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T8: “You can clearly see the bottom of the buildings are cut off from view.”
In case you missed the point Mike made it was that all of the buildings should be well under the curve.
Also, it has been explained and demonstrated here that the atmosphere both magnifies and bends the light down thru refraction which explains the missing little bitty bit of missing building.
How did you explain why we can see any part of the buildings much less most of them?
Atmospheric refraction is the deviation of light or other electromagnetic wave from a straight line as it passes through the atmosphere due to the variation in air density as a function of height.
WikipediaReflection is the process by which “a surface of discontinuity turns back a portion of the incident radiation into the medium through which the radiation approached.” Reflection is important to take into account since about a third of the energy from the sun is reflected.
http://www.severewx.com/Radiation/reflection.html
It looks like this image is using a wide angle lense. The sun and horizon looks too small or far away. Of course, if the earth was flat, you should be able to view the sun over the water or flat land till it appeared as a mere star. It would then become bigger again when it returns. That is from a star size from our perspective to the size of the sun in midday. But you don’t see that because the Earth is not flat.
The sun wouldn’t appear as a big round ball of light on the horizon and then disappear immediately. It would just get smaller and smaller. Because it is the brightest object in the firmament, it should still be visible as a mere twinkling star. Then put a scope on it and make it large again and you should be able to repeat that so that it never leaves your view. This we do not see. Instead, a rather big sun disappears from the bottom first and then the whole thing. This is exactly what happens on a globe earth.
T8 “The creation event like prophecy is not the same as a recorded event in history right?”
Dig That may be your conclusion but many who believe in the Word of God do view it as an historical event.
Yes it is historical, but it is not an everyday historical event like Jesus waking up in the morning and climbing a mountain to pray.
There was no sun according to you for the first 3 days and the morning of the fourth day. That is not everyday and the language too is not everyday.
Likewise, prophecy is not everyday and the language is not everyday. Hours can be years, centuries, even millennia. Weeks can be years etc. Swords can mean the word of God or sharp words of authority that can cut the finest cut.
About half your mornings in the creation event have no sun and still you insist a 24 hour day as if God was bound to a 24 hour day like a man and before the sun was created. No serious bible student will take your cherry picking of when to take a literal meaning of a word. You can’t prove that a day in the creation event without the sun is 24 hours just as you cannot say that Judgement Day is exactly 24 hours long.
Again, pay attention. Look at the post (I think third from the top of this page), and tell me if the man walking away is disappearing over the curvature of the earth. Seriously, tell me if he is, so I know I won’t have to deal with this same crap another hundred times.
Easy to do if there is a slight hill.
Not sure if this is called the selenelion. If it is, then here is an explanation.
When you consider that the sun and the moon are on precisely opposite sides of our planet during a lunar eclipse, it may seem geometrically impossible for an earthly observer to see both celestial bodies at the same time. However, the refraction effect means light can be bent enough to place the sun on one side of the sky, and the darkened moon on the other.
This effect is known as selenelion — pronounced “sell-a-NELL-ion,” to rhyme with “hellion” (though “sell-a-NEEL-ion” may be an alternate). To see it, you have to be at just the right place at the right time. For Americans, that’s when the moon is setting and the sun is rising.
“It’s a phenomenon that’s barely possible,” said Michael Zeiler, who has charted scores of eclipses as the curator of Eclipse-Maps.com. “Besides being in the right location, you have to have the right conditions. Those right conditions require that you be at a high point, with an excellent view toward the horizon to the east and the west, and have transparent sky conditions to see both the sun and the moon.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/lunar-eclipse-provides-extra-twist-skywatchers-selenelion-n219586It is a very rare event apparently, but here is the thing Mike. You ignore the log and promote the speck. What of the ordinary days where the sun circuits passed us. Why doesn’t this brightest light scale down to the size of a star and fade? Why does it disappear as a big sun from the bottom first. Because the Earth is a globe right. That is the answer in case you missed it.
Now let’s imagine that your video is impossible on a Globe Earth, then explain to me how this proves the Flat Earth. Surely it is equally impossible on a Flat Earth and as such this needs its own topic on how to explain it as it is not relevant to this topic. But if it is the ‘selenelion’, then we already know what it is anyway. You go on about this video being the proof and ignore the much weightier evidence or the log and promote the speck, which let’s be honest usually have sensible answers after some digging.
I wouldn’t for example deny that Madagascar exists just because one or five pictures from space didn’t show it. There could be a number of logical reasons why. Most people are sensible and are not going to be swayed to and fro by things like this. Obviously a truth seeker will eventually uncover lies and change accordingly, but they are fools who are blown about by the wind in all directions. A righteous truthful person is steadfast and changes when it is required and doesn’t believe every report.
T8: “Yes it is historical, but it is not an everyday historical event like Jesus waking up in the morning and climbing a mountain to pray. There was no sun according to you for the first 3 days and the morning of the fourth day. That is not everyday and the language too is not everyday.”
