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This is just getting silly.
We all agree that we are free to choose. That is what choice is and it is our will where we make these choices.
God judges us on the choices we were given, not the ones we weren't given.Therefore our will is free to choose among the choices before us.
We are responsible for what we choose. Simple as that.
Call it what you like, but we can will to do what we want, or will to align our will with God's will. Ultimately they are the choices the children of God choose to do right and the children of the devil do not choose to do what is right.
No excuses.
Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,10:34) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 18 2010,02:32) Does the fact that people make choices based on REASONS mean anything? If there was total freedom in a choice then there would not be a reason to that choice would there be?
Jodi, we can choose freely between the options that are presented to us. e.g., do I follow the urgings of the flesh, or choose to be led by the Spirit.We can choose either because both are vying for our attention.
We lose the chance to choose freely when there is only one choice and then it is not even a choice by definition.
In the beginning God put 2 trees in the garden. The ability to choose freely was right in the beginning and this is why Adam was so responsible for his choice.
It is why we too are responsible for our choices. There is no excuse.
T8……….You will (ALWAYS) Chose the one that has the GREATEST (INFLUENCE on YOU, not matter what. This is why it says “FOR GREATER IS HE THAT IS (IN) YOU THEN HE THAT IS (IN) THE WORLD You are what is (IN) the WORLD and so is your WILL. And again “For HE (GOD) works in us both to (WILL) and do of (HIS) good pleasure. So it is obvious that GOD is Working (HIS) Will in us. Adam and Eve wanted to exercise their (OWN) Wills and they sin and as a result, seperating themselves from the WILL of GOD and this has been the downfall of man ever sense, man working his Captivated WILL working through His own reasonings . Scripture say it is (NOT) Within a man to direct his paths. His Will is (not) God's Will and it certainly is not a “FREE” WILL either. Jesus understood this and said “Not my will but thy will done”, Now ask yourself why he said that, was it not, because His will was a (INFLUENCED) WILL and that influenced Will had to be brought into captivity , by the will of GOD. There is no such thing as a Will “FREE” of INFLUENCE and therefore there is no such thing as a “FREE” Will not in GOD or MAN , only influenced Wills. The Word “FREE WILL” is an OXYMORON. Its origins is in the (PRIDE) of MAN and not of GOD.T8 , you are also confusing God Giving us (LIBERTY) to exercise Our (captivated) WILL with us having “FREE” Wills. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 18 2010,11:36) T8……….You will (ALWAYS) Chose the one that has the GREATEST (INFLUENCE on YOU, not matter what.
And it is us to choose that which has the greatest influence?Your teaching suggests strongly that people who are condemned have no ability to choose freely because evil and unrighteousness was a stronger influence.
However, something is only as strong as you allow it to be. In of itself, it is not able to overpower except when by your own will you allow it.
T8 ……….Ask a dope addict if that is true of not, no matter how hard they try they are unable to deliever themselves , not matte rhow much they hate being addicted. I personally know this for a (FACT) not that i ever was a dope additic, but i certanilt had a nicotine habit and for a year it tride every thing i could to quits , it was my will to quite and be delivered from this reched habit, But just could not do it , so I gave up and told GOD i would try once more but if i had a desire for them again i would no longer try , but would simply die smoking. As soon as i got up from that prayer I waited for the erg to have another cigarette and never had so much as a desire for one for 12 years. Later i Started smoking again and became addicted again and after 13 years I tried to quit again, but again was unable to so, after trying Patches and gums for a year, i decided to ask GOD again to remove the habit , i told him I would not blame him if he did not do it again for me as he did the first time,but as soon as i got up from that prayer I have had no desire for a cigarette again it has been over 11 year since my last cigarette. Now Why could not MY so-called “FREE” Will have given me the victor if what your are saying is true. T8 there are many many thing people will to be different and they are captivated and can not change their condition. Putting trust in ourselves through our wills is a dangerous position to be in > “Put not you trust in the son of men for in the day they die their thought parish.”And again “who by taking thought can change his hight” If you can't do the smallest of thing why take though of the big things. We need to be like Jesus who came (NOT) to do (HIS) Will but the (WILL) of Him who sent him. IMO
peace and love ………………..gene
T8………You have not answered this , Why did Jesus come to set the captives “FREE” if they already were FREE. What is you thoughts on this.
peace and love…………..gene
When we are saying that men have free will, we are talking of today. I wasn't aware that this debate was about 2000 years ago.
