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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 15 2010,01:39) ED J……. You cant even understand what you Just quoted ED J, (SO a man thinks so he (IS)> Where does it say anything about Him having a “FREE WILL” There, a Man thinks according to His knowledge just as you do. You accuse me of what you yourself are doing, and you have failed show us (JUST ONE SCRIPTURE) that say there is a “FREE WILL” (IN) Man or even GOD FOR that Matter. Your lie about you producing proof is nothing but a LIE, From YOU own deluded and CAPTIVATED WILL> . And what Spirit are you from, seeing you set out to be a (ACCUSER) of others and present yourself as someone who (OPINIONS) are more valuable then others here. You are welcome to have Opinions but others are just as welcome to have there also. Your are not one ounce more creditable then others > Not matter how many numbers you think mean something which in fact mean nothing. IMO
Hi Gene,This Post isn't even worth my (Free Will) commenting on, it comes from 'your Captive Will'.
(Previously discussed ^^^ Three Posts Up ^^^)However, I Posted to you on another thread
that you have yet to respond to…Click Here. <– Sixth Post from the TopQuote (gollamudi @ June 15 2010,15:44) Quote (Ed J @ June 15 2010,00:00) Quote (gollamudi @ June 14 2010,23:02) This is where the fact lies brother T8, Even Paul said it right in Romans 7 he could not do what he wanted to do but did what did not want to do. what does that mean?
Please think over
Adam
Hi Adam,That's easy to answer, fat people don't want to eat fattening foods and be fat.
But they eat and eat and eat, and then feel horrible that there FAT FAT FAT.
The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak! Do you now understand; Adam?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi brother Ed J,
That shows you are led by your flesh which means influenced will but no “Free Will”. Hence the matter ends here.
Gollthe same way Satan became the adversary of God ,you and those who believe in predetermination find your selves not accepting God s reward trough Jesus Christ.
your choice.Pierre
Terraricca………Show us (one) scripture that says a BEING Named SATAN (BECAME) AND ADVERSARY OF GOD” or are you again forcing the text to meet you dogmas and teachings.
peace and love…………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2010,15:55) Terraricca………Show us (one) scripture that says a BEING Named SATAN (BECAME) AND ADVERSARY OF GOD” or are you again forcing the text to meet you dogmas and teachings. peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Well since you asked… (Matt.7:7 2Tm.2:13)
In case you didn't know the devil is satan! (Rev.12:9)
1Peter 5:8: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the
devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Ex:23:22: But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak;
then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J……….So can we say PETER was SATAN, Jesus said He was. “GET BEHIND ME SATAN”. or what about this ” HAVE I NOT CHOSEN ALL OF YOU AND ONE OF YOU (IS) A DEVIL. So who is these elusive (BEING) going around jumping in and out of People? Was it Peter , Judas , or the {Pharisees} Jesus seemed to think it was them right? All adversarial Spirits (intellect) in people who are going against GOD or his Work, are going around devouring who they may. That is Man Kind HIMSELF, not some elusive (creature) of some kind. While the (INTELLECT) in the person is unseen it still is the person Himself not some (being) , but intellect or Spirit working (IN) him.
Jesus said “If you (being) Evil (existing in an evil state) know how to give good gift to your childern how much more will Your Heavenly Father Give them of the Spirit that ask”. Man kind (exists ) in an Evil State He is the SATAN or DEVILS, not some elusive CREATURE of SOME KIND.,. The wickedness in High places is MAN himself. IMO
Just look at all the blood shed and crimes and Evils in this World and ask yourself whose is doing it and responsible for it? Who is the sinner an elusive being or Man himself? It all boils down to Good and Evil and Man exists in an (Evil) State as testified by Jesus himself.
