Free Will?

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca…………We Chose what we do by what is already (IN) our Minds and that is the influencing going on in us. And if it were impossible for GOD to Change our thinking then no one could ever be saved. “FOR HE (GOD) (WORKS) (IN US) BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE”. What part of that simple scripture do you not understand. According to your false teachings it is all up to You so who needs GOD then to change anything right? After all God cant (REALLY) CREATE IN US A NEW HEART , now can HE?. All who believe in a Will that is FREE lacks understanding, every effect had a (CAUSE) of Some kind behind it. You steal Glory from GOD as other so-called ” FREE WILLER”S do to. Your are a GOD unto YOURSELF but just do not see it yet.

peace and love………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2010,10:49)

Hi Gene, I killed the 'ego' long ago! I now will use my “Free Will” to follow God's will (influence) in my life!                               Christian = God's Will A Christian is one who will use their “Free Will” to follow God's will! Theomatically: Christian and God's will both equal 101(the 26th Prime number). The identity of יהוה=26 is “GOD”=26 spoken as YÄ-hä-vā: where ä sounds like that of the word “ah” and the other ā sounds like the vowel in the word “hay”; and [יה] is spoken as YÄ=26! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org PS. The “Tree of Life” equals 101 as well!

EDJ…………Post scriptures that say that instead of making up things to meet your personal thinking. Show us where any scripture say now we have free wills working (IN) us. or for that matter ever did. Assumption are just that assumptions. Jesus said the son of man came (NOT) to do (HIS) WILL but the WILL of HIM who Sent HIM, but you say You do your own so-called “FREE” WILL . Jesus did not even say he had a “FREE” WILL now did he Just a WILL he never said one time that that Will was a “FREE” WILL. He had to put (HIS) Will to death in order to do Gods Will, the same as we have to. So his will nor any truly converted Saint's Will counts for anything only God's Will does. We obey that Will because that will is working (IN) us through GOD the Fathers HO:Y Spirit given to us. We have died unto ourselves, but Self Willer's have not dieded unto themselves yet.
So it is with all self willer's they are the one in control of their lives not GOD. They are GOD'S unto themselves. Or as you say ego I GOD'S. Ego and MY mean and focus on the same thing so i highely doubt you have put it to death. Think about it>

peace and love………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2010,09:42)

Mike Boll 64, I believe Gene is not always clear about his points.  Adam's choice was influenced by his internal will even though God created him upright.  It is possible Adam acted in ignorance but assuming the fruit of the tree of knowledge was unique he should have known better.

Kerwin………Exactly, they did there OWN WILLS and this was there desire to do and there subtle Natures (CAUSED) them to do it. It was working (IN) them driving them to disobey GOD and that same Nature is at work (IN) all the childern of disobedience who have Not the Spirit of GOD in them, they seek their own “FREE” WILLS not GOD'S Will. Because the Will of GOD is not (IN) them. or (IT) would put their Will to death just as it did (IN) Jesus also. There is (ONLY) One WILL that will be done and that is GOD the Fathers WILL. The Kingdom of GOD is expressed (IN) HIS WILL Alone.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Hi Gene,

I really wonder sometimes what Bible you read upon becoming a Christian because some of your ideas are way off base man.  

You want Jesus to be exactly like we are regardless of what the scriptures teach, because in your mind it makes it EASIER for you to achieve what Jesus did.

And you want to think that God is “influencing your own decisions” for you.  Why?  Is it like Pierre said?  If you can convince yourself that you are not fully responsible for your actions, do you think the Judge will go EASIER on you?

I don't think God ever “influenced” me to steal and do drugs and all kinds of other vile stuff throughout my lifetime……do you?  I do, however, know for a fact that when faced with trouble, I can ask my God for help and strength and he will deliver it.  But it is still ultimately MY free will that will decide what course I will take.  I don't HAVE to follow the advice the Lord sends me.  But I know the consequences of ignoring it are not ever going to turn out as good as the consequences of following it.

To me it's like this:  God laid out the rules, sent His own Son as an example of how to follow them, and made known to us what the consequences of our actions will be.  We have our own free will to decide whether or not to live by His rules and follow His Son's example.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 11 2010,11:41)

There is (ONLY) One WILL that will be done and that is GOD the Fathers WILL.

Hi Gene,

You spoke correctly here.  God's will alone will ultimately be done.  When He sends out His Word, it never comes back without fulfilling His purpose.

That being said, it is God's will that if we follow the rules He laid out, we shall live.  If not, we shall die.  And that will of God will be done without fail.

We know the rules.  And God has created us with our own free wills so that we are able to decide whether or not to follow those rules.

Like I said before, God doesn't want a bunch of “yes-man” robots that He has “mind-control” over.  He wants to reward the children that of their own free will decide to love and obey Him.