All men are being convicted of sin, righteousness, and judgement today.Men are without excuse because even if they have never heard the gospel, they have the law which is written in their hearts.
There is no excuse for unrighteousness, except that it is sin. Fortunately we have a covenant.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 18 2010,12:28) T8 ……….Ask a dope addict if that is true of not, no matter how hard they try they are unable to deliever themselves , not matte rhow much they hate being addicted. I personally know this for a (FACT) not that i ever was a dope additic, but i certanilt had a nicotine habit and for a year it tride every thing i could to quits , it was my will to quite and be delivered from this reched habit, But just could not do it , so I gave up and told GOD i would try once more but if i had a desire for them again i would no longer try , but would simply die smoking. As soon as i got up from that prayer I waited for the erg to have another cigarette and never had so much as a desire for one for 12 years. Later i Started smoking again and became addicted again and after 13 years I tried to quit again, but again was unable to so, after trying Patches and gums for a year, i decided to ask GOD again to remove the habit , i told him I would not blame him if he did not do it again for me as he did the first time,but as soon as i got up from that prayer I have had no desire for a cigarette again it has been over 11 year since my last cigarette. Now Why could not MY so-called “FREE” Will have given me the victor if what your are saying is true. T8 there are many many thing people will to be different and they are captivated and can not change their condition. Putting trust in ourselves through our wills is a dangerous position to be in > “Put not you trust in the son of men for in the day they die their thought parish.”And again “who by taking thought can change his hight” If you can't do the smallest of thing why take though of the big things. We need to be like Jesus who came (NOT) to do (HIS) Will but the (WILL) of Him who sent him. IMO peace and love ………………..gene
A wonderful example it is brother Gene. What else people need to negate this another myth called 'Free Will'.Love and peace to you
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 18 2010,12:28) T8 ……….Ask a dope addict if that is true of not, no matter how hard they try they are unable to deliever themselves , not matte rhow much they hate being addicted. I personally know this for a (FACT) not that i ever was a dope additic, but i certanilt had a nicotine habit and for a year it tride every thing i could to quits , it was my will to quite and be delivered from this reched habit, But just could not do it , so I gave up and told GOD i would try once more but if i had a desire for them again i would no longer try , but would simply die smoking. As soon as i got up from that prayer I waited for the erg to have another cigarette and never had so much as a desire for one for 12 years. Later i Started smoking again and became addicted again and after 13 years I tried to quit again, but again was unable to so, after trying Patches and gums for a year, i decided to ask GOD again to remove the habit , i told him I would not blame him if he did not do it again for me as he did the first time,but as soon as i got up from that prayer I have had no desire for a cigarette again it has been over 11 year since my last cigarette. Now Why could not MY so-called “FREE” Will have given me the victor if what your are saying is true. T8 there are many many thing people will to be different and they are captivated and can not change their condition. Putting trust in ourselves through our wills is a dangerous position to be in > “Put not you trust in the son of men for in the day they die their thought parish.”And again “who by taking thought can change his hight” If you can't do the smallest of thing why take though of the big things. We need to be like Jesus who came (NOT) to do (HIS) Will but the (WILL) of Him who sent him. IMO peace and love ………………..gene
But Gene, God has set up an alternative to sin. All that is not of faith is sin, so we only need to be faithful.There is always an option. In the place of hate we can love. In the place of legalism, we can exercise grace.
In the place of a destructive habit, God has given us the desire to live. Never underestimate the desire to live.
Whatever wins is not the most powerful, but the one that we allow to influence us.
Take 2 people that are trying to give up smoking. Both desire to smoke, but both desire to live healthy and save the money they spend on cigarettes. Yet one might give up and the other maybe not. What was the difference? The difference is that one of them made the decision from their will to give up and the other decided in their will that they would continue because it was too hard to give up.
Belief is a powerful thing and we choose to believe or not.
The hilarious thing about this debate is that if you are right, then we can't change because we have no free will. So you are wasting your time. It is almost as if you do not believe your own theory by trying to get us to choose what you believe.
And if I am right, then you most likely will not see that we have free will because you believe we don't and therefore you believe that you cannot choose freely on this one.
I think this wraps up this debate. It is going nowhere fast.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 18 2010,12:28) T8 ……….Ask a dope addict if that is true of not, no matter how hard they try they are unable to deliever themselves , not matte rhow much they hate being addicted. peace and love ………………..gene
Hi Gene,So all dope addicts die addicted?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 18 2010,12:30) T8………You have not answered this , Why did Jesus come to set the captives “FREE” if they already were FREE. What is you thoughts on this. peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,What was held captive?
