For Jammin

[NickHassan]

Hi Jammin,
SON?
Which greek word in your quote means SON?

[jammin]

are you blind?
monogenes means only child or only son

do you understand?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2012,01:45)

1.  In Rev 4:11, who did John see sitting on the throne?  (From Ed J) 2.  God Most High has a Son named Jesus.  Does Jesus have a Son named Jesus?  YES or NO?

Jammin?

[NickHassan]

Hi Jammin,
Jn3.16
For God so loved the world that He gave HIS MONOGENES SON…}
Was SON unnecessary in this verse ?

[jammin]

nick,

i think you should study first greek
you cant understand that bec you do not know greek

[jammin]

Quote (Ed J @ May 22 2012,00:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2012,01:45) 1.  In Rev 4:11, who did John see sitting on the throne?  (From Ed J) 2.  God Most High has a Son named Jesus.  Does Jesus have a Son named Jesus?  YES or NO? Jammin?

1 GOD
2 they have the same nature, GOD
you and your father have the same nature, MAN

you are not an animal by nature edj

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 20 2012,21:49)

no mike. the angel of God is God himself. that is the son of the father who is himself God.

So Jesus is an angel of God?  I agree.  

Hosea 12:3-4
………and with his dynamic energy he contended with God. 4 And he kept contending with an angel and gradually prevailed.

jammin, did Jacob wrestle with “God”?  Or with “an angel”?  Or do you suppose that “God” IS “an angel”?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So you do not accept Heb 1 where it is made clear there is a distinction between Jesus and the angels?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 20 2012,21:49)

2. we are talking about the nature. if your father is man by nature, you are also man by nature. the father is God by nature, the son is also God by nature.

That doesn't answer my question, jammin.

We know from scriptures that God Most High has a Son named Jesus, right?

Does Jesus have a Son named Jesus? YES or NO?

I'll give Ed a chance to address your answer of “GOD” to his question before I address it.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2012,11:27)

Quote (jammin @ May 20 2012,21:49) no mike. the angel of God is God himself. that is the son of the father who is himself God. So Jesus is an angel of God?  I agree.   Hosea 12:3-4 ………and with his dynamic energy he contended with God. 4 And he kept contending with an angel and gradually prevailed. jammin, did Jacob wrestle with “God”?  Or with “an angel”?  Or do you suppose that “God” IS “an angel”?

the answer is both.

God in the OT is also called the Angel of God.
means messenger.

Wesley's Notes

32:30 Peniel – That is, the face of God, because there he had seen the appearance of God, and obtained the favour of God.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2012,11:29)

Quote (jammin @ May 20 2012,21:49) 2. we are talking about the nature. if your father is man by nature, you are also man by nature. the father is God by nature, the son is also God by nature. That doesn't answer my question, jammin. We know from scriptures that God Most High has a Son named Jesus, right? Does Jesus have a Son named Jesus?  YES or NO? I'll give Ed a chance to address your answer of “GOD” to his question before I address it.

am i not MAN by nature bec i dont have a son mike? yes or no?

[jammin]

hos 12.4

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed,…. This is repeated in different words, not only for the confirmation of it, it being a very extraordinary thing, and difficult of belief; but to direct to the history here referred to, where the person Jacob prevailed over is called a man, and here the angel; and so Josephus (u) calls him a divine Person; not a created angel, not Michael, as the Rabbins say, unless the Messiah is meant by him; nor Jacob's guardian angel, as Kimchi, every man being thought by some to have one; and much less Esau's evil angel, that was against Jacob, as Jarchi and Abarbinel; for of him he would never have sought nor expected a blessing; but an uncreated Angel, the Son of God, the same that went before the Israelites in the wilderness, and that redeemed Jacob from all evil, Genesis 48:16; called an Angel, being so not by nature, for he is superior to angels in both his natures, divine and human; but by office, being sent to reveal the will of God, and to do the work of God in the redemption and salvation of men; the same that is called the Angel of the great council in the Greek version of Isaiah 9:6; and the Angel of God's presence, Isaiah 63:9; and the Angel or messenger of the covenant, Malachi 3:1; the phrases used denote, as before, the power and prevalence Jacob had with this divine Person in prayer; whereby he obtained the blessing of him, even deliverance from his brother Esau, as well as others respecting him and his posterity;

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2012,18:29)

Hi MB, So you do not accept Heb 1 where it is made clear there is a distinction between Jesus and the angels?

2 Kings 25
27 In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the year Evil-Merodach became king of Babylon, he released Jehoiachin from prison on the twenty-seventh day of the twelfth month. 28 He spoke kindly to him, and gave him a more prominent seat than those of the kings who were in Babylon.

