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Gene.
The Valley of Hennon symbolizes a concept but that concept is not the grave. Do not be confused by Anglican translators choice of a word that symbolized their own teaching of the afterlife. Even then you are misinterpreting the word as the Anglicans do not believe the Hell symbolizes what you say it does.
The valley is where Scripture teaches us pagans sacrificed their own children and that King Josiah defiled, 2 Kings 23:10. So basically Jesus is teaching us something to the effect that God destroyed both the souls and bodies of the those that refuse to repent as an act of cleansing.
Since a murderer can only destroy a person’s body when they kill that person it follows that the victim’s soul is not destroyed by the destruction of that person’s body. You hypothesis that the soul stops existing when the body dies is disproved.
I do not believe you will admit your error because I have yet to see you admit any error but whether or not you choose to admit your error the truth does not change. You are the one that has to give account for your chosen teaching before God, whom Jesus teaches us to fear.
Nick…..So only you have a right to YOUR OPINIONS? IF YOU CAN FIND WHAT I POST IS IN ERROR THEN POST IT, ONE OR TWO WORD SLAMS ONLY SHOW YOUR CONTEMPT FOR OTHERS AND THE WORD OF GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
Kerwin……Go back and take an honest unbiased look at what i wrote ans show scriptures that dispeoves it. I don’t want to engage in further go no where dialogs with you, you must at least give what i am posting some honest evaluation. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………..gene
Gene,
I see that you are attempting to break scripture with the teaching you are advocating. It is not going break, if you keep going on that path you will break.
You have two separate situations
- human beings destroy the body by killing a person
- God destroys both the body and soul
So according to the implications of your teaching
- Human beings destroy both the body and soul as you insist the soul is destroyed when the body is
- God destroys the body and soul when humans kill a person or any other time they die.
In either case you should fear the humans who will cause your body and soul to be destroyed as they are just as much threat as god and less prone to mercy.
Kerwin……please do not falsely qive an opinion of what i have said, no where did i say a human being can destory us, i said he can desrory the body,but not the spirit it goesback to the father who gave it in the first places, so the spirit still exists after a person dies, but that is not a “living soul” there is apsolutly not thinking going on after a person dies. I have even quoed scriptures over and over here that supports that conclusion. Which you chose not to except. So your problem iswith scriptures not me. IMO
Peace and love to you and. …………….gene
Gene,
Are you claiming the spirit and soul are one and the same?
If so then your teaching has changed.
Gene,
A dead body is a destroyed body as Jesus is encouraging his followers not to fear death at the hands of unbelievers.
In the same way a dead soul is a destroyed soul.Kerwin……when did i ever say the spirit and the soul are the same thing? Again your not paying attention. What i have “ALWAYS” said is this, now pay attention please.
A BODY + SPIRIT = A “LIVING SOUL”, Rather a man, animal, fish, foul, or any live moving physical thing.
NOW is that me saying that or your own bible?
Gen 2:7
Job 12:10
Psa 56:13
Psa 84:2
1Cor 15:45
Rev 16:3peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
Hi GB,
God did not teach you what you teach and you only use scripture that supports your dogmatic stances it seems.
Kerwin……when did i ever say the spirit and the soul are the same thing? Again your not paying attention. What i have “ALWAYS” said is this, now pay attention please.
A BODY + SPIRIT = A “LIVING SOUL”, Rather a man, animal, fish, foul, or any live moving physical thing.
NOW is that me saying that or your own bible?
Gen 2:7
Job 12:10
Psa 56:13
Psa 84:2
1Cor 15:45
Rev 16:3peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
So you understand it is the breath that returns to God and not the soul?
The soul descends to Sheol/Hades/Hell.I can see how you get you equation from Genesis 2:7 but you wrongly assume that it the only possibility.
There is at least one other possibility and that is that the soul first comes into an independent existence when God’s breath enters the body he created. Trees, though living, have no soul. An independent soul leaves a body even as consciousness departs while the soul you claim exist would simply stop existing when the breath departs to return to God. An independent soul is free to descend to Sheol when a person dies while a defendant soul stops existing when a person dies. You claim test false when tested by Scripture. You have to get to the point of grieving for your ideas to accept that they are false.
Kerwin……Where did i say tge breath return to GOD, SCRIPTURE DOES NOT SAY THAT AS FAR AS I HAVE SEEN, what i said was the “spirit” returns to GOD WHO GAVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Please quote me right, instead of building a senerio of a false statement i have not made. That is exactly what NICK DOES, he takes my words out of proper context in order to try to make me appear as i am non scripturial.
