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Proclaimer: From this discussion, I want to produce a writing to expose this lie and highlight why flat earth is a cult. In particular I want to disprove the claims that the bible teaches a flat earth…
The mission of this website is to test all things using scripture and FE was thoroughly tested and debunked.
1. You claiming that “pillars are people” and “a ball can look like a circle” isn’t exactly a case of “thoroughly testing and debunking” anything. 😉
2. If your mission truly IS to test all things using scripture, then put your money where your mouth is and address my death-blow scriptural rebuttal to the unscriptural creation account that you’ve made up in your own imagination.
I don’t think you will address that post, because you can’t. Prove me wrong.
The foolish pillar argument debunked again
You claiming that “pillars are people” and “a ball can look like a circle” isn’t exactly a case of “thoroughly testing and debunking” anything.
It’s one more nail in the coffin. And I am not claiming that pillars are people, but people can be like pillars. They can be pillars of society or pillars of the church. You lack spiritual understanding. When you are born from above, you are born of the Spirit.
If your mission truly IS to test all things using scripture, then put your money where your mouth is and address my death-blow scriptural rebuttal to the unscriptural creation account that you’ve made up in your own imagination.
Pretty sure I have addressed all your concerns. Maybe you are too blind to see?
Flat Earthers cannot explain the Southern Hemisphere
If the flat earth looked like this, then it would agree more with my travel around the Southern Hemisphere. But it would be totally ignorant of me to ignore those that live in the Northern Hemisphere, because their travel experience is nothing like what it would be in reality.
Perhaps now you can see how ignorant Northern Hemisphere Flat Earthers really are? And Southern Hemisphere flat earthers are even more foolish. Especially if they have travelled between continents in the Southern Hemisphere.
Why aren’t Southern Hemisphere flat earthers arguing that Antarctica is the actual pole and the Northern Hemisphere or Arctic is the ice wall?
Mike, could you be convinced that the Antarctica is the pole and the Artic the ice wall. It does help the argument for the Southern Hemisphere?
Shatner saw the curvature of the earth. Mike says he is not telling the truth
You have borne false witness against me. Please repent, apologize, and ask for forgiveness.
Let’s you and I END this BS right here and now, shall we?
Millions of people swear they’ve seen earth curve from airplanes (7 miles up). Neil DeGrasse Tyson says that you can’t see earth curve even from 65 miles up (where Shatner allegedly was). Wally Sparks, who also went on the Virgin Galactic flight, said her biggest disappointment was that they didn’t get high enough for her to see the curve of the earth.
Rubbish. To hold your view, you must believe that Shatner lied. Otherwise you have to admit that he saw the curve. Your rebuttal further proves that you believe he is not telling the truth, so I do not need to apologise. My assessment is correct then. You must further hold to the view that millions are lying to us. Shatner, pilots, space agency employees, satellite employees, etc. In short, you accuse many people of being liars when they are not lying at all. If that is not troublesome for you, then I can only wonder about your conscience Mike.
Further, apparently you can detect the curve at 35,000 feet, but you also need something like a 60 degree view on a cloudless day. I guess Neil is saying to be assured of seeing it, you have to be higher. A plane typically would not offer that kind of view. The windows give you a small slice of the earth below. Thus, Neil is perhaps saying to be guaranteed to see the curve, you need to be at a certain height. Further, even if you cannot see it and take a photo and then take out a ruler, you may see it then. I think he is just saying, if you are a in a plane, you will not see the curve. You would only see it if you were ridiculously high while in a plane. But as I have proved. You can detect the curve even 20 metres up. All the more then if you are thousands of feet up.
Here is how you can detect the curve from only metres up. Take a photo of a large boat and then scale some 20 metres higher and taking another photo of the same boat. Here is the proof.
The altitude range needed in order to see the curve
It’s hard to see the curvature of the earth from an altitude of 7 miles or 37,000 ft (typical cruising altitude of a jetliner) but easy to see from 250 miles (typical altitude of the ISS).
