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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 22 2010,00:28) To all………..”All that is (in) the world the lust of the eyes , and the lust of the flesh and the Pride of life are (FROM) the world”. All these thing guide man will and his decisions and He could never by his captiated Will Chose God's way in a million years, So GOD must intervene in our lives through His Spirit and impart a new captivity , but first he remove the old and establishes a new one. Therefore it say He led captives , captive. Jesus first set the captives free, this frees there (worldly INFLUENCED Wills) and then leads then captive again by the spirit of God. 'WE ARE (CREATED) UNTO GOOD WORKS, a so-called Will “FREE WILL” has nothing to do with it, because no such Will exists not with GOD or man. IMO peace and love to you all…………………………gene
And what of Judas? Did Christ fail in his attempt to set him free or was it something that Judas did that blocked Christ's attempts?
Judas was being influenced by Christ himself in person and yet did not get set free of the world and it's lusts. How did this happen?Revelation 19:7 [ Marriage of the Lamb ] “Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.”
The entire culmination of scripture and the story of man and God is brought to fulfillment in the marriage of the Lamb and how does God say this?
“His bride has made herself ready.”
It does not say God made her ready. It does not say that it was the influence of God that made her ready. It says she made herself ready. In other words she made choices that made her ready for the marriage with herself as the bride. If she did it then she had to have the ability to make at least some of the choices herself.martian………….”NO MAN (CAN) COME UNTO ME (EXCEPT) THE FATHER DRAW HIM”. JUDAS FROM THE BEGINNING WAS DESTINED TO DO WHAT HE DID, HE HAD (NO) SAY IN THE MATTER. and again “HAVE NOT I CHOSEN YOU ALL AND ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL” < For he knew from the (beginning ) who was to betray Him. And again Jesus said He chose them and they did not chose HIM, SO WHERE IS "FREE WILL" AT in all this. And again, "FOR WHOM HE FOREKNEW HE ALSO PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED UNTO THE IMAGE OF HIS DEAR SON". God the father may have far more hand in our destinies then we even being to imagine. Why do you think It say HIS ELECT for. WE are called the ELECT of GOD did we Elect ourselves if so when and How seeing scripture says "its is not withing a man to direct his paths". Think about it brother.
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (martian @ July 23 2010,06:50) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 22 2010,00:28) To all………..”All that is (in) the world the lust of the eyes , and the lust of the flesh and the Pride of life are (FROM) the world”. All these thing guide man will and his decisions and He could never by his captiated Will Chose God's way in a million years, So GOD must intervene in our lives through His Spirit and impart a new captivity , but first he remove the old and establishes a new one. Therefore it say He led captives , captive. Jesus first set the captives free, this frees there (worldly INFLUENCED Wills) and then leads then captive again by the spirit of God. 'WE ARE (CREATED) UNTO GOOD WORKS, a so-called Will “FREE WILL” has nothing to do with it, because no such Will exists not with GOD or man. IMO peace and love to you all…………………………gene
And what of Judas? Did Christ fail in his attempt to set him free or was it something that Judas did that blocked Christ's attempts?
Judas was being influenced by Christ himself in person and yet did not get set free of the world and it's lusts. How did this happen?
martian…………Where does it say Christ came a set (ALL) Free, it say He came to set captives free, but why were they captives in the first place if they all had “FREE WILL”. There should not have been any captives right according to “FREE” Will theology? It say He led captive a host of captives. It does not say He led (ALL) captives, Free . Another thing He set them Free to capture them again as servants of God, he free us from one captivity to another.Still no mention of FREE WILL at all, in fact not one Scripture in all the bible say there is a “FREE” Will working (IN) anyone. I have ask for (ONE) Scripture that say we have a “FREE WILL” (IN) Us so far not one scripture say that. Guss why because we don't to Have Wills that are “FREE” in us at all. WE have captivated Will by the INFLUENCES Working (IN) us. Simple if you think about it brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Is this topic still going. I thought it was put to rest.
I guess some are choosing to keep posting and who am I to say they cannot freely choose to do so.Eph.1:11 … in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
Ro.8:8 … Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.