Ed J
Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,16:16) We can't help it Gol, we have no free will to choose otherwise. 
No brother T8 you are repelled to it by using so called free will.T8……..”can a Ethiopian change his Skin or a Leopard His spots”, why did Christ come to set the captives Free if they were already free to change by their so-called Free Will. Trying to throw humor at this as if were senseless in foolish on your Part, and is what all who can not defend their positions do, they can't Logically explain their understandings so they throw insults at it. T8 i have ask for (ONE) Scripture that says we poses a “FREE WILL” (IN) us. again i am not saying we don't have (LIBERTY) to exercise our captivated Will.
Your word make (YOU) your own savior , by you so-called “FREE WILL” (YOU) Chose to save your self by you Choices. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus even told the disciples they did not chose Him , but he chose them. You “Free Will ideology deals God out of the deck and give you credit for all your decision of salvation. If that were the case there would be no need for God to send Jesus would there , we could just simply chose our way to salvation. This question on “FREE WILLS” is far more important then you even begin to imagine, it is at the core of what separated us from GOD.
If Jesus could have willed his way into salvation why did he say not my Will be done but they will be done. Jesus did not rely on His WILL as you seem to do. And your are right it is Faith in GOD, but even that Faith is given and is not a matter of our wills, “FOR GOD GIVEN TO EACH A MEASURE OF FAITH”. Why should he give any measure of Faith if Our so-called “FREE WILLS” could attain to it, who needs GOD for Help. This is a great issue and not a small matter as you portray it T8. It is seriously at the core of religious beliefs and cause many to error. IMO
The question comes down to this are we saved by GOD”S Will or does He have to ask our permission through our “FREE” Wills to save us . And if by some quintessence we Chose GOD and to LOVE Him by our own (NON) influenced Wills , then as absolute “FREE” of GOD'S Powers we give Permission to Him to SAVE US. Can't you see that makes (YOU) in Charge of your salvation and pushes GOD out of the Picture. This is the exact thing Adam and Eve Were doing , wanting to be (FREE:of GOD'S influence and be a “FREE WILLER'S” apart from GOD's Will. They wanted their own Choices to rule by there own Free Wills and as a result left God and started all Humans down a course of destruction , because all have chosen to follow their own captivated Wills working through the OWN DESIRES. Scripture says “IT IS (NOT) WITHIN A MAN TO DIRECT HIS PATHS” GOD must direct and Keep us in the right paths we can not do it on our own. IMO
peace an dlove to you and yours T8………………….gene
Hi Gene,
I was asked to join the “Free Willers Club” discussion with you based on Terraricca's influence.
So out of my “Free will” I decided to join. Aren't you glad I made that “Free Will” choice?God bless
Ed J (Isaiah 54:17)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J………..You decision had nothing to do with your supposed “FREE WILL” but rather with what was going on in you mind and your predisposed posture , You would have gotten involved no matter who said anything, rather they ask you or not. That is because of your predisposition, a combination of Past and present thoughts . You simply chose from what was influencing you the most. Even if you chose to not say anything that also is a decision based on fore thought . Unless your mind really a blank then i would have to agree with you that would be a Will that was indeed “FREE” of thought that is.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2010,07:26) Ed J………..You decision had nothing to do with your supposed “FREE WILL” but rather with what was going on in you mind and your predisposed posture , You would have gotten involved no matter who said anything, rather they ask you or not. That is because of your predisposition, a combination of Past and present thoughts . You simply chose from what was influencing you the most. Even if you chose to not say anything that also is a decision based on fore thought . Unless your mind really a blank then i would have to agree with you that would be a Will that was indeed “FREE” of thought that is. peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
genehow could Jesus ask from a person he just broath to health;Jn 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2010,03:14) T8……..”can a Ethiopian change his Skin or a Leopard His spots”, why did Christ come to set the captives Free if they were already free to change by their so-called Free Will. Trying to throw humor at this as if were senseless in foolish on your Part, and is what all who can not defend their positions do, they can't Logically explain their understandings so they throw insults at it. T8 i have ask for (ONE) Scripture that says we poses a “FREE WILL” (IN) us. again i am not saying we don't have (LIBERTY) to exercise our captivated Will.
Obviously Gene, I cannot change or utilize free will to believe your message. So trying to convert me shows that you have little faith in your own doctrine.
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