For Wakeup

Blocked

Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 10 2012,11:50)

Hey Mike

You have to learn to ignore Nick, he's the same as before, annoying.

Georg

You are right, Georg. I shouldn't let someone else have control of my emotions like that.

Shame on me for losing my temper. I apologize to all.

February 10, 2012 at 10:07 pm#277005

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2012,14:26)

Hi T,
For us there is one God, The FATHER and one Lord Jesus Christ..
1Cor8

agreed

February 10, 2012 at 11:27 pm#277022

kerwin

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2012,22:12)

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Wakeup, did the sentient PERSON Jesus (also known as “The Word”) say that HE had glory alongside his God before the world began?

Mike,

Taking your reasoning and applying it to Exodus 32:13 you come to the conclusion that the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel existed when God made the promise to their forefathers.

Exodus 32:13

King James Version (KJV)

13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

The name Jesus was to inherit was prepared for him before time because God foreknew that he would inherit it.

February 11, 2012 at 2:24 am#277043

Blocked

Hi Kerwin,

There is a reason that Jesus is not only the Branch of David, but also the Root.

Matthew 22
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Jesus was teaching something here that some of us understand, and others don't. The Pharisees seemingly knew that it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open their mouths and remove all doubt.

Non-preexisters haven't yet learned this, because they would rather argue with Jesus himself.

February 11, 2012 at 2:26 am#277044

Blocked

Was anyone going to disagree with the three grammatically correct possibilities of translating John 1:1c? (Top post on page 6)

I'll move forward with that point tomorrow.

February 11, 2012 at 6:49 am#277087

Participant

Page 1, Wakeup,

If I read your dissertation right, I believe you have it pretty close. It was God's Word and God became flesh and dwelt among us. reconciling the world to Himself.

Marlin

February 11, 2012 at 7:12 am#277089

NickHassan

Participant

HiM,
Don't forget the blessed vessel of Jesus.

February 11, 2012 at 7:35 am#277096

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 11 2012,16:49)

Page 1, Wakeup,

If I read your dissertation right, I believe you have it pretty close. It was God's Word and God became flesh and dwelt among us. reconciling the world to Himself.

Marlin

Marlin1.

BUT GOD LEFT EARTH, HE HAS GONE BACK TO HEAVEN AT THE CRUCIFIXION.

WHO IS THAT MAN HANGING ON THE CROSS??
He himself gave up the ghost.??

February 11, 2012 at 2:05 pm#277113

Blocked

From the first post on page 6 of this thread, we all saw that there are three possibilities of translating John 1:1 c.

Now, with the help of human logic (for Nick) and the expertise of the 25 TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes, we'll eliminate one of those three possibilities.

From NETNotes:
The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)……….

I hope that all of you will really let this common sense sink in deeply. God Almighty Himself could never sensibly be said to have been WITH God Almighty Himself.

John 1:1 speaks of TWO persons, one of whom was WITH the other. Rememeber that this common sense is pointed out by 25 TRINITARIAN scholars, who would love nothing more than to be able to say the Word was the person of God. But they can't, because the person of God simply cannot be WITH the person of God.

Disagreements?

February 11, 2012 at 9:36 pm#277272

Participant

Page 2

Quote

Hope you don't mind if i join in for a bit, i think i might be able to help interpret what both Journey and Wakeup are saying…or at least, attempt to with my understanding?

God created the Man Jesus by His spoken Word.
Jesus never existed before until this moment…not YET..
And this Man was created with His own soul just like us.
And when He was created, God put an essence of His word, which is spirit, within Jesus, to grow along with His own soul.
And that word was mixing with Jesus' own soul, grafting…

and like a graft of two species of plant, there is a point where the grafting can be reversed, and a point where the reversing is impossible.

Now, that essence was growing within Jesus, that other spirit, so Jesus increased in spirit and wisdom as He aged, learning from that spirit within Him.
And that essence had no limit to “its” growth within Him, unlike the “cap” the rest of us get…the measure we get.
And when Jesus bore the sins of the world on the cross,
that word was removed from within Him.
For the grafting was not yet completed..and that word went back to God.

