For Wakeup

[terraricca]

dev

Quote

Now, that essence was growing within Jesus, that other spirit, so Jesus increased in spirit and wisdom as He aged, learning from that spirit within Him. And that essence had no limit to “its” growth within Him, unlike the “cap” the rest of us get…the measure we get.

did you find this truth in scriptures or you just made it up,???

Jesus was a Jew and like all Jewish his parents as teach him there faith and went to the synagogue were he could read for himself the letter from his father,

Many do not know that God ad made communication in the scriptures for Christ only so that he could receive the enlightenment and understanding from it as what to do and how to become ready for the task ahead ,but God did that ,

Ho my God ,I love you,amen,

Pierre

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2012,02:50)

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 07 2012,03:54) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2012,14:23) J42 Quote What bible is that you reading? I'm starting to understand why we getting crossed wires sometimes Throw that Bible away. No good. I suggest KJV you will see the scriptures more clearly so I have quoted scriptures to explain one thing but you carefully sneak trough it and find some thing so irrelevant to say ,I wander if you ever read the bible ,I mean reading the bible not in a year but almost night and day,so that you can remember something out of it , now to answer you ego ;I use about on a average 8 bible in two languages,and I have all written copies of them ,and have more like the KJV 1611,LXX I have also four french versions , dictionaries,many I give away,   AND SO YOU HAVE NO CLUE TO THE SCRIPTURES I QUOTE RIGHT??? Pierre Hi Pierre Those scriptures you quoted are good, and are the word of God but we need to understand THE WORD and Jesus is that word but he wasn't the man Jesus Christ in the beginning in the same form he is in today He was THE WORD and THE WORD is EVERYTHING that comes out of Gods mouth God's Word always had glory for it came out of himself. I am not denying that Jesus was with God in the beginning, but he was THE WORD then. So the scriptures are true J42 yes I was right you have no clue ,and you are just a MILL of words ,do you think that I can not see were you going ?? a honest believer comes with scriptures and show were the understanding lays,NOT WERE HE PERSONALLY THINK IT SHOULD BE  those are OPINIONS, so you are full of air,if you want to teach go to 8 years old kids,not to mature Christians or if you do then behave like one, SCRIPTURES ARE THE RULES;INTERPRETATION WITHIN THE SCRIPTURES,NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS. Pierre

Hi Pierre

I must of hit a raw nerve!
Sorry to get you so fired up, for thats not my intention

Please don't take anything I say personal,
I told you before you were in my prayers
deep inside there is love,
so let brotherly love continue,
even if we disagree
because we will miss out on the kingdom if we don't have at least this.
Peace brother.

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2012,08:46)

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 05 2012,20:19) John 17:2  As thou hast given HIM power over all flesh, that HE should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given HIM John 17:3   And this is life eternal, they they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent THIS IS THE WORD SPEAKING THROUGH CHRIST So there are three individual beings involved here?  There is God, His Son Jesus, AND His Son “the Word”?

There are 2 Mike
God and his Word.
The Word of God was not an individual in the beginning
but spirit
God commanded, and the Word executes
and God made everything through his word
and God turned his Word into flesh
I can't understand why this is so hard to comprehend?
For me it's like grade 1, first base
but to everyone else it's a huge mystery?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 07 2012,16:14)

and God turned his Word into flesh I can't understand why this is so hard to comprehend?

If God turned His Word into flesh, and that flesh Word was Jesus, then how can you say the Word was speaking THROUGH Jesus if Jesus is in fact that Word?

Do you see now why your explanation is hard for us to understand?

