clearly contradicts the parable of the Wheat and Weeds.
Matthew 13:24-30(NIV) reads:
Quote Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' ” 'An enemy did this,' he replied. “The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' ” 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' “
I understand you wanting all people to be saved but that does not justify enabling evil and God is certainly not an enabler of evil as you are accusing Him of being.
Still I addressed your question because it does build on the foundation I have laid so far. It continues by pointing out that God is our creator and in creating us He created some for Satan’s servants as well as for the servants of Christ. Satan probably went to God and said your servants do well because they are not among mine in a similar manner that he did when God boasted of Job’s righteousness.
Again I ask for any disagreement and what the evidence to back up that disagreement is.
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