The line of sight from an aircraft at 37,000 feet = 235 miles. That’s only about 3.4 degrees of the earth’s surface. From the ISS at 250 miles, the line of sight is 1,435 miles, which covers about 19.8 degrees of the earth’s surface – much easier to see the curve from this altitude.
Visual daytime observations show that the minimum altitude at which curvature of the horizon can be detected is at or slightly below 35,000 ft, providing that the field of view is wide (60°) and nearly cloud free.
Mike, once again, you have been DEBUNKED.
Correcting Mike regarding my response to what a day is and can be.
But Mike keeps forgetting
Gene, I’ve posted these questions numerous times. Why do you suppose that you, Proclaimer and Carmel haven’t answered them?
What are you talking about. I have stated numerous times that a day in relation to people is mostly going to be either 12 or 24 hours. How many times do I have to say it before you recognise it? But in relation to God without man (and the sun according to you) it will not be 24 hours. So six days for us will be 6 x 24 hours and for God it will not. Yet both are still six days. It’s just that a day to us is not like a day to God.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
So once again mike, you have done the very thing this scripture is telling you not to do. It says to NOT FORGET this fact. Yet, that is what you do. You forget about it or ignore it. Why? Because it goes against your narrative. Not very honest is it Mike?
Clearly then, the creation days before the sun and man are not going to be 12 or 24 hours are they. Of course not.
You guys have this belief without reason that a day must be 24 hours just like you have this simple belief that there is a universal down in all of creation.
You believe and teach downity and dayity.
It’s hilarious.
You lost all credibility a long time ago Mike.
Your accusations are baseless and your conclusions are drawn from error.
Of course Mike denies the Cavendish experiment
Why? Because it does not agree with his narrative. We seem to live in an age where fake news is everywhere. Fake news is not just lies, but it also ignores the truth.
What the freak? Do you see what I’m up against, Gene? The guy who constantly claims that I don’t know science apparently believes that the gravity between two bodies of mass has a point of equilibrium where its attractive force is nullified by its repelling force!
Gene, maybe you could explain to Mr. Science that the “equilibrium” between the sun and the earth requires the exact mass of both bodies AND the exact SPEED at which one orbits the other. Thanks.
Proclaimer, gravity is solely an ATTRACTIVE force. There is no point of equilibrium. The two stationary bodies in that video would have moved closer and closer together until they collided with each other. They wouldn’t get to a certain distance away from each other and then stop there because of some “anti-gravity repelling force”.
Why exactly do you think the Cavendish experiment is wrong. Have you performed the experiment? I haven’t. But I trust that if I did do it, it would work in the same manner. I think it is wrong to say that an experiment is wrong when you haven’t done it yourself. Especially if it is not that hard to perform.
Further, the earth attracts the moon into its orbit. But the moon also has gravity and attracts the earth. We see that influence in the tides. The moon’s distance from earth and its speed has struck the perfect balance between crashing to earth and escaping away.
I also think you did make a legitimate point about two objects that are attracting one another. But let me further explain the context. If the earth forces the moon into its orbit, but the moon also forces the earth into it’s orbit, obviously the moon will lose. But not entirely. The fight for orbit are obviously opposing as there has to be a winner. But in a sense they are orbiting each other even if the moon forces the earth to only wobble slightly. So, an equilibrium is found as far as orbits. But perhaps I should have also mentioned that the earth is moving so the moon never crashes into the earth, but I have mentioned this many times before in other posts and I feel like I shouldn’t have to mention everything all the time just to stop you from probing what is not mentioned. I feel you should just know that if I have mentioned that fact before, that I still believe that, unless I recant that.
Are flat earthers honest people?
I honestly think flat earthers are just not honest people and I believe that God hands people over to deception because they do not have hearts for the truth. Look at what this flat earther says for example. he says: “What I just told you is confidential”.
