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Gene,
The cause is my motivations and I am judged by those same motivations. It is my motivations, not God’s or anyone or anything else’s.
In short I am the cause and that is free will.
T8……Freedom is not in the will itself, it is in GOD ALLOWING the will (a caused Condition) freedom of expression.
Here is an example, I have freedom to drive my car (lets call it my will) down the road. I am saying my car has no freedom “ITSELF” WHY?, BECAUSE IT IS CONTROLLED BY ME, THE CAR CAN ONLY GO WHERE I “CAUSE” IT TO GO IN THE DIRECTION I CHOSE, IT (the will) i.e. the car, CAN’T CHOSE ANYTHING OR GO ANY WHERE BY ITSELF, NITHER CAN A MANS will, because what is driving the car or (will) is in control.
Now if the spirit of GOD IS CONTROLLING OUR WILLS THEN WE WILL FUNCTION AS HE DOES, that is why without thespirit of God being in us we can only do what type or kind of spirit that is abiding in us. That is waht is controlling the will , nonthing free about it. True rightiousness is not a matter of a carnel captivated will it is the result of a will captivated by the spirit of GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
T8….Why shoul i start another thread about what is a freewill, when no such thing as a will “ITSELF” EXISTING IN ANY KIND OF A FREE STATE? either way you look at it, we are only doing what the spirits working IN US is CAUSING US TO WILL TO DO. THE spirits are doing the controlling of our wills. Our wills do not control us, we (our spiritual componet) controls our wills. Now if the will is controlled by the spirit then it ‘ITSELF” is not free at all, infact OUR WILL’S, exists in a state of “CAPTAVITY” being held presioner by the spirits controlling it.
Therefore it says, “HE CAME to set the “captives” free, free from what if our wills were already free?, that which IS HOLDING them captive thats what. Again “if CHRIST set you free you are free indeed”, free from what , whats holding you captive that’s what. Now if you were held captive do you think your WILL WASEN’T ALSO?
WE THROUGHT THE SPIRIT OF GOD ARE DELIVERED FROM ONE CAPTIVITY state TO ANOTHER ONE, BY THE SPIRIT of the living GOD. That is why a person that is truly saved will ALWAYS CHOSE GOD’S no matter what, WHY?, BY THE SPIRIT of GOD ABIDING “IN” HIM. GOD CAN predict, predestine OUR FUTURES, HOW?, “because he (GOD) that abides “IN” US is greater, then he that abides in the world” (thats us).
There is no future CHANCE of, will we or we won’t why?, BECAUSE, WE WILL, WHY?, BECAUSE OF THE SPIRIT THAT ABIDES ” IN” US. Just as it says, WE ARE BEING CHANGED BY THE RENEWING OF OUR MINDS, WHICH ALSO CHANGES OUR WILLS. When you understand this truth there are so many scriptures that come to mind and begin to make clear sense. IMO.
OUR SALVATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A CHANCE OF US CHOOSING IT, BUT OF God creating it “IN” US. OR HAVEN’T YOU READ ” FOR WE ARE BEING “CREATED” UNTO GOOD WORKS. ” true rightious is a CREATION it has apsolutely nothing to do with any so-called FREE SELF WILLED CHOICE. Even our repentence must be CAUSED BY GOD, or we on our own would never in a million years come to truly repent, want scripture i can get them for you if you like.
I anyone needs to appoligise and admit their wrong T8 IT IS YOU. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Gene,
T8 has a point about you addressing actual points you have and not sticking to an error you should realize you made. You are correct that we have free will only because God allows it. That is also cause and effect as the cause is God chooses not to control our will and the effect is our will is not controlled by God. Another effect is we are responsible for our own choices.
Kerwin. ……that is why i said over and over i was not talking about the freedom GOD HAS GIVEN US TO EXPRESS OUR CAPTIVATED WILL, BUT ABOUT THE VERY will itself. I must have said that over several hundred times,i knew what you guys were saying , that is why i was saying i am not talking about that.
Now you are wrong about saying God choose not to control our wills though, here is why,
Phi 2:12……> Wherefore my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. NOW PAY ATTINTION TO THIS KERWIN, VERSE 13..> “FOR IT IS “GOD” WHICH “WORKS” “IN” YOU “BOTH” TO WILL AND TO DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE”.
Kerwin did you see that brother, so if God WORKS in us “TO WILL”, then GOD IS CAUSING US “TO WILL” SO WE CAN DO “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE. Again this proves our wills “THEMSELVES” ARE NOT FREE, but are subject to whats driving and influencing them. Even if they can be freely expressed in the world.
I honestly believe you and T8 BOTH KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING. I don’t think it’s that confusing. I could be wrong but i don’t believe so.
peace and love to you and yours…………gene
Gene,
It is a free will not a captivated will. What you call captivated is nothing more than the motivation.
Kerwin…… Motivation is what forms the will, the will is the product of what is motivating it. And of course movotation comes from what is captivating our thinking. It’s a complete process working in us Kerwin, that is why i say the will will is not free ITSELF, because it is a product of whats going on in our minds, i know you understand this Kerwin.
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
Gene,
You seem to be wanting to make a new language.
Will is the ability to make choice.
Motivation is why I make a choice.
Free will does not mean free of all things. It just means God does not make my choice. An atheist would say faith. Others may to.My ability to choose is not controlled by God or fate but it is controlled my my motivation.
My actions are my own and I am responsible for them.