Glad to see you admit it was an historical event. That’s something.
When Lincoln was shot in Ford theater it wasn’t an everyday event but it was an historical event so things often do not need to be everyday events to be historical. Pretty basic.
How are you equating the language not being everyday because the historical event was not everyday? “Lincoln was shot”; are these not everyday words describing a single historical event? What if I said, “On the day that Lincoln was shot he was in the Ford theater”? Would you then believe that was a long period of time and not a normal day? One time historical events use common language just as repeating events do.
The fact that the language says that there was no sun for the first three days does not mean that “There was no sun according to you“. No, it is not according to me but according to the language the Bible uses. You are apparently using something else to come to your conclusion.
To all…..Hope we are now done with this FLAT EARTH “stupidity”?
Peace and love to you all and yours. …..gene
T8: “Easy to do if there is a slight hill.”
Generally speaking, the people that make football fields strive to make the field level.
Glad to see you admit it was an historical event. That’s something.
Common sense would tell you that if I believe in God and the scriptures, that I would believe that God created the universe at some time in the past. Why even make that comment?
How are you equating the language not being everyday because the historical event was not everyday?
Again, some common sense is in order. Creation of the universe is not really on the same par with Paul walking down the street on a certain day. Judgement Day is not anything like an ordinary day where I get up and pour myself a cup of coffee. Certainly making it all the same is a bit silly. Hebrew uses words like day to mean 24 hours and periods of other lengths too. In English we do it too, but we have more words at our disposal. We say darkness to mean night and say darkness to mean a lack of spiritual light or understanding.
The Bible is full of code, parables, prophecy, and events that take place outside of our direct experience. Just use a bit of common sense when reading it.
Generally speaking, the people that make football fields strive to make the field level.
Generally speaking yes. Not in this case. The goal post could even be solitary as the other one may have fallen or is being replaced. Perhaps the post is for kicking practice only. The condition of the post, the grass, and the background fence is rather appalling IMO, so I am not going to buy into the idea that the ground in the photo is perfectly level. Further, when you zoom into the pic, the fence in the background looks like a makeshift post. There is a piece of rope going across which could be used as the second goal. Do not be duped, the person is walking up a slight rise. It reminded me of the marble on the table example trying to prove the marble dips below the level which was easily debunked.
Could be Nick, if the park is not an important one which it doesn’t look to be.
The local pitch where I live is level and uses small holes punched into the ground and filled with a little sand. It works really well. Outside of the pitch can be sodden in winter, but the pitch itself is great to play on.
Nick: Hi Mike,
God will rule in Israel.
He will rule through his Son Jesus Christ.
Ezekiel 23:23-27
…they shall be my people, and I will be their God. My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd… and David my servant shall be their prince forever… My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
God and Jesus will both rule – along with the apostles and others. But that is besides the point. The point is that God spoke of one who…
- Would come out of Bethlehem.
- Would rule over Israel.
- Had come into existence long before Micah did.
So whoever or whatever you think the one is, all three of those things must apply to him/it – because Jehovah Himself applied all three of those things to him/it. If you don’t agree, your argument is with God, not me. I’m merely quoting God’s own words.
Nick: Hi Mike,
Heb 4
Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His REST…
Hi Nick, here’s those questions again…
Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
- How many days are we to work before taking a day off?
- What is the reason God Himself gave for giving us this schedule?
Nick: Hi Mike,
“ONE will go forth for ME to be ruler in Israel.”
And you think the
ONE
IS the
ME.?
Of course not… that would be silly. That is what you originally said, and I tried to correct you on it. The “one” is someone other than the God he will go forth for and rule over Israel for. The “me” is Jehovah. I’m trying to get you to see that the “one” is Jesus.
Hi Mike,
Indeed the angels had every reason to celebrate as the plan of God from the beginning of time was starting to be fulfilled-
the chosen human vessel for the Spirit of God had been conceived and been born at Bethlehem.
Now, born under the Law, he had to perfectly fulfil that law and prove God was fair in giving it to men.
He had to remain sinless and show us how to overcome our lusts.
Found clean at the Jordan he was filled with the Holy Spirit to enable him to speak for and do the works of God and later to return to earth for God to rule through him. God is triumphant.
D4T: How did you explain why we can see any part of the buildings much less most of them?
He hasn’t. The only explanation anyone can offer is that the buildings are really behind the curve, but refraction has shot their image back up on top of the curve so we can see them. Three points…
1. It’s good to see them admit that there’s no way we could seeing the real buildings from that far, because they’d be hidden by the curve.
2. It’s absurd in the highest possible degree to think refraction could bend the image of those buildings a thousand feet back up over the curve in perfect acuity and form – with zero distortion.