peace and love………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2010,02:21) ED J……….So can we say PETER was SATAN, Jesus said He was. “GET BEHIND ME SATAN”. or what about this ” HAVE I NOT CHOSEN ALL OF YOU AND ONE OF YOU (IS) A DEVIL. So who is these elusive (BEING) going around jumping in and out of People? Was it Peter , Judas , or the {Pharisees} Jesus seemed to think it was them right? All adversarial Spirits (intellect) in people who are going against GOD or his Work, are going around devouring who they may. That is Man Kind HIMSELF, not some elusive (creature) of some kind. While the (INTELLECT) in the person is unseen it still is the person Himself not some (being) , but intellect or Spirit working (IN) him. Jesus said “If you (being) Evil (existing in an evil state) know how to give good gift to your childern how much more will Your Heavenly Father Give them of the Spirit that ask”. Man kind (exists ) in an Evil State He is the SATAN or DEVILS, not some elusive CREATURE of SOME KIND.,. The wickedness in High places is MAN himself. IMO
Just look at all the blood shed and crimes and Evils in this World and ask yourself whose is doing it and responsible for it? Who is the sinner an elusive being or Man himself? It all boils down to Good and Evil and Man exists in an (Evil) State as testified by Jesus himself.
peace and love………………………gene
Hi Gene,Rev.12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven,
and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman
which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.So by the logic of your intellect are we to believe the stars of heaven took turns
becoming adversarial to God, but never more than one third of them at one time;
seems this type of logic stands on faulty ground. (Matt. 7:26-27 / Heb. 12:26-27)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2010,02:21) ED J……….So can we say PETER was SATAN, Jesus said He was. “GET BEHIND ME SATAN”. or what about this ” HAVE I NOT CHOSEN ALL OF YOU AND ONE OF YOU (IS) A DEVIL. So who is these elusive (BEING) going around jumping in and out of People? Was it Peter , Judas , or the {Pharisees} Jesus seemed to think it was them right? All adversarial Spirits (intellect) in people who are going against GOD or his Work, are going around devouring who they may. That is Man Kind HIMSELF, not some elusive (creature) of some kind. While the (INTELLECT) in the person is unseen it still is the person Himself not some (being) , but intellect or Spirit working (IN) him. Jesus said “If you (being) Evil (existing in an evil state) know how to give good gift to your childern how much more will Your Heavenly Father Give them of the Spirit that ask”. Man kind (exists ) in an Evil State He is the SATAN or DEVILS, not some elusive CREATURE of SOME KIND.,. The wickedness in High places is MAN himself. IMO
Just look at all the blood shed and crimes and Evils in this World and ask yourself whose is doing it and responsible for it? Who is the sinner an elusive being or Man himself? It all boils down to Good and Evil and Man exists in an (Evil) State as testified by Jesus himself.
peace and love………………………gene
GENEthe first Satan was or appears in genesis with Adam ,and this is a angel who as corrupted himself,
all the others are only expressions related to that first adversary to God.
Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
WEN THE ANGELS CAME BEFORE GOD AND SATAN ALSO CAME IS THIS NOT SHOWS HE ALSO WAS A ANGEL?IF GOD COULD TALK TO HIM HE MUST HAVE BEEN A BEING NO?
Mt 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! IF CHRIST CAN TALK TO HIM AND SEND HIM ON HIS WAY DOES THIS NOT MEANS THAT HE IS A BEING?
Mk 8:33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”IN THIS CASE JESUS REFFERS TO SATAN AS THE THOUGHT IN PETER S MIND ,NOT THE BEING.Ac 5:3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? IN THIS VERSE WE CAN SEE HOW SATAN CAN ENTER IN OUR THOUGHTS AND DIRECT OUR ACTION IF WE DO NOT LOOK OUT FOR GOD S WAY.
Ac 26:18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
HERE WE SEE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO SEEK GODS PROTECTION BY LEARNING HIS WISDOM AND WILL.Pierre
Satan mentioned in the NT is different from OT. Christianity made Satan another god besides God and they give more credit to him than God.
Adam…………Amen to that brother. They have created another God by turning him into a real (BEING) a metaphysical idol. Taught by MYSTERY RELIGION Just another Idolatrous teaching from the apostate Churches.IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Terraricca…………Was not it a thought in Ananis's (mind) that caused him to sin against the Holy Spirit. That was not another person or being , but his own thoughts his (OWN) reasoning that cause this to happen. If it were someone else doing it in him , why kill him them, after all it would not have been his fault right? Kill the one doing it not him , why should he have to pay for what someone else is doing?. This same thing applies to Peter, why did Jesus rebuke Peter instead of the one causing Him to do it?.