Does the bolded part exclude Jehoiachin from being a king because there is “a distinction made” between him and the kings who were in Babylon?  

Or is it implied that even though Jehoiachin was in fact a king, he was set apart from the OTHER kings in Babylon?

Which one, Nick?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 21 2012,18:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2012,11:27) Quote (jammin @ May 20 2012,21:49) no mike. the angel of God is God himself. that is the son of the father who is himself God. So Jesus is an angel of God?  I agree.   Hosea 12:3-4 ………and with his dynamic energy he contended with God. 4 And he kept contending with an angel and gradually prevailed. jammin, did Jacob wrestle with “God”?  Or with “an angel”?  Or do you suppose that “God” IS “an angel”? the answer is both. God in the OT is also called the Angel of God. means messenger.

So “God” is an “angel OF God”? “God” is a “messenger OF God”?

Hmmmm……………….

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 21 2012,18:36)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2012,11:29) Does Jesus have a Son named Jesus?  YES or NO? am i not MAN by nature bec i dont have a son mike? yes or no?

I'm tired of playing games, jammin.

The answer is: NO Mike, Jesus does NOT have a Son named Jesus.

And since we know that God DOES have a Son named Jesus, and Jesus DOESN'T have a Son named Jesus – we also know that Jesus is NOT the God he is the Son of.

[jammin]

the son is not the father mike. how many times do i need to tell you this?
but they have the same nature, GOD

now , you need to study the nature of GOD.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2012,11:46)

Quote (jammin @ May 21 2012,18:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2012,11:27) Quote (jammin @ May 20 2012,21:49) no mike. the angel of God is God himself. that is the son of the father who is himself God. So Jesus is an angel of God?  I agree.   Hosea 12:3-4 ………and with his dynamic energy he contended with God. 4 And he kept contending with an angel and gradually prevailed. jammin, did Jacob wrestle with “God”?  Or with “an angel”?  Or do you suppose that “God” IS “an angel”? the answer is both. God in the OT is also called the Angel of God. means messenger. So “God” is an “angel OF God”?    “God” is a “messenger OF God”?   Hmmmm……………….

hos 12.4

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed,…. This is repeated in different words, not only for the confirmation of it, it being a very extraordinary thing, and difficult of belief; but to direct to the history here referred to, where the person Jacob prevailed over is called a man, and here the angel; and so Josephus (u) calls him a divine Person; not a created angel, not Michael, as the Rabbins say, unless the Messiah is meant by him; nor Jacob's guardian angel, as Kimchi, every man being thought by some to have one; and much less Esau's evil angel, that was against Jacob, as Jarchi and Abarbinel; for of him he would never have sought nor expected a blessing; but an uncreated Angel, the Son of God, the same that went before the Israelites in the wilderness, and that redeemed Jacob from all evil, Genesis 48:16; called an Angel, being so not by nature, for he is superior to angels in both his natures, divine and human; but by office, being sent to reveal the will of God, and to do the work of God in the redemption and salvation of men; the same that is called the Angel of the great council in the Greek version of Isaiah 9:6; and the Angel of God's presence, Isaiah 63:9; and the Angel or messenger of the covenant, Malachi 3:1; the phrases used denote, as before, the power and prevalence Jacob had with this divine Person in prayer; whereby he obtained the blessing of him, even deliverance from his brother Esau, as well as others respecting him and his posterity;

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 21 2012,18:38)

………but an uncreated Angel, the Son of God, the same that went before the Israelites in the wilderness, and that redeemed Jacob from all evil, Genesis 48:16; called an Angel, being so not by nature, for he is superior to angels in both his natures, divine and human; but by office, being sent to reveal the will of God…………

I agree with all of this except the “uncreated” part.

I agree that Jesus was the angel of God who was sent before the Israelites in the wilderness. I agree that as a spirit being and as a man, Jesus was (and is) superior to the OTHER angels of God.

But jammin, any angel OF God cannot possibly BE the God he is the angel OF.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 21 2012,18:49)

the son is not the father mike. how many times do i need to tell you this?

There is but ONE God Almighty, right jammin?

Which God has a Son named Jesus?  That One is our ONE and ONLY God Almighty.  If God the Father is the ONLY One who has a Son named Jesus, then God the Father is the ONLY One who is God Most High.

You can spout the word “nature” until you're blue in the face, jammin.  It won't change what I just posted.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You say
“I agree that Jesus was the angel of God who was sent before the Israelites in the wilderness. I agree that as a spirit being and as a man, Jesus was (and is) superior to the OTHER angels of God.”
This is wild speculation

[Author]

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