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 08 2012,16:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2012,02:50) Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 07 2012,03:54) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2012,14:23) J42 Quote What bible is that you reading? I'm starting to understand why we getting crossed wires sometimes Throw that Bible away. No good. I suggest KJV you will see the scriptures more clearly so I have quoted scriptures to explain one thing but you carefully sneak trough it and find some thing so irrelevant to say ,I wander if you ever read the bible ,I mean reading the bible not in a year but almost night and day,so that you can remember something out of it , now to answer you ego ;I use about on a average 8 bible in two languages,and I have all written copies of them ,and have more like the KJV 1611,LXX I have also four french versions , dictionaries,many I give away,   AND SO YOU HAVE NO CLUE TO THE SCRIPTURES I QUOTE RIGHT??? Pierre Hi Pierre Those scriptures you quoted are good, and are the word of God but we need to understand THE WORD and Jesus is that word but he wasn't the man Jesus Christ in the beginning in the same form he is in today He was THE WORD and THE WORD is EVERYTHING that comes out of Gods mouth God's Word always had glory for it came out of himself. I am not denying that Jesus was with God in the beginning, but he was THE WORD then. So the scriptures are true J42 yes I was right you have no clue ,and you are just a MILL of words ,do you think that I can not see were you going ?? a honest believer comes with scriptures and show were the understanding lays,NOT WERE HE PERSONALLY THINK IT SHOULD BE  those are OPINIONS, so you are full of air,if you want to teach go to 8 years old kids,not to mature Christians or if you do then behave like one, SCRIPTURES ARE THE RULES;INTERPRETATION WITHIN THE SCRIPTURES,NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS. Pierre Hi Pierre I must of hit a raw nerve! Sorry to get you so fired up, for thats not my intention Please don't take anything I say personal, I told you before you were in my prayers deep inside there is love, so let brotherly love continue, even if we disagree because we will miss out on the kingdom if we don't have at least this. Peace brother.

J42

you did not hit a nerve ,wen i use bolted capitals it is to attract your attention,no more no less;

but i say it again ;scriptures have to interpret scriptures this is the way it is the truth that justified truth both being from God anything else is of men ,do you understand what I said

Pierre

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2012,09:51)

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 07 2012,16:14) and God turned his Word into flesh I can't understand why this is so hard to comprehend? If God turned His Word into flesh, and that flesh Word was Jesus, then how can you say the Word was speaking THROUGH Jesus if Jesus is in fact that Word?   Do you see now why your explanation is hard for us to understand?

Hi Mike

Yes it is a bit of a tricky one I suppose. I had a bit of trouble understanding it at first, but once understood, it's a breeze.
When I was younger, there were all these born again christians telling me that Jesus was God the Father, and that never sat right for me, so I had to delve deep into it, because I felt like I was going crazy at the time.

Look at these verses. This is Jesus speaking to the Father

John 17:2 As thou hast givenpHIM power over all flesh, that HE should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given HIM

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, they they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent

Jesus DOESN'T say, thou has given ME power, that I should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given ME (not in these verses anyway)
….Can you see how the Word is speaking about Jesus. The WORD inside him is speaking to God about Christ, like he's not there.

Jesus hadn't joined and become one with the word UNTIL his resurrection. Before that, the Word of God was put inside of him, and because Jesus obeyed, that Word grew until he had the full measure of the Word. At his resurrection, the Word transformed into him fully. He is now called the Word of God.

Jesus said, everything I speak is my father speaking through me, then there were other times when Jesus was speaking on his own accord. He had hid own soul. He made his own choices, and chose to honour his father till death. Thats why he gets a high reward, he did it willingly. He was not programmed like a robot, he was not forced, but was an example to us that if we worship the father in spirit and in truth, and learn of him, then we will get our reward too, and claim our inheritance, just like he did. He calls us brothers, and we also inherit everything that belongs to our Father. But Jesus will always have the highest honour.

I don't know if I can explain well enough. I can only guide you, to stir you up to look into it more, and the holy spirit is the only one that can teach you and help you understand.

And it does matter what version of the bible you read, because we analyse and hang off every single word spoken in all the verses. One word added in or taken away, can change the whole meaning. And I hope people realise this.

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,10:12)

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 08 2012,16:08) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2012,02:50) Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 07 2012,03:54) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2012,14:23) J42 Quote What bible is that you reading? I'm starting to understand why we getting crossed wires sometimes Throw that Bible away. No good. I suggest KJV you will see the scriptures more clearly so I have quoted scriptures to explain one thing but you carefully sneak trough it and find some thing so irrelevant to say ,I wander if you ever read the bible ,I mean reading the bible not in a year but almost night and day,so that you can remember something out of it , now to answer you ego ;I use about on a average 8 bible in two languages,and I have all written copies of them ,and have more like the KJV 1611,LXX I have also four french versions , dictionaries,many I give away,   AND SO YOU HAVE NO CLUE TO THE SCRIPTURES I QUOTE RIGHT??? Pierre Hi Pierre Those scriptures you quoted are good, and are the word of God but we need to understand THE WORD and Jesus is that word but he wasn't the man Jesus Christ in the beginning in the same form he is in today He was THE WORD and THE WORD is EVERYTHING that comes out of Gods mouth God's Word always had glory for it came out of himself. I am not denying that Jesus was with God in the beginning, but he was THE WORD then. So the scriptures are true J42 yes I was right you have no clue ,and you are just a MILL of words ,do you think that I can not see were you going ?? a honest believer comes with scriptures and show were the understanding lays,NOT WERE HE PERSONALLY THINK IT SHOULD BE  those are OPINIONS, so you are full of air,if you want to teach go to 8 years old kids,not to mature Christians or if you do then behave like one, SCRIPTURES ARE THE RULES;INTERPRETATION WITHIN THE SCRIPTURES,NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS. Pierre Hi Pierre I must of hit a raw nerve! Sorry to get you so fired up, for thats not my intention Please don't take anything I say personal, I told you before you were in my prayers deep inside there is love, so let brotherly love continue, even if we disagree because we will miss out on the kingdom if we don't have at least this. Peace brother. J42 you did not hit a nerve ,wen i use bolted capitals it is to attract your attention,no more no less; but i say it again ;scriptures have to interpret scriptures this is the way it is the truth that justified truth both being from God anything else is of men ,do you understand what I said Pierre

