Forgiven through Christ

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  • #869897
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hell All,

    Popular belief amongst Christians is that we are saved through God sending His Son to earth to be temporarily made into an inferior being, a man, where we are then freed from sin and the penalty thereof of death by his death. One just has to repent of their sins and believe in this and they are rewarded with eternal life.

    I would argue that those who believe along the lines of the above, end up rendering the worth of many scriptures as trivial. Their good news is about how amazing it is that the Son loved us so much that he was willing to become a lowly man for the purpose to save us through his death.   

    A question I have for all,  

    Explain why God would forgive all the world’s sins through the death of His Son?

    #869898
    Jodi
    Participant

    To rephrase the question that I ask,

    Why would God forgive all the world’s sins through His Son Jesus Christ?

     

    #869902
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi……..Know one seems to be able to answer your  question, I would like to hear their answers also Jodi.

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

    #869903
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jesus was the only one worthy for the task. He was the perfect, unblemished “lamb” for the sacrifice. No one else was suitable.

    Rev 5

    1I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.2And I saw a strong angel proclaimingwith a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to break its seals?” 3And no one in heaven or on the earth or underthe earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4Then I began to weep greatlybecause no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5And one of the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to be able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

    6And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, havingseven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who saton the throne. 8When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they *sang a new song, saying,

    “Worthy are You to take the scroll and to break its seals; for You were slaughtered, and You purchased people for God with Your blood from every tribe, language, people, and nation. 10

    You have made them into a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

    Angels Exalt the Lamb

    11Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12sayingwith a loud voice,

    “Worthy is the Lamb that was slaughtered to receive power, wealth, wisdom, might, honor, glory, and blessing.” 13And I heard every created thing which is in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, or on the sea, and all the things in them, saying,

    “To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.”14And the four living creatures were saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

    #869904
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jesus was the only one worthy for the task. He was the perfect, unblemished “lamb” for the sacrifice. No one else was suitable.

    Rev 5

    1I saw in the right hand of Him who saton the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.2And I saw a strong angel proclaimingwith a loud voice, “Who is worthy to openthe scroll and to break its seals?” 3And no one in heaven or on the earth or underthe earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4Then I began to weep greatlybecause no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5And oneof the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcomeso as to be able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

    6And I saw between<mg1722, 3319=””> the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, havingseven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into allthe earth. 7And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who saton the throne. 8When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four<mg1501, 5064=””> elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they *sang a new song, saying, </mg1501,></mg1722,>

    “Worthy are You to take the scrolland to break its seals; for You were slaughtered, and You purchased people for God with Your blood from every tribe, language, people, and nation. 10

    You have made them into a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

    Angels Exalt the Lamb

    11Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12sayingwith a loud voice,

    “Worthy is the Lamb that was slaughtered to receive power, wealth, wisdom, might, honor, glory, and blessing.” 13And I heard every created thing which is in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, or on the sea, and all the things in them, saying,

    “To Him who sits on the throneand to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.”14And the four living creatureswere saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

    #869905
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jesus was the only one worthy for the task. He was the perfect, unblemished “lamb” for the sacrifice. No one else was suitable.

     

    Rev 5

    1I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.2And I saw a strong angel proclaimingwith a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to break its seals?” 3And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5And one of the elders said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to be able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

    6And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who saton the throne. 8When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they *sang a new song, saying,

    “Worthy are You to take the scroll and to break its seals; for You were slaughtered, and You purchased people for God with Your blood from every tribe, language, people, and nation. 10

    You have made them into a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

    11Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12sayingwith a loud voice,

    “Worthy is the Lamb that was slaughtered to receive power, wealth, wisdom, might, honor, glory, and blessing.” 13And I heard every created thing which is in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, or on the sea, and all the things in them, saying,

    “To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.”14And the four living creatures were saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

    #869906
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Your post doesn’t actually answer my question though my dear.

    Yes, only Jesus Christ could be the sacrificial Lamb. No other could die and pay our debt but he.

    But WHY does God forgive all the worlds sins through Jesus Christ by him going to the cross?

    How does it makes sense that we would be forgiven because of that? 

    Why did God decide that through CHRIST and his death there could be a reconciliation?

     

     

     

    #869907
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    Before I repond, I would like to ask if you have gotten my private message to you? And if so, could you please respond to it? Thanks.

    #869908
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @Jodi

    A question I have for all,

    Explain why God would forgive all the world’s sins through the death of His Son?

    Because God said so!

    Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    #869909
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Sorry I didn’t notice your private message so I will take a look at that 🙂

    #869911
    Jodi
    Participant

    I just realized I said Hell All, forgetting the “0”!

    #869915
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Danny,

    Well your response, “because God said so”, is about what I expected to hear.

    No further thought needed, as to why in the world our sins would possibly be able to be forgive because a spirit son was made flesh to then die, we just need to know God said so and that’s enough.