And Jesus cried out when this word departed from Him, cried out from His own soul now bereft of that word which was in Him from birth. That word that had direct access to the Father, that came from within the Father.

And when His Father raised Him from the dead,
that word was reunited with Jesus,
and it was at this point that God completed the grafting process of binding that word with Jesus' own soul that was risen.
Being born again.

And now that that word was bound with Jesus' soul, a permanent binding took place of the word and that mans soul, by the hand/doing of the Father.

and since the two became one, the word, now with added “DNA”, that word can now be considered a Son, for that word now has added “DNA” making “it” unique from what “it” was before.

At this point, now imagine a loop…

Because now that Jesus became one with that word, and since the two are now one, that word at this point, is no longer just that pure word that came from out of the Father.
And Jesus' soul is no longer just Jesus' soul.
For the two are now one.
The spirit of the Father IN Jesus, and since that spirit came from within God, as did Jesus' soul, Jesus too is IN the Father.
For that is where all things came from anyway.
And this is why God is IN us too. And we IN Him.

Which means, since they are now one, everything that that word did, even before the man Jesus was created, Jesus did too…
because the two are now one…

and everything that Jesus did, the word did too..

So now we have a loop, a loop which spins both forward and reverse throughout “time”.

Devolution,

That was one of the best explanations of this I have ever read. So very simple a child could understand it. Right under the wise and learned. If only people could think outside the box, they would see this for the truth it is.

God Bless
Marlin

February 11, 2012 at 10:21 pm#277280

Participant

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 12 2012,14:36)

Page 2

Quote

Hope you don't mind if i join in for a bit, i think i might be able to help interpret what both Journey and Wakeup are saying…or at least, attempt to with my understanding?

and like a graft of two species of plant, there is a point where the grafting can be reversed, and a point where the reversing is impossible.

And now that that word was bound with Jesus' soul, a permanent binding took place of the word and that mans soul, by the hand/doing of the Father.

and since the two became one, the word, now with added “DNA”, that word can now be considered a Son, for that word now has added “DNA” making “it” unique from what “it” was before.

At this point, now imagine a loop…

Which means, since they are now one, everything that that word did, even before the man Jesus was created, Jesus did too…
because the two are now one…

and everything that Jesus did, the word did too..

So now we have a loop, a loop which spins both forward and reverse throughout “time”.

Devolution,

God Bless
Marlin

this is an interpretation of the believe that Christ was born an man ,but the wording says Christ was Created at the time of his conception,but God stopped creating on the earth after he finish and rested on the seventh day,so God lied ??

why would John talk about Gods word (speaking) in John1;1
WHAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT HIS SPOOKING WORD DID NOT GOD MAKE IT CLEAR IN THE OLD TESTAMENT WHAT HIS WORDS WERE ? DID HE NOT SAY TO FOLLOW HIS WORDS WEN HE GIVE HIS SPOKEN WORD TO MOSES ?OR DO WE HAVE TO TROW IT IN TO THE FIRE PIT AND FORGET IT

I hope not.

wen Christ came did he not came to fulfill the words of his father ? yes he did say that ,why now would John speak about the words of Moses ? we are not going backward but forward are we

the apostles have receive from Christ the knowledge that he came from above according to the spoken words of God his father that was written many century's earlier,this is the spiritual understanding of scriptures ,
this is also what Paul understood wen he ad written his letter to the Colossians

Col 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 1:11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
Col 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Now in ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

does any one has seen a WORD become flesh ?? as any one seen a WORD dwelling among men ?? as any one seen a WORD glory ?? ans then what it says ;what kind of glory was it that that WORD processed ?

and it is only ONE WORD that it is talked about and it came ; who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.;SO NOT ONLY WAS IT ONE WORD BUT THAT ONE WORD CAME FROM ABOVE AND IT COULD WALK FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH

Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”

Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the o
ne I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”

NOW DID JOHN TALKS ABOUT A WORD ? OR DID HE TALKED ABOUT JESUS CHRIST “THE WORD OF GOD” ?

if you do please show us you scriptures that able you to understand it .