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2010,11:06)

gene what sin did you commit that you can not see your self responsible for ,that so you can not accept the truth of our responsibility,and so deny truth of free will ,it would be unjust for God to judge us if we have no choice in to either pick good or bad. and we know that we all will face the tribunal of Christ. Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

Excellent Post!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 11 2010,11:19)

Terricca………… All who believe in a Will that is FREE lacks understanding, every effect had a (CAUSE) of Some kind behind it. peace and love………………………gene

Hi Gene,

What makes you 'think' you're the judge of those who lack understanding?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 11 2010,11:33)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2010,10:49) Hi Gene, I killed the 'ego' long ago! I now will use my “Free Will” to follow God's will (influence) in my life!                               Christian = God's Will A Christian is one who will use their “Free Will” to follow God's will! Theomatically: Christian and God's will both equal 101(the 26th Prime number). The identity of יהוה=26 is “GOD”=26 spoken as YÄ-hä-vā: where ä sounds like that of the word “ah” and the other ā sounds like the vowel in the word “hay”; and [יה] is spoken as YÄ=26! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org PS. The “Tree of Life” equals 101 as well! EDJ…………Post scriptures that say that instead of making up things to meet your personal thinking. Show us where any scripture say now we have free wills working (IN) us. or for that matter ever did. Assumption are just that assumptions. Jesus said the son of man came (NOT) to do (HIS) WILL but the WILL of HIM who Sent HIM, but you say You do your own so-called “FREE” WILL . Jesus did not even say he had a “FREE” WILL now did he Just a WILL he never said one time that that Will was a “FREE” WILL. He had to put (HIS) Will to death in order to do Gods Will, the same as we have to. So his will nor any truly converted Saint's Will counts for anything only God's Will does. We obey that Will because that will is working (IN) us through GOD the Fathers HO:Y Spirit given to us. We have died unto ourselves, but Self Willer's have not dieded unto themselves yet. So it is with all self willer's they are the one in control of their lives not GOD. They are GOD'S unto themselves. Or as you say ego I GOD'S. Ego and MY mean and focus on the same thing so i highely doubt you have put it to death. Think about it> peace and love………………………gene

Hi Gene,

Were these people influenced causing them to lose their “Free Will”?

Lev.22:18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them,
Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation
for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;

Lev.22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow,
or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.

Lev.22:23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts,
that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

Lev.23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows,
and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Numbers 15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow,
or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savor unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

Numbers 29:39 These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows,
and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings,
and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.

Deut.12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings
of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

Deut.12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine,
or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest,
nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

Deut.16:10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of
a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God,
according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

Deut.23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering,
according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

2Chron.31:14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east,
was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

Ezra 1:4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver,
and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Ezra 3:5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the
set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

Ezra 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites,
in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 7:16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering
of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:

Ezra 8:28 And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also;
and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.

Psalm 119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 11 2010,11:33)

So it is with all self willer's they are the one in control of their lives not GOD. They are GOD'S unto themselves. Or as you say ego I GOD'S. Ego and MY mean and focus on the same thing so i highely doubt you have put it to death. Think about it> peace and love………………………gene

Hi Gene,

No; they say 'i am' to the bitter end! (Ezek.28:9)
Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name,
saying, 'i am'; and shall deceive many.

No you put yourself as judge as to whether I put the 'ego' to death or not?

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

EDJ……….If you looked up those words used there you would see they are a (voluntary) and Have nothing to do with the OXYMORON Word “FREE WILL” because no will Exists in a FREE STATE. Why don't you try looking up those Word for a change in the Hebrew text. Then come back and post them correctly as several her have already done in the past. Surely a number man like yourself can do this right?

peace and love…………………………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 11 2010,12:53)

EDJ……….If you looked up those words used there you would see they are a (voluntary) and Have nothing to do with the OXYMORON Word “FREE WILL” because no will Exists in a FREE STATE.  Why don't you try looking up those Word for a change in the Hebrew text. Then come back and post them correctly as several her have already done in the past. Surely a number man like yourself can do this right? peace and love…………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Voluntary will “ “ “IS” ” ” Free Will!!!

I have looked this up before for you; do you not remember?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Volintary Will is NOT a “FREE” WILL at all But a SELF DESIRE TO DO SOMETHING. You are still confusing LIBERTY to exercise our (INFLUENCED) or captivated WILLS AS US HAVING (IN) US A SO-CALLED “FREE” WILL Which is and OXYMORON because there exist no such thing as a will the is “FREE” of INFLUENCE so there exist not such thing of a “FREE WILL” (IN) a person. Common sense should tell you that it doesn't take a brain scientist to figure that out. IMO

peace and love…………………………gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 11 2010,13:21)

Volintary Will is NOT a “FREE” WILL at all But a SELF DESIRE TO DO SOMETHING. You are still confusing LIBERTY to exercise our (INFLUENCED) or captivated  WILLS AS US HAVING (IN) US A SO-CALLED “FREE” WILL Which is and OXYMORON because there exist no such thing as a will the is “FREE” of INFLUENCE so there exist not such thing of a “FREE WILL” (IN) a person. Common sense should tell you that it doesn't take a brain scientist to figure that out. IMO peace and love…………………………gene

Hi Gene,

At least you admit your Post is 'only' your opinion!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

Ignore Gene’s definition of free will and look instead at the ideas he expresses. Do you agree with Gene that Adam acted out of his own will instead of submitting himself to God’s?