But the truth should never be confidential Mike. Is this a man with a heart for God who loves the truth? It doesn’t look that way from this small clip. Obviously I cannot judge the guy as there is so much I do not know about him. But that clip shows me a man who is trying to hide the truth. But I think the truth should be revealed and then we just deal with it. Not hiding the truth because it conflicts with your teaching.
Just hit play. It takes you to the exact spot where you see a guy wanting to hide the truth.
What is clear to me is the truth is not the guiding force for flat earthers. If it was, then they would not be flat earthers. Although some flat earthers have changed their view which is great. I guess they were the ones where the truth mattered to them.
The earth was formless and void
Yes… and what does that mean? The earth had NO form. It was not a ball. It was not any shape at all, because it had yet to be formed into what it is now. And void means non-existent…
Think of a random lump of clay. Does it have form? IMO no.
Now turn it into a pot.
Does it have form now? Yes.
Did the clay exist. Yes.
Now that the clay is in the form of a pot, does the clay still exist? Yes.
So the planet existed, but had no form. It seems that it was probably a round rock covered in water. Something that some scientists believe too. So the earth was a blank canvas so to speak. But form came when God made land appear. This would include mountains, valleys, canyons, rivers, plains, etc.
Now think of a canvas. And then think of a painting. The latter has form. Yet, they are both a canvas.
This does leave the possibility that the earth had a previous form. That it was wiped by a cataclysm and then God recreated a new earth. After all, God will create a new earth and the old will pass away. This may not be the first time.
I remember when you had an open mind and asked questions like: were Adam and Eve the first of mankind. Could there have been people before them. They were healthy questions. Now everything revolves around this flat earth cult you joined. It captured your mind and you are now a prisoner to their doctrines. You are not a free thinker anymore and you blindly do the bidding of the flat earth gospel and church. The God of Heaven did not call you for this because he is not a liar like Satan and God wants all to come to repentance and be saved. Your flat earth doctrine is a worthless pursuit.
Adam: Sun STOPS moving: Isaiah 60:20, Job 9:7, Joshua 10:12–14, Habakkuk 3:11
Proclaimer: What does the sun do?
It shines light.
What happens when the sun stops?
It stops shining light. Maybe an eclipse.
Proclaimer, Joshua wanted the daylight to last longer so he could continue his destruction of the enemy, and so he commanded the sun to stand still.
God listened to Joshua, and “the sun stood still in the middle of heaven and delayed going in about a full day”. (Joshua 10:13)
How could you possibly suggest that an eclipse (about 2 minutes of DARKNESS) is in any way related to a request for an extended period of DAYLIGHT?
Please try again using the actual words of the scriptures. What does it mean to you that the sun stood still in the middle of heaven for about a whole day? How would that work in your helical model?
Adam: Sun moves BACKWARDS: 2 Kings 20:8–11
Proclaimer: It doesn’t say time or the sun went backward. I don’t know how the shadows on the sundial appeared in reverse for a time, but suffice to say there are easier ways to achieve this than making the sun go backwards. Try and think before you speak gadam. Or think before you copy and paste. Lol.
What CAUSES the shadows in the first place? The sun?
What CAUSES them to move in a certain direction? The sun “going forth from one end of heaven and running its circuit to the other”? (Ps 19:6)
What then would be the most likely CAUSE of the shadows moving in the opposite direction?
You say there are easier ways? Give us an example – along with a valid reason why we should believe your example over the most likely cause.
And make sure to take your own condescending advice to Adam, and try to think before you give us your answer this time. Because your answers so far have shown a clear lack of thinking before speaking.
Mike……..If the earth stoped spinning, the sun would stand still, in fact, the sun is always standing still. The earth is the one spinning and circulating around it.