Yes Pierre,
I think I understand what you are saying,
and again, I am sorry if I offended you brother.
I should shut up sometimes, and go sit in the corner!

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 09 2012,00:31)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,10:12) Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 08 2012,16:08) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2012,02:50) Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 07 2012,03:54) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2012,14:23) J42 Quote What bible is that you reading? I'm starting to understand why we getting crossed wires sometimes Throw that Bible away. No good. I suggest KJV you will see the scriptures more clearly so I have quoted scriptures to explain one thing but you carefully sneak trough it and find some thing so irrelevant to say ,I wander if you ever read the bible ,I mean reading the bible not in a year but almost night and day,so that you can remember something out of it , now to answer you ego ;I use about on a average 8 bible in two languages,and I have all written copies of them ,and have more like the KJV 1611,LXX I have also four french versions , dictionaries,many I give away,   AND SO YOU HAVE NO CLUE TO THE SCRIPTURES I QUOTE RIGHT??? Pierre Hi Pierre Those scriptures you quoted are good, and are the word of God but we need to understand THE WORD and Jesus is that word but he wasn't the man Jesus Christ in the beginning in the same form he is in today He was THE WORD and THE WORD is EVERYTHING that comes out of Gods mouth God's Word always had glory for it came out of himself. I am not denying that Jesus was with God in the beginning, but he was THE WORD then. So the scriptures are true J42 yes I was right you have no clue ,and you are just a MILL of words ,do you think that I can not see were you going ?? a honest believer comes with scriptures and show were the understanding lays,NOT WERE HE PERSONALLY THINK IT SHOULD BE  those are OPINIONS, so you are full of air,if you want to teach go to 8 years old kids,not to mature Christians or if you do then behave like one, SCRIPTURES ARE THE RULES;INTERPRETATION WITHIN THE SCRIPTURES,NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS. Pierre Hi Pierre I must of hit a raw nerve! Sorry to get you so fired up, for thats not my intention Please don't take anything I say personal, I told you before you were in my prayers deep inside there is love, so let brotherly love continue, even if we disagree because we will miss out on the kingdom if we don't have at least this. Peace brother. J42 you did not hit a nerve ,wen i use bolted capitals it is to attract your attention,no more no less; but i say it again ;scriptures have to interpret scriptures this is the way it is the truth that justified truth both being from God anything else is of men ,do you understand what I said Pierre Yes Pierre, I think I understand what you are saying, and again, I am sorry if I offended you brother. I should shut up sometimes, and go sit in the corner!

[NickHassan]

Thank you J,
Yashua spoke for himself when he said

“I thirst”

Then he gave up his spirit and died to be raised in the life Spirit of God.
That is our hope too.

Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it and whoever loses his life will preserve it-lk 17 cf jn 12

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2012,06:53)

But John 1:1 doesn't say “and the Word was God”.

Hi Mike,

Of course it does!

“and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)

Did you think God's word was somebody else?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Devolution]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,08:44)

dev Quote Now, that essence was growing within Jesus, that other spirit, so Jesus increased in spirit and wisdom as He aged, learning from that spirit within Him. And that essence had no limit to “its” growth within Him, unlike the “cap” the rest of us get…the measure we get. did you find this truth in scriptures or you just made it up,??? Jesus was a Jew and like all Jewish his parents as teach him there faith and went to the synagogue were he could read for himself the letter from his father, Many do not know that God ad made communication in the scriptures for Christ only so that he could receive the enlightenment and understanding from it as what to do and how to become ready for the task ahead ,but God did that  , Ho my God ,I love you,amen, Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Lol, no i don't make it up bro…

Here is my scripture..