I believe you do.

[seekingtruth]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 10 2010,17:21)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 09 2010,05:06) Kerwin……..The combination of the word FREE and WILL is an OXYMORON brother no such thing can exist. It is unfortunate the Old testament translators used that instead of Voluntary offing. I do agree with you about a voluntary action as comming (FROM) a WILL in us though. Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………….gene I disagree Gene, I remember when I was young sitting at the dinner table my dad telling me that he could get me mad anytime he wanted. Being a cocky teenager I assured him that was not going to happen. Well with in a couple of minutes he had me spouting and sputtering. Did I have a choice? Yes I did, but dad knew how to manipulate me (and I learned a valuable lesson from it). I believe that when God said “I will harden the heart of Pharaoh” He was referring to His setting up circumstances (based on Pharaoh's character) that would result in Pharaoh's choice being God's choice. So If that is what you mean by no “free will” then I agree, but as I see it that is free will. My opinion – Wm

Gene,
I was interested if the example I gave is what you define as “Voluntary offing” as I do not understand it.

Thanks – Wm

[GeneBalthrop]

Seekingtruth………….If you look up the word used there in the text you find it should read voluntary offering. So let think about that a little, say you were one of those Isrealites and You decided from your self to give a offering to God, not a commanded offering but just a offering because you just decided to give it on your own. And offering is a gift so you in a sense are giving GOD a Gift from yourself, no one is forcing you to You just decided to. You are volunteering that gift from yourself right. But the question is why did you decide to give it was it, was it an instant thought that just popped up in you mind or was that offering coming from some kind of (INFLUENCE) WORKING IN YOU. That thought that cause you to will to give that offering came from withing you and it was (CAUSED) by past associations and Experiences, and these drove you to give it, nothing “FREE” about it. A will is not a Will if it existences out side of (INFLUENCES) Not GODS Or MANS. “FOR GOD DOES (ALL THING) AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OD HIS WILL”. So do we.

The work used there is just a offering you decided to give on your own, and that was considered a Voluntary offering Just as it would be today. It is a offering coming from the self and scripture say a man was free to do that if he want to. But that word does not imply that offering was the Work of a WILL that was FREE at all. But a Will that was INFLUENCED to DO it, by the thought in the Mind. None of those thought are FREE Thoughts but influenced Thoughts. There is not such thing a will the is “FREE” all wills are driven wills from what is going on in our minds and that is the same with GOD also.

Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2010,14:35)

Mike Boll, Ignore Gene’s definition of free will and look instead at the ideas he expresses.  Do you agree with Gene that Adam acted out of his own will instead of submitting himself to God’s? I believe you do.

Absolutely Kerwin.

Go on……

mike

[SimplyForgiven]

TO ALL:
NOTE that this thread is no longer about “Free will” but what the individual believes Free will is.
Gene clearly is debating against the true root literal meaning of what free will means.
**So IGNORE the repetitive posts about what Free will is and about Influenced will and about the oxymoron of the word “free will” and how it doesnt exist.
He has failed to notice that we believe “will” is we typically just call it “free will”

for example WE LOVE because God loved us first. (cuase and effect, influenced, a will, but yet we choose to love blah blah blah whatever.) 1 John 5.

we ALL basically agree about what “will” whether influenced or not, or by some kindof of Cause and Effect, or by choice
we all basically agree with these concepts,
the only thing we are debating about is MISUNDERSTANDINGS about what we think “free will” is.
call it what you like, we basically believe in the same thing.
T8 and I have figured this out a long time ago.
Dont waste your time argueing for nothing.

[GeneBalthrop]

“SF………..It is hardly nothing when it involves the very thinking that caused man to separate from GOD in the first place. I never ever disagree with the fact we all have WILLS now did I?, What i have over and over disagreed with is the fact that those will are not FREE at ALL. and Have proven it over and over. They are (INFLUENCED) WILL that are at work in us and Not FREE AT ALL but Caused. And you can mouth off all you want but the Facts are that very thinking is what caused the Fall of Man Kind in the beginning and this is a very important subject to think about. Rather you understand it or not is irrelevant as far as i am concerned.

peace and love………………………….gene

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

If you agree we all have a will and that will has the power to
choose that then is the definition of “Free Will”; case closed!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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