    Are you really saying, that to your understanding God didn’t give us any explanation, that there are no scriptures on the subject, so therefore one can only say “because God said so” ??

     

    #869916
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    You asked:

    Why would God forgive all the world’s sins through His Son Jesus Christ?

    He offers forgiveness to the whole world through His Son Jesus Christ because of the Father’s loving kindness and great mercy, not willing that all would perish.

    I hope that answers your question.

    #869917
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @Jodi

    we just need to know God said so and that’s enough.

    That’s right. Just believe Romans 5:10
    “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

    #869918
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    You have explained that God forgives us out of His love and mercy, which of course is true, but that still doesn’t actually explain why specifically that forgiveness came through Jesus Christ going to the cross.

    Let’s say we were forgiven instead by some other event, the forgiveness out of His love and mercy would still exist within that other even right? So your explanation doesn’t actually get to the heart of my question, as it’s specific to the actual event that God rendered He could forgive us of our sins by.

    I guess I might ask as well ask, given your response,

    Why does their need to be an event in the first place in order for God to bring forgiveness? If He loves us and has mercy for us why is any event even necessary?

    #869919
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    There needed to be “an event” because God is not only loving and merciful but is also just and gave mankind a fine to pay, if you will, for our sin. No one could pay their fine, so since the fine had to be paid through the shedding of blood (as per the Father’s plan), the Father sent His Son to take on flesh (which is how the pre-existent Son could shed blood), prove His perfect and willing obedience, even unto a cruel death of the cross. The bloodshed of the innocent Son who took on the sins of the world, paid the fine that the Father required for the atonement to be possible. The Son became our righteousness and is called YHVH our Righteousness.

    #869921
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Danny,

    YOU:

    That’s right. Just believe Romans 5:10
    “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

    ME: 

    But IGNORE His WORD prior and afterward in Romans 5 as well as elsewhere???? 

    Danny, your approach I find truly interesting. This is what I am seeing out of you, IGNORE MUCH of God’s WORD and teach that God is not one to provide meaning or understanding but rather He dictates that we live off of BLIND FAITH.

    Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore, as BY ONE MAN sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is BY ONE MAN, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    ONE MAN who was disobedient got us in to this mess, and God’s WORD from the beginning was that by ONE man’s obedience also we would get out of it.

    ONLY ONE MAN was anointed with the Spirit not by measure where it came to dwell within his living body, where at that moment God called him His beloved Son. Only ONE MAN upon the fullness of the Spirit coming to dwell within him was SENT out into the world to be our savior.

    THIS IS NOT ALL that we are to JUST BELIEVE there is much more from many of scripture!!

    #869922
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi To all,

     

    Thé Lord give me thèse versés To answer partialy thé question of JODI

     

    Christ bore our sins in his body on the tree; he was made sin for us, that we might become in him the righteousness of God by faith.

    Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground, it cannot bear fruit.

    Who believed what was announced to us? Who has recognized the arm of the Lord?

    53: 2 He rose up before him like a weak plant, like a shoot coming out of dry ground; He had neither beauty nor luster to catch our eyes, And his appearance had nothing to please us.

    53: 3 Despised and forsaken by men, Man of sorrows and accustomed to suffering, Like one whose face is turned away, We have despised him, we have no regard for him.

    53: 4 Yet it was our sufferings that he bore; it was our pains that he took charge; And we considered him punished, Stricken by God, and humiliated.

    53: 5 But he was wounded for our sins, Broken for our iniquities; 

    The punishment that gives us peace fell on him, and by his stripes we are healed.

    53: 6 We all went astray like sheep, each one going his own way; And the LORD has laid down upon him the iniquity of us all.

    53: 7 He was mistreated and oppressed, And he did not open his mouth, Like a lamb which is brought to the slaughter, Like a sheep mute before those who shear it; He did not open his mouth.

    53: 8 He was taken up by anguish and chastisement; And of those of his generation, who believed that he was cut off from the land of the living and slain for the sins of my people?

    53: 9 His tomb was set among the wicked, His tomb with the rich, though he had not done violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.

    53:10 It pleased the Lord to break him with suffering … After having given up his life as a sacrifice for sin, He will see a seed and will prolong his days; And the work of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

    53:11 Because of the work of his soul he will satisfy his eyes; By his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many men, and he will bear their iniquities.

    53:12 Therefore I will give him his portion with the great ones; He will divide the spoil with the mighty, because he himself has given over to death, and is made among evildoers, because he has borne the sins of many men, and that he interceded for the guilty. 

     

    #869923
    Jodi
    Participant

    To All,

    Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Knowing the above, is a good starting point to understanding WHY ON EARTH God would forgive all sins through the death of the anointed Jesus.

    #869925
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Thanks so much for joining the thread and providing a chapter that does indeed bring forth great understanding to my question.

    I will post soon some other verses to apply to that chapter as well as to Romans 5, and I look forward to your response.

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