Luke 2:40
And the Child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon Him.

Luke 2:52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

So Jesus was waxing (increasing) in spirit.
filled with wisdom (the word within Him, teaching Him)
increasing in wisdom and status.

Cheers.

[Devolution]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2012,06:53)

Hi Devo, Thanks for that post explaining how you understand things.  It is not scripturally accurate, as we know from Heb 1:2 that the universe was created through the Son of God. (It seems that you don't think Jesus was God's Son until he was born of Mary, right?  So that doesn't fit.) All things in heaven and on earth were created through the Son of God.  (Col 1:13, 16) All things were created through our Lord Jesus Christ.  (1 Cor 8:6) And all things were created through the Word of God.  (John 1:3) Jesus is called “the Word of God” by the author of John 1:3.  (Rev 19:13) Are you seeing the pattern yet? To Devo, Wakeup, and Journey: What is needed in this discussion is not more lengthy posts explaining how your story all “fits together” in your minds.  What is needed is for you guys to answer how all things could have been created through the Son of God (who was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of men) if the Son of God didn't even exist until he was born of Mary.  Because, (and take especial note of this) not only were all things said to have come through the Word, but ALSO through God's only begotten SON. I have a feeling that the standard translation of John 1:1 is behind all of this.  People don't know how to understand “and the Word was God”, and so, knowing that Jesus is NOT God Himself, they have to come up with all kinds of ways to work this out in their heads. But John 1:1 doesn't say “and the Word was God”.  Perhaps we should move onto that scripture, because I believe the truth of 1:1 will help you all out. peace, mike

Hi Mike,

No problem if we disagree. But let me give some scriptures bro to your quotes in blue…

[Color-blue](It seems that you don't think Jesus was God's Son until he was born of Mary, right? So that doesn't fit.)[/Color]

Genesis 5:4
And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Hebrews 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

So there was a day, when Jesus was on this earth, that God made Him His Son.
So who was He to God before this event?
note: God begot Him, not adopted Him.

IF He were His Son previously, God needed not beget Him, but scripture shows that God did indeed beget Him as His Son.
And God will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Him a Son..

All things in heaven and on earth were created through the Son of God. (Col 1:13, 16)
All things were created through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor 8:6)
And all things were created through the Word of God. (John 1:3)

Remember that Word speaking through Jesus?
That word that was not His own…
And how Jesus stated that that word that He spoke was in fact spirit, and His Father's?
It is this very word that Jesus became one with.
Note:
They were not yet one when Jesus was a man, this is why that word within Him could speak of Him to His Father as though Jesus was not there. They were not yet one.

[Color=blue]Jesus is called “the Word of God” by the author of John 1:3. (Rev 19:13)

Yes but only after it was revealed to John, after Christs resurrection. NEVER before that event was Christ mentioned under this name until after His ascension.
This is important.

Please think about this.
To become one with that Word that was not His (becoming one at resurrection), is to become that word period.
So NOW Jesus was always that Word, because they became one.
Now Jesus did indeed create everything…etc
This is that mystery

Hence His new Name:
Revelation 19:12-13
……..and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself,
And He was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Again, No man knew this name until John recorded it down for all men to know…and this vision was revealed to John only after Christ left this world and was changed into Spirit.

So why was this name never mentioned before?
Because Jesus was not the Word of God until after His resurrection.

Are you seeing the pattern yet?

Lol, Mike, i used to struggle with this also. Two years of headaches and sleepless nights and prayer…
Then one day….it was crystal clear.

We must remember this though…
Luke 10:22
All things are delivered unto Me of My Father, and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father, and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him…

So 2 points:
#1, if you were right, unless Jesus shows me, i can never see it..and vice versa.

#2, If Jesus did create everything using some other explanation other than “ours”, then why did He need all things to be delivered to Him if they were already His..since He created them in the first place.

Just a few points bro…
God bless…

[journey42]

Hi Mike

What did you think of this verse Wakeup quoted

Psalm 33:6   By the Word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

and this verse is good too
Psalm 33:9   For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Everything was made by God's Word.  By the breath of his mouth.  Everything he speaks, everything that comes out of God, is his Word, and it is done.
When Jesus said, I came out from the Father, it was the Word speaking.