Fact is Man is the Satans and Devils, they from their (EVIL) Hearts are the cause of their problems , trying to blame it on a elusive unseen being is only a cop-out. The devil made me do it they say, when in fact they are the Devils. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,08:44) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 02 2010,08:30) Can you answer the following? 1) Where do people extract their choices?
2) Are choices not made out of prior influences and experiences?
3) Choices are DEPENDENT upon factors, many of which the individual has no control over.
3) A) So how does that make a persons choice free?4) Would you say that a person's choice of what they are going to eat for dinner is completely and utterly free, or is it dependent upon several different factors?
Hi Jodi,OK; if you seek agreement!
1) Many places.
2) Sometimes.
3) Name some?
3) A) Explain what you mean?4) A person can hardly choose some kind of food they never heard of before, even though it may be available to them.
So they would not be “Free” to make a choice that they were unaware of.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You answer to my food question shows that a major barrier exists in your thinking on this topic IMO.Do we choose what taste good to us, or do our taste buds decide for us? Am I FREE to like whatever kind of food I want? NO!! My daughter is very picky and it's NOT just because of her taste buds, but also because of her sense of smell and her sense of touch with the texture of foods. She DIDN’T CHOOSE any of those factors, but they certainly MAKE a DIFFERENCE in HOW she MAKES her CHOICE in what she eats. This is only the beginning, there is also your point, where people can't choose foods they have never heard of. Neither can they choose what isn't available to them, or what they can’t afford. Plus one might consider what does or doesn't sound good to eat based on recent consumption.
I have not seen you discuss at all the SOURCE to which people derive their choices from and the factors that exist therein.
At the time of conception not only is the sex of the human already determined, and as well eye color, but also personality traits have BEEN DETERMINED. Which means a person’s disposition given at conception, affects EVERY CHOICE the individual will ever make.
So tell me Ed J, how in the world does that make a person’s choice FREE, if a major factor in what determines a person choices was established for them at birth within their DNA?
Can you ponder on that ED J?…People don't DECIDE their OWN personality, of which greatly factors into an individual’s choices.
Does the fact that people make choices based on REASONS mean anything? If there was total freedom in a choice then there would not be a reason to that choice would there be?
Quote (Ed J @ June 16 2010,16:50) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2010,15:55) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 17 2010,02:21) Terraricca………Show us (one) scripture that says a BEING Named SATAN (BECAME) AND ADVERSARY OF GOD” or are you again forcing the text to meet you dogmas and teachings. peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,Well since you asked… (Matt.7:7 2Tm.2:13)
In case you didn't know the devil is satan! (Rev.12:9)
1Peter 5:8: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil,
as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Ex:23:22: But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak;
then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J……….So can we say PETER was SATAN, Jesus said He was. “GET BEHIND ME SATAN”. or what about this ” HAVE I NOT CHOSEN ALL OF YOU AND ONE OF YOU (IS) A DEVIL. So who is these elusive (BEING) going around jumping in and out of People? Was it Peter , Judas , or the {Pharisees} Jesus seemed to think it was them right? All adversarial Spirits (intellect) in people who are going against GOD or his Work, are going around devouring who they may. That is Man Kind HIMSELF, not some elusive (creature) of some kind. While the (INTELLECT) in the person is unseen it still is the person Himself not some (being) , but intellect or Spirit working (IN) him.
Jesus said “If you (being) Evil (existing in an evil state) know how to give good gift to your childern how much more will Your Heavenly Father Give them of the Spirit that ask”. Man kind (exists ) in an Evil State He is the SATAN or DEVILS, not some elusive CREATURE of SOME KIND.,. The wickedness in High places is MAN himself. IMO
Just look at all the blood shed and crimes and Evils in this World and ask yourself whose is doing it and responsible for it? Who is the sinner an elusive being or Man himself? It all boils down to Good and Evil and Man exists in an (Evil) State as testified by Jesus himself.
peace and love………………………gene
Hi Gene,
Seeing your own reflection again? (Psalm 18:25-27)
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 16 2010,16:22)
ED J……..anyone can quote scripture to twist or alter what is being discussed, this is he oldest game in history. If you can't make sense of something just alter the focus as i see you have shown here your are a master at.