Only you “flat earthers”, think the sun is moving, around the earth, no one today with any real understanding of our universe and how it works, thinks that the sun is moving around the earth today, only wacko’s think that. Common sense 101.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike………..gene
Berean: To all
The globular or flat earth is not a part of the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, BUT A DISTRACTION THAT CREATES ENDLESS POTTERY.
Tell me, does this topic tend to promote true Christian fellowship?
Does this advance you in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
AND AGAIN, DOES THIS DEBATE FAVOR THE SOULS TO COME TO THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD?Hi Berean. A few things I’d like to point out to you…
1. I respect your right to your opinion, but if the BIBLICAL shape of the earth is not important or interesting to you, then no one is forcing you to be on this thread.
2. You argue brilliantly for the Biblical account of the creation. I can’t understand why you’d accept the Bible’s authority on the timing of creation, but then disregard the parts of the same exact account that clearly tell you that heaven is a solid dome that supports waters above, in which God placed the sun, moon, and stars, and in which there are floodgates that God opened to let some of the waters above flood the earth. The Bible says God created THIS world in six literal days…
(The only flaw in this image is that the Bible says the sun, moon, and stars are IN the firmament, while the image shows them underneath it.)
Why do you fight so hard for the TIMING of God’s creation, but not for the Biblical account of WHAT God said He created?
3. There are millions of testimonials of people who were atheists before discovering that our world is not the insignificant pale blue dot in an endless vacuum of space that Carl Sagan told us it was. Those people have now come to God. Consider Carl Sagan’s view…
![carl-sagan-quote-the-pale-blue-dot.-space-print-poster-canvas.-sizes-a1-a2-a3-a4-3813-p[ekm]1150x812[ekm]](https://heavennet.net/wp-content/uploads/forum/933496/l9z6j8h2cky2pyjvbcj5dy07uywqtfee.jpg)
We’re supposedly that tiny pale blue dot in this alleged photo taken from millions of miles away. The “photo” shows just a tiny fraction of our solar system, which is itself just a tiny fraction of our galaxy, which is in turn the tiniest fraction of the universe. Now do you see how Satan has led BILLIONS of people away from God with this narrative? We are just one of trillions of other planets – all of which created themselves all across the universe – which also created itself. There is no God who would care so much about this one single insignificant dot, Berean. We are nothing. God is an illusion. We are just an accident.
But when those atheists find out that we actually live in a world like the first image above, they all of a sudden KNOW that our world was created by someone who had our needs in mind… and not an insignificant accident. So the flat earth movement has brought millions of people to God, and therefore to the salvation of His Christ.
4. We don’t “fight” any more on this thread/topic than we do on EVERY thread/topic on this site. After I’m done here today, I’ll head over to “fight” with Kathi about whether or not Jesus is part of a “Yahweh Unity”. And then I might “fight” with Gene about whether or not Jesus existed in heaven before being sent into the earth.
So the bottom line is that this topic is JUST as important to true Bible believers as any other. If a six literal day creation isn’t “A DISTRACTION THAT CREATES ENDLESS POTTERY”, then neither is the form of the world God created during those six literal days. You currently believe the Bible about one, but not the other. Stick around. Maybe something will grab your attention and lead you towards believing the Bible about the other one too.
God Bless
Berean: Yes, but persisting in wanting to convince people that the earth is not flat, but a globe, is counterproductive. Especially since your arguments on Genesis 1 are not sufficiently convincing, it must be said.
And what does that tell you, Berean? His “arguments” against scripture on the shape of our world are even less convincing. Like I said, stick around. Maybe you’ll start accepting the Biblical account of the shape as well as the timing. 🙏
Romans 3:4… Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that You may be proved right when You speak and victorious when You judge.”
I know that I will be proven right in the end. Why? Because all I’m doing is promoting the world that the Bible (and science) actually describes… the world that God Himself described for us.
Proclaimer: This is the sort of ridicule Flat Earthers who claim to be Christians enable amongst the Atheist community. The fruit is bad.