John 8:28   Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he (the Word) and that I do nothing of myself, but as my Father hath taught me, (the Word) I speak these things.(the Word)

[Pastry]

That's right 42

God spoke and his son existed.

What do you think of this verse?

John 5:37 “And the Father himself, which has sent me, hath born witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.”

NO ONE HEARD HIS VOICE “AT ANY TIME”

so who was it that spoke in the OT?

Georg

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 08 2012,00:24)

One word added in or taken away, can change the whole meaning.  And I hope people realise this.

Hi Journey and Devo,

Is it your understanding that John 1:14 is flawed?

Because for your understanding to be realized, 1:14 must say “the Word came to be IN someone who was flesh”.

Yet that would force us to add a word into the Greek text that isn't there.  And as Journey so aptly pointed out, one single word added or taken away can change the whole meaning.

Now on the other hand, if 1:14 is correct just how it is, then the Word BECAME (or WAS MADE) flesh.  Therefore the flesh thing WAS the Word itself.  And if that is the case, your understanding doesn't align with the scriptures.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2012,01:28)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2012,06:53) But John 1:1 doesn't say “and the Word was God”. Hi Mike, Of course it does! “and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)

Okay All,

I will begin to show you all what I've learned about John 1:1.

First lesson:
Are you all aware that the Hebrew and Greek languages did not use the indefinite article “a”?

If you were not aware, you are now.  Each of the over 7000 times you read the word “a” in English translations of the Holy Scriptures, that word has been added in by translators to make the sentences understandable to our language.

That is lesson #1.  Any questions so far? Any disputes?

[terraricca]

Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 09 2012,03:25)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 08 2012,08:44) dev Quote Now, that essence was growing within Jesus, that other spirit, so Jesus increased in spirit and wisdom as He aged, learning from that spirit within Him. And that essence had no limit to “its” growth within Him, unlike the “cap” the rest of us get…the measure we get. did you find this truth in scriptures or you just made it up,??? Jesus was a Jew and like all Jewish his parents as teach him there faith and went to the synagogue were he could read for himself the letter from his father, Many do not know that God ad made communication in the scriptures for Christ only so that he could receive the enlightenment and understanding from it as what to do and how to become ready for the task ahead ,but God did that  , Ho my God ,I love you,amen, Pierre Hi Pierre, Lol, no i don't make it up bro… Here is my scripture.. Luke 2:40    And the Child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon Him. Luke 2:52    And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man. So Jesus was waxing (increasing) in spirit. filled with wisdom (the word within Him, teaching Him) increasing in wisdom and status. Cheers.

dev

you have said nothing at all it is like you have not understand nothing in scriptures;

you quote me scriptures but you do not know ,the meaning of none

Pierre

[journey42]

Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,02:44)

That's right 42 God spoke and his son existed. What do you think of this verse? John 5:37  “And the Father himself, which has sent me, hath born witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.” NO ONE HEARD HIS VOICE “AT ANY TIME” so who was it that spoke in the OT? Georg

Hi George

It was the Word speaking in the OT. God always spoke through angels, or the prophets.

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2012,07:33)

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 08 2012,00:24) One word added in or taken away, can change the whole meaning.  And I hope people realise this. Hi Journey and Devo, Is it your understanding that John 1:14 is flawed? Because for your understanding to be realized, 1:14 must say “the Word came to be IN someone who was flesh”. Yet that would force us to add a word into the Greek text that isn't there.  And as Journey so aptly pointed out, one single word added or taken away can change the whole meaning. Now on the other hand, if 1:14 is correct just how it is, then the Word BECAME (or WAS MADE) flesh.  Therefore the flesh thing WAS the Word itself.  And if that is the case, your understanding doesn't align with the scriptures. peace, mike

Hi Mike

The Word is spirit.
But but God's word is not only coming out of his mouth now, it's coming out of his son. The fullness of God dwelt in Jesus. So this must mean that the fullness of the Word was in him. That Word became flesh before he died.

John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

We don't eat Jesus physical flesh do we? Feeding off the flesh of Christ is to feed of the Word that he has in him. He's the only one that carries this light. Meat for the spiritually hungry.

And we beheld his glory…
this happened when the Son was lifted up. Resurrected.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 08 2012,16:23)

That Word became flesh before he died.

I thought you said the Word became flesh (Jesus) after he was raised from the dead.

Your words: Because Jesus was not the Word of God until after His resurrection.

[Author]

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