2Cor.5:18 …Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
Eph.2:10 …For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
Eph.2:8 …For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
1Cor.8:6 …nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is.
1Cor.11:12 …yet all is of God.
Ro.11:36 …seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!
Phil.2:13 …for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight.
2Tim.2:10 …Therefore I am enduring all because of those who are chosen…
Col.3:12 … Put on, then, as God's chosen ones…
Ro.8:33 …Who will be indicting God's chosen ones?
Ro.11:7 … What then? What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it.
Ro.9:11 … that the purpose of God may be remaining as a choice, not out of acts, but of Him Who is calling,
Ro.11:32 …For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
And one last scripture…
Ro.11:33-36 … O, the depth of the riches and the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How inscrutable are His judgments, and untraceable His ways!
34 For, who knew the mind of the Lord? or, who became His adviser?
35 or, who gives to Him first, and it will be repaid Him?
36 seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!How can anyone who believes scripture deny Gods will over their own???
God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (t8 @ July 27 2010,15:06) Is this topic still going. I thought it was put to rest.
I guess some are choosing to keep posting and who am I to say they cannot freely choose to do so.
Hi T8,You're right!
This thread is certainly a waste of my “Free Will” time!
But Gene can't help but to continually Posting in this thread,
because his 'captive will' will NOT allow him “to choose” otherwise!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (chosenone @ July 30 2010,05:02) How can anyone who believes scripture deny Gods will over their own 
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Jerry,It's certainly the believers “Free Will” choice
to “Choose” to put God's will above our own!
Jesus faithfully taught us this important truth!Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this
cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not
left me alone; for I do always (willingly) those things that please him.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J……..Adding word into scriptures and forcing the text to fit you dogmas is hardly what a true seeker of the truth would do, Jesus did the will of GOD Because GOD (was (IN) him. “FOR HE (GOD) WORK IN US BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF HIS (GOD'S) GOOD PLEASURE”> Misquoting and misrepresenting scriptures is far from the truth. You have yet to produce (ONE) scripture that says we Have a Free Will (IN) us.
PEACE AND LOVE………………gene
Eph.1:11 … in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
So this, and other scripture, quoting “all is of God”, is a lie? Gods will will not be done? Our so-called “free will” is more powerfull than Gods?
Jerry.
Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ July 30 2010,12:24) So this, and other scripture, quoting “all is of God”, is a lie?
JerrySo let me see if I understand?
So if a Pedaphile rapes and murders a little girl then that is “of God” since you say “all is of God”?
Is that what you believe?
WJ
Hi WJ.
Hard as it seems to understand, yes, “all is of God”. Who made the “wicked”? Yes, God did, see Proverbs 16:4 …Yahweh has made everything for its own pertinent end, Yea even the wicked for the day of evil.Also, God created evil, see Isaiah 45:7 …Former of light and creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I,Ieue Alueim, made all these things.
Read in Romans 9:20-21 …O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, “Why do you make me thus?”
21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?An explanation of why God does these things? See Romans 11:14-24 … 14 What, then, shall we be declaring? Not that there is injustice with God? May it not be coming to that!
15 For to Moses He is saying, “I shall be merciful to whomever I may be merciful, and I shall be pitying whomever I may be pitying.”
16 Consequently, then, it is not of him who is willing, nor of him who is racing, but of God, the Merciful.
17 For the scripture is saying to Pharaoh that “For this selfsame thing I rouse you up, so that I should be displaying in you My power, and so that My name should be published in the entire earth.”
18 Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening.
19 You will be protesting to me, then, “Why, then, is He still blaming? for who has withstood His intention?”
20 O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, “Why do you make me thus?”
21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?
22 Now if God, wanting to display His indignation and to make His powerful doings known, carries, with much patience, the vessels of indignation, adapted for destruction,
23 it is that He should also be making known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He makes ready before for glory —
24 us, whom He calls also, not only out of the Jews, but out of the nations also.I could go on quoting more verses, but too many at one time leads one to boredom and quits reading.