3. That refraction could do such a thing has never, in the history of man, been tested, demonstrated, or verified.The refraction claim is a last ditch post hoc hand waving gesture that is impossible to prove. The argument goes like this…
1. The buildings are impossible to see on our ball earth.
2. But the earth is a ball.
3. Therefore, it must be some kind of light-bending anomaly that allows us to see them… even if we can’t verify it.That’s not science, D – as I’m sure you’re well aware. It is a case of the observational evidence arguing so decisively against the standard model that the actual scientific evidence must be rejected in order to save the model it disproves.
Scientific Method
Empirical science entails a systematic approach to epistemology that uses observable, testable, repeatable, and falsifiable experimentation to understand how nature commonly behaves. – https://www.allaboutscience.org/scientific-method.htm
The scientific evidence that can be observed, tested, repeated and falsified proves beyond any shadow of doubt that the earth is not a ball 25,000 miles in circumference. The reason for rejecting this observable, testable, repeatable and falsifiable evidence is neither observable, testable, repeatable nor falsifiable. So it’s a case of rejecting the scientific findings with a non-scientific just-so story.
He hasn’t. The only explanation anyone can offer is that the buildings are really behind the curve, but refraction has shot their image back up on top of the curve so we can see them. Three points…
Read my post again. You can clearly see in your photos that the bottom of the buildings are cut off. That fits the ball earth model nicely and you keep posting up this globe earth proof. As for seeing anything at all that is supposedly behind the curve, then you have atmospheric refraction. Think about it, it is not every fine day you see buildings that far away or Mt Ruapehu from 200km away. So obviously something is going on whether the earth is flat or a globe. Atmospheric refraction is likely what is going on in these rare instances.
As believers we need to be steadfast. No point being swayed here and there by reports or photos. Keep a level head and try not to ignore the log of evidence in order to include a speck. We need to be wise. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. If the earth was flat, there would be an oversupply of evidence. A rare anomaly here and a video there is not enough. There are plenty of UFO videos on YouTube too and I have seen superheroes in action as well. Lol.
T8: Mike, you can easily simulate the curvature effect using a small distance from yourself. If a field rises slightly then you could walk over it and start to dissappear over the other side and it could easily look flat 5o the observer.
I’m not sure how they do it in NZ, but here in America, we make our football fields perfectly level. 🙂 I’m pretty sure that’s why the guy chose a football field for the experiment, because everybody watching it in America would know he was walking away on perfectly level ground. But there are lots of other similar experiments on YouTube. In one video, the guy is in a huge warehouse with a perfectly flat poured concrete floor, and he walks away dragging a box attached to a rope behind him. Not only does he disappear from the bottom up, but so does the perfectly flat box on the perfectly flat floor. In another one, the guy is on a flat bridge that he shows with a higher camera angle. Then he puts the camera low and shows how the passing cars and bicyclers start disappearing from the ground up after only a few meters. I’ll find them for you if you think it would help. It’s a perspective thing, T8. These tests are all on perfectly flat surfaces, and the objects always disappear from the bottom up.
So whatever else is true or false, we know for a fact that disappearing from the bottom up is not proof of going over a curve. Can you at least agree to that?
Explain to me why objects dissappear from the ground up and not top down for example. This will be interesting.
That marble on the table example was definitely fake. I tried it myself, and I could see the whole marble the whole time. When I dropped the far side of the table below the near side, which was very easy to do and could be done mistakenly, then the effect you describe happened.
And as I mentioned before, the photo of the football field is not a proven football field. You can see a goal and further away there appears to be a makeshift goal using rope. So the vantage point would then be outside the field. The visible ground looks to be in bad condition as does the goal post, and I highly doubt we are looking at a level playing field, rather outside the field or on a slightly sloped or curved field.
T8: You can clearly see in your photos that the bottom of the buildings are cut off. That fits the ball earth model nicely and you keep posting up this globe earth proof.
Hopefully after reading my previous post, you’ll understand that the bottoms of the buildings being hidden is not a globe earth proof. And hopefully that will bring you back to the meat of my point – which is that not one single bit of any of those buildings would be visible on a ball earth. And hopefully my response to D4T will be enough for you to know (or at least investigate) that refraction cannot bring something we can’t see 1000 feet back up over the horizon at all – let alone in perfect acuity and form, with no distortion. Here’s a National Weather Service weather cam time lapse of Skunk Bay throughout a day. This will show you what refraction actually does…
It’s only four minutes long, but if you watch from the 45 second mark to the 1:45 mark, you’ll see some pretty cool refraction effects. The entire town disappears at times, and the mountains and forests are dancing like crazy. But at no time will you ever see something that is behind a curved horizon being projected up over the horizon and into view. Every thing that is waving all over the place was already within view to start with. Sometimes those things disappear from view – but nothing is brought over a curved horizon into view.
Please comment after watching it, so I know that you did.
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