IMOpeace and love…………….gene
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 18 2010,02:05) You answer to my food question shows that a major barrier exists in your thinking on this topic IMO.
Are you seeing your reflection as well? (Psalm 18:25-27)Quote (Ed J @ June 14 2010,16:14) Hi Jodi, <– Previously I had Hi Gene here. Right here… But you will probably reject this due to your (NOT Free) captive will!
1 Cor.9:17-19 For if I do this thing “willingly”, I have a reward: but if against my will,
a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. What is my reward then? Verily that,
when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power
in the gospel. For though I be “free” from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that
I might gain the more. (Mark 10:42-45)God bless
Ed J (Eccl.9:16)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Jodi Lee @ June 18 2010,02:05) Do we choose what taste good to us, or do our taste buds decide for us? Am I FREE to like whatever kind of food I want? NO!! My daughter is very picky and it's NOT just because of her taste buds, but also because of her sense of smell and her sense of touch with the texture of foods. She DIDN’T CHOOSE any of those factors, but they certainly MAKE a DIFFERENCE in HOW she MAKES her CHOICE in what she eats. This is only the beginning, there is also your point, where people can't choose foods they have never heard of. Neither can they choose what isn't available to them, or what they can’t afford. Plus one might consider what does or doesn't sound good to eat based on recent consumption. I have not seen you discuss at all the SOURCE to which people derive their choices from and the factors that exist therein.
At the time of conception not only is the sex of the human already determined, and as well eye color, but also personality traits have BEEN DETERMINED. Which means a person’s disposition given at conception, affects EVERY CHOICE the individual will ever make.
So tell me Ed J, how in the world does that make a person’s choice FREE, if a major factor in what determines a person choices was established for them at birth within their DNA?
Can you ponder on that ED J?…People don't DECIDE their OWN personality, of which greatly factors into an individual’s choices.
Hi Jodi,Are you “free to choose” what sports to pursue?
NO; You must choose the ones that influence you the most! <– Your type of logic here is FAULTY!Neither have I.
Conjecture.
Your question calls for speculation based on assumptions.
Conjecture.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Jodi Lee @ June 18 2010,02:32) Does the fact that people make choices based on REASONS mean anything? If there was total freedom in a choice then there would not be a reason to that choice would there be?
do you understand what you are saying ??Quote (gollamudi @ June 17 2010,16:03) Satan mentioned in the NT is different from OT. Christianity made Satan another god besides God and they give more credit to him than God.
Goll
if what you say is true then God of the OT is not the same in the NT ,and Christ would be lying,and if i have to pick between you and Christ words you guested it, i pick Christ any time.
Pierre
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 18 2010,02:32) Does the fact that people make choices based on REASONS mean anything? If there was total freedom in a choice then there would not be a reason to that choice would there be?
Jodi, we can choose freely between the options that are presented to us. e.g., do I follow the urgings of the flesh, or choose to be led by the Spirit.We can choose either because both are vying for our attention.
We lose the chance to choose freely when there is only one choice and then it is not even a choice by definition.
In the beginning God put 2 trees in the garden. The ability to choose freely was right in the beginning and this is why Adam was so responsible for his choice.
It is why we too are responsible for our choices. There is no excuse.
To those who believe there is no free will, why are you even bothering to try and make people choose to believe your view. Can you see the irony?
JA……….You keep going back to the idea we can Make a Choice “FREELY” and you are reckoning that Choice is therefore a “FREE” Choice. Fact is (NO) Choice is ever “FREE” Because ( Your uses Logic and information drawn from Past (EXPERIENCES) and these make you decision for you. WE have (captivated) WILLS, not “FREE” Wills (IN) US. don't mix up the idea we are given (LIBERTY) to exercise our (CAPTIVATED) Wills with meaning we (POSES) a WILL, that is FREE (IN) US. This is what it appears you and others are doing. This is why it say Christ came to set the captives (FREE), ask yourself, Why would he have to do that, if they were already “FREE” of influences. Think about it brother. I believe you are sharp enough to understand this JA. Remember we are (NOT) question that fact we are given (LIBERTY) to Exercise our WILL.
peace and love to you and yours………….Gene
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