Pierre

February 12, 2012 at 2:17 am#277333

Participant

Page 7,

Quote

And if we play that game, where will it leave us? We will have Nick trying to pass unscriptural things as truth, saying, “You must be guided by the spirit to understand it”.

We will have you and I saying the same thing to prove the OPPOSITE of what Nick believes.

We will have the Trinitarians saying, “I know it doesn't make sense to the carnal mind, you must have it revealed to you by spirit.”

Everyone will be disagreeing, but instead of using the mind God gave us to read, understand, and teach what the scriptures actually say, we will become a group of people standing around saying, “You're wrong, because the spirit told ME this”. And the other will say, “YOU'RE wrong, because the spirit told ME something else”.

In my experience, the only people who ever say, “You must have it revealed to you by spirit” are people whose doctrines aren't taught in the scriptures.

So then we have the truth according to MikeB.

JOHN 6:63 † It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Our brains will never understand the truth without God's Spirit in US.

The religious leaders of Jesus day new the bible better then any of us, don't you get it. Flesh and Blood will never receive the kingdom of heaven. UNLESS you are born again by the SPIRIT, YOU WILL BE DECEIVED, PERIOD…………..

Marlin

February 12, 2012 at 2:27 am#277337

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 07 2012,23:48)

And when He was created, God put an essence of His word, which is spirit, within Jesus, to grow along with His own soul.

Hi Devolution,

Do you agree then, that the “HolySpirit” is “The Word” of God?

the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)

The Word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28)

1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 12, 2012 at 3:49 am#277357

Participant

Pierre,

Quote

NOW DID JOHN TALKS ABOUT A WORD ? OR DID HE TALKED ABOUT JESUS CHRIST “THE WORD OF GOD” ?

ROMANS 10:17 † So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I TIMOTHY 4:5 † For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

HEBREWS 11:3 † Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

I PETER 1:23 † Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So who exactly is the WORD???

The scriptures above should be enough, In the beginning there was GOD. He alone was in the beginning. Then by His Word the Logos went out of God. which become the theophany, and that was in the form of a man. And Moses seen It pass by, in the cleft of the rock. And then that theophany was made absolutely human flesh, Christ. All the time it was the same spirit.

Marlin

February 12, 2012 at 4:05 am#277364

Participant

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 12 2012,20:49)

Pierre,

Quote

NOW DID JOHN TALKS ABOUT A WORD ? OR DID HE TALKED ABOUT JESUS CHRIST “THE WORD OF GOD” ?

ROMANS 10:17 † So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I TIMOTHY 4:5 † For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

HEBREWS 11:3 † Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

I PETER 1:23 † Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So who exactly is the WORD???

Marlin

Wrong,God has no beginning,

You can not see the difference between written word and THE WORD OF GOD,so be it ,I stop here this is done to me,

Pierre

February 12, 2012 at 4:14 am#277368

Participant

Pierre,

Show me where I said that God had a beginning?

Marlin

February 12, 2012 at 4:24 am#277374

Blocked

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 11 2012,19:17)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

In my experience, the only people who ever say, “You must have it revealed to you by spirit” are people whose doctrines aren't taught in the scriptures.

Our brains will never understand the truth without God's Spirit in US.

Spoken like a true Trinitarian – or one who would like us to believe that the Son OF God is the God he is the Son OF. It is only people whose doctrines aren't taught in the scriptures that say it won't make any sense to us until God's Spirit shows it to us.

I rest my case.

February 12, 2012 at 4:32 am#277382

Participant

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 12 2012,21:14)

Pierre,

Show me where I said that God had a beginning?

Marlin

In the beginning ther was God

February 12, 2012 at 5:12 am#277412