Let me explain my understanding, God had put Adam and Eve in the “Garden of Eden”, paradise as we would know it. But not a word of thanks was given by them, they knew of nothing else, there was no way they knew of anything different, no reason to be thankfull, they knew no other way. Mankind would be like that today if God changed nothing, we would not praise God for this great blessing, we would not understand any other way.
God wants us to appreciate the great blessings that He will give us. To know this we have to experience “evil” to appreciate “good”. This is why He put the tree of the “knowledge of good and evil” in the garden, and told them 'not to eat of it's fruit'. But it was His (Gods) intention that they eat of it, you see “all is of God”.
This is His reason for doing this to His creation. He wants us to realise what a blessing He as in store for us, His plan is complex, beyond the understanding of all, until He reveals it to us in His time and manner.
He will save “ALL” mankind, He has designed a way of doing this, and He will complete this at the “consummation”, the completed creation …1Cor.15:22-28 … 22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Hope this will explain my understanding, but of course “All is of God”, and He will give us understanding in accord with His Will, different times for different people.
God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 30 2010,12:34) Quote (chosenone @ July 30 2010,12:24) So this, and other scripture, quoting “all is of God”, is a lie?
JerrySo let me see if I understand?
So if a Pedaphile rapes and murders a little girl then that is “of God” since you say “all is of God”?
Is that what you believe?
WJ
Quote (chosenone @ July 30 2010,16:36) Hi WJ.
Hard as it seems to understand, yes, “all is of God”. Who made the “wicked”?
What a disgusting concept!!!So in other words a man can go and do what ever he wants because “all is of God” and it doesn't matter anyway.
What a loose doctrine which would promote rebellion since you can't help it because “God mad me do it”.
Foolishness man made heresy.
Surely God will work all things after the council of his will based on his foreknowledge and power. But God does not cause men to sin or there would be no penalty or judgment or rewards!
WJ
Quote (chosenone @ July 30 2010,16:36) Hi WJ.
Hard as it seems to understand, yes, “all is of God”. Who made the “wicked”? Yes, God did, see Proverbs 16:4 …Yahweh has made everything for its own pertinent end, Yea even the wicked for the day of evil.Also, God created evil, see Isaiah 45:7 …Former of light and creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil, I,Ieue Alueim, made all these things.
Read in Romans 9:20-21 …O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, “Why do you make me thus?”
21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?An explanation of why God does these things? See Romans 11:14-24 … 14 What, then, shall we be declaring? Not that there is injustice with God? May it not be coming to that!
15 For to Moses He is saying, “I shall be merciful to whomever I may be merciful, and I shall be pitying whomever I may be pitying.”
16 Consequently, then, it is not of him who is willing, nor of him who is racing, but of God, the Merciful.
17 For the scripture is saying to Pharaoh that “For this selfsame thing I rouse you up, so that I should be displaying in you My power, and so that My name should be published in the entire earth.”
18 Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening.
19 You will be protesting to me, then, “Why, then, is He still blaming? for who has withstood His intention?”
20 O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, “Why do you make me thus?”
21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?
22 Now if God, wanting to display His indignation and to make His powerful doings known, carries, with much patience, the vessels of indignation, adapted for destruction,
23 it is that He should also be making known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He makes ready before for glory —
24 us, whom He calls also, not only out of the Jews, but out of the nations also.I could go on quoting more verses, but too many at one time leads one to boredom and quits reading.
Let me explain my understanding, God had put Adam and Eve in the “Garden of Eden”, paradise as we would know it. But not a word of thanks was given by them, they knew of nothing else, there was no way they knew of anything different, no reason to be thankfull, they knew no other way. Mankind would be like that today if God changed nothing, we would not praise God for this great blessing, we would not understand any other way.
God wants us to appreciate the great blessings that He will give us. To know this we have to experience “evil” to appreciate “good”. This is why He put the tree of the “knowledge of good and evil” in the garden, and told them 'not to eat of it's fruit'. But it was His (Gods) intention that they eat of it, you see “all is of God”.
