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Nick….you now garbing for straws, where does it say “You can Chose to have your pottery cleaned up for divine us”. You have no scripture to support you position. The scripture you list are things GOD does in us and are not the result of our doing, He causes us to chose his ways by His (GRACE) His influencing on our hearts and minds. You still are trying to be the potter and not the clay. You truing to make salvation a matter of ours works not God's work. The problem here is You fail to see the (SOVEREIGNTY) of GOD. True righteousness is a (CREATION) not a self choice. You need to reread what Paul said concerning the potter and the clay, and where He explained about Jacob and Esau showing God they themselves had nothing to do with their relationship with God, it was established before they were ever born.
You must come to understand it's by election and that election is not of and by yourself. Its of God. Whoever God plans to say will be saved rather you like it or not or even the person himself like PAUL when God chose to save Him. His conversion had nothing to do with his choices, but God choice.
In believing that (YOUR)choices is what saves you, you are following the path of false Christianity. Even Jesus told His disciples they did not choose Him but he chose them. Again to repeat myself you do not understand the (ABSOLUTE SOVEREIGNTY) OF GOD. Salvation is a (CREATION) of GOD, not man least any should boast.
Peace………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 14 2008,11:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 14 2008,05:10) GB,
God forces nobody to be saved.
God wants our choice involved.
Grace is never compulsion
Nick….. you now introduce a new word into our conversation the word (FORCE), GOD doesn't force anything He Simply CREATES IT NEW. “for we are (CREATED) unto good WORKS. Nick your losing site of the fact your the CLAY and the POTTER , does not ask you the CLAY for Your PERMISSION, He's the potter not you. Get the SELF out of your way, your works are about nothing , and let the SPIRIT DO THE WORK IN YOU>God's Spirit produces God's ways in our heart and minds, and we then act it out in our lives. The self centered carnal mind must go. You can not save yourself by your own choices you will fail. God produces the Choices by His Spirit in Us. Jesus said he could do (NOTHING) of himself , and went on to say the FATHER (IN) ME He do the the works.You say “GOD want our choices involved”, where is that written at< God works in his choices in us by his GRACE (God's influencing in our hearts and mind to make His choices, He recreates us into new beings, with new hearts and minds, (HE) cleanses us from (ALL) unrighteousness. It's His work alone not our works.
You say “GRACE is never compulsion” , Grace most certainly is a compulsion it compels us through influencing in our hearts to do GOD”S WILL.
Peace……………..gene
Hi brother Gene,
That is a wonderful post on negating the so called 'free will' of man. I think that should settle this another myth called 'FREE WILL'.Thanks and love to you
AdamGB,
Yes you could choose to support the idea of helplessness but on the other hand you could take responsibility for your steps carrying your cross and cooperating with grace.Nick…..who said i was helpless, God has strengthen me to follow Him by the Spirit He has given me, it guides me and teaches me (ALL) things and convinces me to follow the steps of Jesus Christ. Where do you get the idea i am helpless i have been empowered by GOD i am far from helpless. There was a time when i was Helpless and bound captive by sin and the lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes and pride of life, but thanks be to God the Father, (not me), who sent his son to died for my sins I was set free from that Helplessness and am no longer helpless because of the Spirit He has given me, That Spirit guides my thoughts and it both (ACCUSES) me and (DEFENDS) me, it imputes to me Both the understanding and gives me the Will to do the Will of My Heavenly Father.
Your use the term carrying your cross , is that not what the Grace of God does in our lives it (causes us ) to put our (WILL'S) to death, the way Jesus did His.
Tell us how much of the Glory of your salvation do you claim, is it 1% or 5% 30% 75% or 100%, where do you fit in that percentile . Who much of your salvation does GOD do? Jesus said he could do nothing of Himself, but you on the other hand somehow can by your so-called 'free choices” which is nothing more than “free will” theology save yourself.
peace to you…………….gene
Adam…..it should, but it won't, the carnal mind will never let go of thinking it is it's own salvation and has power to chose it own destiny, it hates the idea of a truly (SOVEREIGN) God who is over all things that exists and retains total power over all things. Man does not want to (image) GOD He wants to (be) GOD.
love and peace to you and yours Adam……………..gene
Gb,
You may choose to believe you are being led and taught by the Spirit but how can this be when you prefer the teachings of scientists and the philosphy of universalism to the scriptures?Nick……again where did i ever say I (Preferred) anyones teaching over Scriptures, I may (Prefer) another's teaching over (YOUR) understanding of what scripture says, but when did i (EVER) say I prefer anyones teaching over scripture. You need to stop saying things about people that they never said, is that the example you recieve from Christ. You need to use your so-called free choice and repent of this false accusing of me and others.
I as well as many others have presented many scriptures to back up our positions , but your inability or unwillingness to understand them is not because we prefer others over you supposed understand of scriptures. It's because you don't understand what the posted scriptures are saying, that the problem Nick.
peace and love to you…………………..gene
GB,
It is possible to choose to believe anything but faithfulness demands we prefer the teaching of scripture to that of the world.Quote (chosenone @ Nov. 13 2008,12:16) Nick.
Because Jesus teaching was to the Jews only, see Matt.15:24. I was saved by “Grace”.
Hi CO:Everyone that is saved is saved by “faith” so that it might be by “grace”.
And Jesus stated:
Quote Mat 16:14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Is “his church” limited to Jews alone? If not, how then is his teaching solely to the Jews?
God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2008,08:44) GB,
It is possible to choose to believe anything but faithfulness demands we prefer the teaching of scripture to that of the world.
Nick….right but that faithfulness does (NOT) demand we perceive scriptures in the light of your personal understanding does it. Thats the problem here it's not that we are unfaithful to scriptures as you say, but it's you thinking you understand it better then we do and therefore you refuse to commit on and just ignore the many scriptures we post. You positions yourself as one who knows scripture better the we and this pride causes you to make continual condescending remarks to us all. Look no one has (ALL) understanding Nick and that includes you also. We are to growing in GRACE (AND) KNOWLEDGE and Not stay stagnate in past understandings but GROW.said in love, not hate Nick……………..gene
GB,
You should listen to Jesus as words will not pass away.
Nor will any of the words of God given through any godly servant.They deserve more respect than those of Newton or the universalists.
Grace came through Jesus and not these other puny men.Nick.
We, Gene and I, believe what Jesus said, you don't. This is an example …Matt.15:24 Now He (Jesus), answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”Why only pick some scriptures to believe, but not all?
CO,
Why should it read to you that because the servant Jesus was sent to the Jews his gospel is useless to others?You should show more respect to the King.
His words are eternal and blessed.
Life and Spirit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2008,07:17) CO,
You would suggest we listen to him?
Good.
Nick.
We should believe what He says, not much use listening if we don't believe Him, agreed?CO,
Yes he is the anointed one sent to the chosen people and thence to the nations through his brothers.
One gospel, one kingdom, one body, one Spirit.
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