I CAN GIVE YOU MORE SCRIPTURES SHOWING THE SOUL IS THE COMPLETE PERSON IF YOU WOULD LIKE. NOT ONLY HUMANS BUT ALSO ALL ANIMALS ARE LIVING SOULS ALSO. I will find them for you and post them if you like. Please quote me completely and accurately brother. You don’t want to be a false accuser of the brethern Kerwin. Remember what out lord said we are to love one another. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
Hi GB,
So spiritual truth is
what is written
AND
what you can justify by your logic.
Sorry but most do not agree.
Nick……The spirit OF TRUTH will agree with “MOST” of what is written some scriptures have been mistranslated but we have what we have , if i bring up scriptures to support what i am saying, why do you take offense, i believe OUR GOD GIVEN MINDS ARE MADE TO REASONED WITH?
Isa 1:18…… Come now, and let us “REASON” together, saith the LORD: THOUGH YOUR SINS AS SCARLET, THEY SHALL BE AS WHITE AS SNOW, THOUGH THEY BE RED LIKE CRIMSON, THEY SHALL BE AS WOOL.
God want us to reason with him and even welcome it from us i believe. Look i am not saying i know everything i only see in part i know that, PAUL ALSO KNEW THAT, saying we only see in part like looking through obsquired glass. Were just striving to better understand, we are supposed to edify one another anyway, if i say something you disagree with fine it’s just my opinion, i am not GOD, i could be wrong no matter how much i believe i am right, but can’t we disagree with each other without put downs, how does that edify the body JESUS DIED FOR?
Look brother i love and care about everyone here, GOD KNOWS MY HEART, HE KNOW I CARE FOR EVERYONE HERE. This attacking and putting each other down has to stop. Lets all try “espically” me, to be kinder to one another, look if i have offended you or anyone here, i beg forgivness from you all, i do not want to hinder any seekers of truth, nor prevent any from the KINGDOM OF GOD. My hope is that we all come to the unity of the faith, and live In the KINGDOM OF GOD FOR EVER WITH EACH OTHER.
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
Gene,
Kerwin……Where did i say the breath return to GOD, SCRIPTURE DOES NOT SAY THAT AS FAR AS I HAVE SEEN, what i said was the “spirit” returns to GOD WHO GAVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
So you do not comprehend that the breath is the wind(spirit) that returns to God.
In Ecclesiastes 12:7 we are told that the body returns to dust and the spirit returns. It is the reverse of how God made humanity from the earth and breathed his breath into him. It is not difficult to understand that breath is a form of wind.
Do you see not or do you know of some other wind God is said to give humanity when he created them?
Nick,
Gene does not use logical reasoning, which is used in a logos argument.
His preferred style is ethos
Ethos (Credibility), or ethical appeal, means convincing by the character of the author. We tend to believe people whom we respect. One of the central problems of argumentation is to project an impression to the reader that you are someone worth listening to, in other words making yourself as author into an authority on the subject of the paper, as well as someone who is likable and worthy of respect.
Pathos (Emotional) means persuading by appealing to the reader’s emotions. We can look at texts ranging from classic essays to contemporary advertisements to see how pathos, emotional appeals, are used to persuade. Language choice affects the audience’s emotional response, and emotional appeal can effectively be used to enhance an argument.
Logos (Logical) means persuading by the use of reasoning. This will be the most important technique we will study, and Aristotle’s favorite. We’ll look at deductive and inductive reasoning, and discuss what makes an effective, persuasive reason to back up your claims. Giving reasons is the heart of argumentation, and cannot be emphasized enough. We’ll study the types of support you can use to substantiate your thesis, and look at some of the common logical fallacies, in order to avoid them in your writing.
Jesus probably used all three though I can not think of any but one case that he used and that one is not present in older manuscripts. That is the when he challenged the audience when the adulteress was brought before him to to judge.
Hi GB,
The preference of natural man is only to accept what our reason agrees with.
It is not the way of God.
We are told to be transformed by the renewal of our minds.
Thy word is truth.
Nick……if our minds are lead by the SPIRIT OF GOD, they will see the logical truth in what is written, why did we even recieve the spirit of truth for, is not for that reason? Are we not being taught by that SPIRIT?
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
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