This is His reason for doing this to His creation. He wants us to realise what a blessing He as in store for us, His plan is complex, beyond the understanding of all, until He reveals it to us in His time and manner.
He will save “ALL” mankind, He has designed a way of doing this, and He will complete this at the “consummation”, the completed creation …1Cor.15:22-28 … 22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)Hope this will explain my understanding, but of course “All is of God”, and He will give us understanding in accord with His Will, different times for different people.
God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ July 30 2010,16:36) This is why He put the tree of the “knowledge of good and evil” in the garden, and told them 'not to eat of it's fruit'. But it was His (Gods) intention that they eat of it, you see “all is of God”.
So God wanted them to break his commandment and die?So he “tempted” them (through satan since satan is a puppet to his wil also) and then “caused” them to disobey him so they would die and be cursed and driven out from his presence to suffer and ultimately be cast into hell?
Wow. What an evil God you serve!
Surely God can do as he wills for he gives life and takes it. However it is a rare thing for the Lord to violate the will of man and in the few cases he has it was because they were wicked to the point that God brought judement. They were not wicked because God made them that way but because of their rebellious hearts and nature and that they “chose” to do evil and to resist the laws of God.
WJ
WJ.
You're right… My wicked God saves all mankind.Your righteous God condenms some some to “eternal punishment”.
Hope your “free will” will make the right choices.
Jerry.
Chosenone……..As i said before they Just don't get it, they have been prevented from seeing the truth. It is apparent they have no understanding (IN) them or they could easily see these things. They will not answer you Quoted scriptures because they can't , they can only just through out non scriptural ignorant commits. Haven't you notices they never answer you posted scriptures , But just spew out ignorant commits about what you have posted from scripture. They truly profess GOD but Deny the power thereof.
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (chosenone @ July 31 2010,09:51) WJ. You're right… My wicked God saves all mankind.
Jerry.
Hi Chosenone,Why would you make a “Free Will” choice to chose a wicked god?
Psalm 32:9 Be ye not as the horse(Jerry), or as the mule, which have no understanding:
whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.Use your “Free Will” to speak “Truth” instead of the traditions of men!
The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.Matt.15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye(Jerry)
also transgress the commandment of God by your (No FREE WILL) tradition?
For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father(YHVH) and mother(The Church):
and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say,
Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It(The Crucifixion) is a gift,
by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honor not his father or his mother.
Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWJ.
You say…Quote So if a Pedaphile rapes and murders a little girl then that is “of God” since you say “all is of God”? Is that what you believe?
And then you addQuote What a disgusting concept!!! So in other words a man can go and do what ever he wants because “all is of God” and it doesn't matter anyway.
What a loose doctrine which would promote rebellion since you can't help it because “God mad me do it”.
Your statement is self contradictory. No, a man can't do what he wants, if “all is of God”, he can only do what God wants, you don't have “free will”.
Back to your earlier quote…
Quote So if a Pedaphile rapes and murders a little girl then that is “of God” since you say “all is of God”?
Yes, was it not Gods will that His only begotten son was murdered? He, Jesus, was beaten, nailed through His hands and feet to a cross, and left there to die, a torturous cruel death. This was Gods Will, do you think that He (God) sinned by doing this? Was this in your opinion, a sin commited by God?
No! God cannot sin, He uses evil to effect His cause, HE CANNOT SIN. He will save all mankind, His ways are not our ways, at the “consummation” He will be “All in all” (1Cor.15:28). He is “operating ALL in accord with the counsel of His Will” (Eph.1:11). Our so-called 'free will' is non existent, only Gods Will will be done.Jerry.
Chosenone………As i said they Just do not get it brother. They are like the blind leading the blind. It just has not been given them or they could easily see these things. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Hi Gene.
Thanks for your support, much appreciated. Yes, though we must be patient to those not yet being called. Scripture says in Ro.11:32 … For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
Thank God He is in “COMPLETE CONTROL”, All is of God, who is the saviour of all mankind. (1Tim.4:9-11)God Bless, Jerry.
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