Do these same atheists also ridicule the idea that Noah could have carried two of each kind in a boat that survived a worldwide flood? Do they ridicule the very idea of a “Magical Sky Daddy” in general?
And since the answer to both (and many other Biblical teachings) is yes, does that mean the idea of God and the account of Noah’s flood are also “bad fruit”?
Proclaimer: To hold your view, you must believe that Shatner lied. Otherwise you have to admit that he saw the curve.
In reality, those are not the only two options. The fact that you think they are says a lot about your intelligence level.
Proclaimer: I guess Neil is saying to be assured of seeing it, you have to be higher….
Thus, Neil is perhaps saying to be guaranteed to see the curve, you need to be at a certain height.
Oh, so then are ARE other options than “it happened” or “he’s lying” after all? I will assume that your repentance, apology, and request for forgiveness for bearing false witness against me is forthcoming.
But no, Neil most certainly was NOT saying anything even close to what you suggest. Listen to him for yourself. The video is queued up for you. Watch for 1 minute and 5 seconds, and then tell me if you’re right or not…
Proclaimer: Pretty sure I have addressed all your concerns. Maybe you are too blind to see?
Well, I’ve laid out quite a few of them in post #933448, which is only six posts above your post that I’m answering right now. I’ll continue on through the thread (I’m responding as I go) to see if you addressed that post in any way, shape or form.
Mike: You claiming that “pillars are people” and “a ball can look like a circle” isn’t exactly a case of “thoroughly testing and debunking” anything.
Proclaimer: It’s one more nail in the coffin. And I am not claiming that pillars are people, but people can be like pillars. They can be pillars of society or pillars of the church. You lack spiritual understanding. When you are born from above, you are born of the Spirit.
See, this is what I’m talking about. Do you seriously believe that your response above is a matter of “thoroughly testing and debunking” anything?
You are arguing that since people can metaphorically be called “pillars of society”, when the Bible says God set the earth on pillars, it doesn’t really MEAN that God set the earth on pillars.
Are you seriously not able to see how your “argument” is nonsense – and doesn’t even come anywhere close to “thoroughly debunking” the Biblical fact that the earth literally rests on pillars?
Check out these commentaries on 1 Samuel 2:8. The red underlines are what the Bible actually says, and show that the commentators KNOW what the Bible is actually saying. The blue underlines are where these same commentators try to “explain away” what they KNOW the Bible actually says…
Can you see that, Proclaimer? Can you see it Berean? Gene? Carmel? Danny?
These scholars know full well that the Bible is saying that the world is literally set on pillars – and they acknowledge as much. But then they feel the need to make excuses for the Bible’s “mistake”. The one on the left suggests that the words were written by men in the primitive “childhood of peoples”, ie: by men who were ignorant to how the world actually was, and childishly thought the world actually did rest on pillars. Then he alludes to the recent “light of modern science” that shows how these childish men (and therefore the Bible itself) were wrong about that.
The one on the right also knows it is talking about the literal framework of our literal world. But then he suggests it is used metaphorically, and says we shouldn’t take it as saying anything about the earth’s shape.
Can you guys not see this? Can you not see these men accepting that the Bible says A, but then doing mental gymnastics with the written word of God to make excuses for why the Bible doesn’t actually mean what they admit it clearly says?
Berean, many of these scholarly commentators do the same thing when it comes to the six days of creation. Don’t be like these men. Let God’s written word be your ultimate authority on all things… including the shape of the earth.
Proclaimer: It’s one more nail in the coffin. And I am not claiming that pillars are people, but people can be like pillars. They can be pillars of society or pillars of the church. You lack spiritual understanding. When you are born from above, you are born of the Spirit.
Psalm 75:3… The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
In this verse, the pillars of the earth are still there even after all who dwell on the earth have been melted/dissolved. Understand? There are no people at all, yet the pillars of the earth remain.
Are you honest enough to admit that this verse is talking about literal pillars that support the earth?
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