Kerwin…….All your action are the result of what in your captivated mind and heart, what do you think scripture means wher it say “HE CAME TO SET THE CAPTIVES FREE” WHAT PART OF US IS HELD CAPTIVE? is it not our hearts and minds, and again, why does God say “HE” will remove our hard hearts, and give us hearts of flesh, and “HE” will write his laws in our inward parts and then we shall be his people and he our God?
If God does this and writes his law in our inward parts, we will keep them, but only if “HE” creates us that way, or we would ever in a million years chose his way by a so-called free will CHOICE, at least it has not happened to amyone so far. According the to what God has said, “there is NONE THAT SEEKS GOD, “NO” NOT EVEN ONE, THEY HAVE ALL TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFFITABLE”, Well so much for a so-called freewill choice choosing GODS WAY, AND if we will all be judged by our own choices we have mad then NO ONE CAN BE SAVED BY THEIR SO-CALLED freewill choices.
Kerwin your problem here is you are not applying the SUME of scriptures to your reasoning. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Gene,
The only reason a person is captive to sin is because they have not yet received the Spirit.
Abraham was a captive of sin and yet chose to believe.
Jesus sets us free by giving us the Spirit.
We then have a choice of continuing to live a life that fall short of God’s glory or to do all God commands.
Each individual given the opportunity to make this choice has a motive for their choice.
Each will be judged for that cause.
Jesus sets us free by giving us the Spirit.
Kerwin,
JESUS SET US FREE WHEN THROUGH HIS BLOOD REMOVED THE EVIL SPIRIT SATANA FROM WITHIN OUR SOULS, AND MAINTAINED WHAT WE ORIGINALLY HAD FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD HIDDEN IN US,AS THE REBELLIOUS ANGELS WHICH WAS: “THE WORD” JESUS’SPIRIT REV.13:8
THE FACT THAT THE WORLD WAS CREATED BY,IN, AND FOR ” THE WORD”
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Carmel,
Those who live by the Spirit are free from captivity to sin as it clearly teaches us the fruit of the Spirit is righteousness.
Are you calling the flesh nature the Spirit of Santana?
Jesus sealed covenant with his blood. Without his blood the Spirit would not be received and so could not be lived by.
And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
Gene, the LORD God allowed men to freely eat from any tree but one, and they were also free to disobey that one command too. And you want me to believe that there is no free will.
You are an unrepentant time waster Gene. How about fight about something that really matters instead of creating artificial combats and unnecessary divisions?
Free will exists. Time to give up gracefully.
lol and shakes head.
Let’s see if you have humbled yourself and changed for the better, or whether pride is the order of the day.
Please answer this question with a yes or no.
Did God give mankind free will?
Yes / No
T8…..if i put a dog in a back yard , he can freely go where ever he chosses, does he have a free will, you would say yes, but i would say no, because he can only do what all dogs do,
God could never predict anything reguarding human if what you say is true, why?, because according to you his will is free, and tberefore he could never be predicted to do any thing, or it would break his “free” will choice, so Godcould not have predestined any one including Jesus, John the baptist, king Cyrus, Pharoah, Jeremiah the prophet, he could not say the things about Jacob and Esau, like Jacob have i loved and Esau have i hated even befor they were born, because after all it’s has to be all a matter of freewill, right?
T8 if anyone needs to humble himself, and be a man and admit his error, it is you, now lets see if you can do that ,if you can practice what you preach. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
You do not understand free will Gene, No one teaches that it is the ability to do anything. Rather it is the ability to choose among available options. Once you clear that up, you do not have an argument.
God let man eat freely of any tree in the garden except one. That is free will in a nutshell.
Can we move on now, or do I have to take you to the Hot Seat.
I have decided that we need to use the Hot Seat more to weed out useless arguments in these forums.
Also, look at the new rules in the Hot Seat please. There are implications if a person does not answer questions there. See the rules.
Next two questions
Did God allow man to eat freely from any tree except one? Yes / No
Was man still able to eat from the one tree he was commanded not to? Yes / No
T8…..you still are stuck in thinking i am denying we have freedom to express our captivated will, i know we can choose among many options, but you will chose the option that is greatest influencing you, hardly a will it self begin free.
Why have you not responded to the point i made about , Jesus. John the Baptist, Pharoah, king cryus, jacob and Esau. How does you so-called free will doctrine meet that? Dodging around and not addressing the posts, only shows you simply have no answer to those questions right?
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
T8…..whileyourtoiling withthe above post, here is another one for you.
Jeremiah 35:18-19….> And Jeremiah said unto the house of the Rechabites, Thus says the LORD OF HOSTS, the God of Israel; because you have obeyed the commandment of Jonadab your father, and kept all his precepts, and done according unto all he commanded you: 19, Therefore this says the LORD OF HOSTS the God of Israel; Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not want a man to stand before me for ever.
Now tell us T8, HOW COULD GOD MAKE THAT PREDICTION, IF WE ALL HAVE WILL THAT ARE COMPLETELY FREE, AS YOU BELIEVE, HOW WOULD GOD EVEN KNOW THAT WOULD HAPPEN, AFTER ALL A MAN WITH A TRULY FREEWILL COULD CHANGE HIS MIND AT ANY TIME, RIGHT? Because God does not control anyone’s wills, right?
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Gene B.
Either you have free will or you don’t.
There is no in between. If you think you don’t have free will, then you are under the oppressor.
Your mind is controlled not by self, but by the oppressor. Can not say to Christ; I was made to do it.
Just like what Adam said to God; the woman made me do it.
You need to be free from the oppressor. The truth shall make you FREE.wakeup.
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