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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2012,07:50) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2012,01:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2012,06:53) But John 1:1 doesn't say “and the Word was God”.
Hi Mike,Of course it does!
“and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)
Okay All,I will begin to show you all what I've learned about John 1:1.
First lesson:
Are you all aware that the Hebrew and Greek languages did not use the indefinite article “a”?If you were not aware, you are now. Each of the over 7000 times you read the word “a” in English translations of the Holy Scriptures, that word has been added in by translators to make the sentences understandable to our language.
That is lesson #1. Any questions so far? Any disputes?
Hi Mike,Agreed. But that does not change the fact that John 1:1 is rendered as… “and the Word was God” …which you say it isn't?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHey Mike good luck with these guys, they don't have any clue what Jesus was before He became flesh…..
Peace Irene
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2012,17:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2012,07:50) Are you all aware that the Hebrew and Greek languages did not use the indefinite article “a”? If you were not aware, you are now. Each of the over 7000 times you read the word “a” in English translations of the Holy Scriptures, that word has been added in by translators to make the sentences understandable to our language.
That is lesson #1. Any questions so far? Any disputes?
Hi Mike,Agreed. But that does not change the fact that John 1:1 is rendered as… “and the Word was God” …which you say it isn't?
Patience, my dear Watson.
Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 09 2012,09:00) Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,02:44) That's right 42 God spoke and his son existed.
What do you think of this verse?
John 5:37 “And the Father himself, which has sent me, hath born witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.”
NO ONE HEARD HIS VOICE “AT ANY TIME”
so who was it that spoke in the OT?
Georg
Hi GeorgeIt was the Word speaking in the OT. God always spoke through angels, or the prophets.
How did the angels come into being?Georg
Georg.
THAT IS SOME AWSOME QUESTION YOU ARE ASKING.
MYABE THIS WILL HELP.WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANYTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE.
AND HOW HE DID IT? I-DONT-KNOW- YOU HAVE TO ASK HIM.
BY THE WAY, WHILE YOU ARE AT IT MAYBE YOU COULD ASK HIM THE FORMULAE also.wakeup.
Wakeup
“””WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANYTHING MADE THAT WAS MADE.”””
Doesn't this refer to the son, Jesus?
There is no formula, God created the angels through his son the same way he created him, he spoke and it was done. That's why it says; he, Jesus, is the only begotten son of God, the first born of all creation.
Do you have children? how many first born do you have?
I have one first born, and three more children that I beget.
Georg
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2012,09:51) Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 08 2012,16:23) That Word became flesh before he died.
I thought you said the Word became flesh (Jesus) after he was raised from the dead.Your words: Because Jesus was not the Word of God until after His resurrection.
Hi MikeYes I see your point. Wrong choice of words I used. Jesus was not pronounced the Word of God until his resurrection, and I explained it wrong because I got a bit sidetracked there, with constant interruptions in my household – constant, constant, constant, even now(lol)
but Christ always was the Word, from the beginning.
The Word was made flesh as soon as Christ was born, and then at his resurrection, the Word changed form again – into spirit, but with a name, a title, more honour.John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth
But when Christ rose, that's when we beheld his glory, for he conquered death and no more has to endure the weakness of the flesh. He is now declared the Word of God, even though he always was – but it's final now, this is his new name, new title, the man Jesus was glorified, because he was loyal to death, and the Word of God in him was glorified, and they became one in spirit.
You brought up a good point, and thank you for pointing out my error, I hope this makes sense to you now.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2012,18:18) Thank you J,
Yashua spoke for himself when he said“I thirst”
Then he gave up his spirit and died to be raised in the life Spirit of God.
That is our hope too.Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it and whoever loses his life will preserve it-lk 17 cf jn 12
Exactly Nick. jesus the man has his own spirit,and when he died he commend it to his father.wakeup.
Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 09 2012,06:36) …….but Christ always was the Word, from the beginning.
Yes, from HIS beginning – before the ages.This is the point I'm trying to make to you, Devo, and Wakeup. The “Word” in John 1:1 is Jesus, the Son of God. He was the Word AND the Son of God before he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being.
Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 09 2012,06:36) The Word was made flesh as soon as Christ was born
Born as a human being, yes. But Christ existed as a sentient being long before that happened.Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 09 2012,06:36) But when Christ rose, that's when we beheld his glory……
I disagree. I believe that John was speaking of the glory Christ displayed during his ministry on earth. I imagine that God doing all those signs and wonders through him caused him to be much glorified by the witnesses of those signs and wonders.But I don't think this would amount to a stumbling block for either one of us – so it's okay that we disagree on this point.
The following info is from NETNotes, comprised from 25 Trinitarian scholars, who would like nothing more than for John 1:1c to really say “the Word was God” – meaning Jesus is God Himself.
Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.
Can we all see that there are THREE grammatically correct possibilities for the translation of John 1:1c? They are as follows:
1. God
2. a god
3. qualitatively god, as in “of the god species”, or “godlike”, “divine”, etc.That is lesson #2. Any questions? Any disputes?
Yes Nick. The spirit of all the many christs God has anointed was of God.
Please address the previous post, where the three possible translations of 1:1c are shown. If you have nothing to refute this information, then just sit back and learn. I will be posting more tomorrow – God willing.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 10 2012,14:50) Hi MB,
You demean the Christ of God comparing him to mere leaders?
Should you not open your ears?
NickGod the father is not the son ,my understanding is that Christ has supremacy over all of creation and so his a God to all of creation but His GOD is his father ,right ?? to it is
Pierre
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 10 2012,15:05) Hi T,
For us there is one God and one Lord.
nickbut are they different beings
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2012,06:43) The following info is from NETNotes, comprised from 25 Trinitarian scholars, who would like nothing more than for John 1:1c to really say “the Word was God” – meaning Jesus is God Himself. Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.
Can we all see that there are THREE grammatically correct possibilities for the translation of John 1:1c? They are as follows:
1. God
2. a god
3. qualitatively god, as in “of the god species”, or “godlike”, “divine”, etc.That is lesson #2. Any questions? Any disputes?
Hi Mike,“Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” (Isaiah 44:8)
So then Isaiah 44:8 disqualifies “B” as a 'viable' possibility; do you agree?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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