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There are a lot of holes in your understanding.
Because God had already created the heavens and the earth before Day 1 concluded.
You do realise that the Sun, Moon, and Stars are the heavens right?
Are you saying that there is the heavens and earth and the sun, moon, and stars are not part of that description?
I feel like you have a Sunday school level understanding here.
You haven’t thought this through very well.
What does the heavens mean to you exactly. Because:
They were created before day one concluded according to the very first words in the Bible.
The fact that day and night existed before the end of the first day only strengthens this.
If you walk 10,000 kilometers straight along the earth’s surface, turn 90 degrees to your right, walk 10,000 kilometers more, turn right again and walk another 10,000 kilometers, you’ll be back to where you started, having successfully made a triangle with three 90 degree angles. As any geometry student can tell you, this is IMPOSSIBLE on a FLAT surface.
Proclaimer: The first problem is that you need to come up with a complicated answer whereas the heliocentric model is really simple and this one single model makes all phenomena simple like the orbits of wandering stars for example.
Are you under the impression that the current heliocentric model just popped into existence and explained everything? Have you forgotten that the original model had circular orbits – and that elliptical orbits had to be created out of thin air since the circular orbits didn’t align with what we could see from earth? Do you know the explanation for how all our planets ended up in elliptical orbits from a cloud of dust that was orbiting the sun in a circular fashion? Did you know that accretion (the currently accepted mechanism by which planets are formed) is known by those who accept it to be impossible? Do you know that the current mechanism for the creation of a star requires the perfectly timed and placed explosion of another star? How then did the FIRST star form? And the rest of them, considering that the first had to die to form the second, and the second had to die to form the third, etc?
The model to which you subscribe is anything but “simple”, and is incapable of explaining most observations. Why do you think your priests have had to whip up Dark Matter and Dark Energy out of thin air – along with hundreds of other things?
So you’re right that I certainly don’t have all the answers, but you pretend like the heliocentric model does, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Proclaimer, in your model, the atmosphere spins around with the earth, right? How does that happen? What are the mechanisms that make that work?
Hi Mike,
You: If you didn’t think pilots could see the curve, then why did you ask specifically about pilots?
Me: Well, some pilots or maybe some explorer pilots in all our history must have flown to the edge or even beyond the edge.
You: The above is one of the many great facts contained in “200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball”. They are all just short little paragraphs like the one above. It doesn’t take long to read. It is where I began my journey, and I highly suggest you look over these facts and give them some open-minded thought.
Me: I will take a look at it.
You: I’m enjoying our discussion and hope you keep an open mind going forward.
Me: Same here!
Just one thing. I hope you and Proclaimer would get along.
God bless.
Proclaimer: If people can be pillars, then there is no reason to believe that the earth sits on stilts just as people are not stilts. Spiritually minded people will understand what it means. Carnal men will only see a physical pillar. Likewise, when Jesus returns he will have a samurai coming out of his mouth rather than understanding what it means to have a sword coming from your mouth. Such is the foolishness of a carnal mind. It is not equipped to discern spiritually minded things.
Your argument on this matter has always been, “If one thing in scripture is metaphorical in nature, then I can claim metaphorical status to any other thing in scripture to make that thing fit into my narrative.”
So let’s consider just one of the “pillars” scriptures that Adam listed…
Psalm 75…
3When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.
10“I will cut off the horns of all the wicked, but the horns of the righteous will be lifted up.”
Notice the metaphorical use of “horns” in verse 10. I know that “horn” is a Hebrew idiom for “power”. I don’t believe that people have literal horns, some of which will be cut off and others of which will be lifted up. Therefore, I don’t fit your characterization of a “carnal man” vs a “spiritually minded man”.
So that in mind, when I read the word “pillars” in verse 3, and notice that it is clearly distinguished from “people” – ALL of whom will quake – I rationally understand it to refer to the literal pillars on which God set the world, as in 1 Samuel 2:8.
Naturally, to fit your narrative, you will say the pillars on which God set the world in 1 Sam are people – as if you think it makes sense for God to “set the world” on top of people. But what do you do with the pillars in Ps 75:3 – when it’s clear from the context that these pillars are NOT people?
Proclaimer: Nope. God’s own description say The Day he created the heavens and earth. And this including light took place BEFORE the conclusion of Day 1.
You are already aware that the word “day” can be used idiomatically to refer to an unspecified general period of time, so we don’t have to go over that again. Unfortunately for you, the plural word “days” has never, in the Bible or in the history of man, been used in that same idiomatic fashion. The plural word “days” – ALWAYS and WITHOUT EXCEPTION – refers to literal days.
So if the entire creation of heaven and earth and EVERYTHING IN THEM took place before the conclusion of Day 1, then what does it mean when God directly and explicitly tells us that He created the heaven, the earth, and everything in them in SIX DAYS?
There are MANY problems in your post – all of which can be settled with the words of scripture. But let’s break it down so we don’t end up talking past each other in novels, okay? That is my first question above. Please answer it directly and honestly.
Proclaimer: The sun is both part of the heavens and is also light. Maybe you are unaware of that.
You like to imagine that the creation of “heaven” INCLUDES all the things IN heaven, like the sun, moon, and stars. Why do you do that? You don’t conflate “the day God created the earth” with “the day God created the earth, the sea, vegetation, fish, birds, land animals, and mankind”, right?
And since you don’t conflate those two, why would you conflate “the day God created heaven” with “the day God created heaven, the sun, the moon, and the stars”?
That is my second simple question to you. Please answer it directly and honestly. I’m asking why you think the creation of “heaven” would INCLUDE the things IN heaven like the sun, moon, and stars when you DON’T think that the creation of “earth” INCLUDES the things ON the earth like vegetation, fish, birds, animals, and mankind.
What is your answer?
Proclaimer: God’s own description say The Day he created the heavens and earth. And this including light took place BEFORE the conclusion of Day 1.
You have argued that Gen 1:1 means that the creation of heaven and earth were already completed (and what follows is how God “terraformed” the earth), right? And you seem to think that the creation of heaven INCLUDES the sun, moon and stars, right? So if those two things are true, then how can Gen 1:2 say there was DARKNESS over the waters?
Now if you say that was before God created light (which you think is the sun), then it proves that the sun ISN’T a part of the heaven that you say was already created in Gen 1:1, and which you say INCLUDES the sun as a part of it.
Please elaborate.
Proclaimer: Your moon theory is easy to explain. I took a video of the moon with feathered edges, so that debunks you.
Your video shows no feathering whatsoever. Nor does it show a specular highlight. Both are REQUIRED on a rock in outer space that is lit up by a single light source. But neither can be seen on any photo or video of the moon since the creation of photographic equipment. The moon glows – as if illuminated from inside…
Uncanny!
Berean: I don’t agree on everything with Mike, far from it…
Really Berean? You had to add “far from it”? 😅😂
Just messing with you. I believe that we agree on many more things than we disagree on. 🙏
Proclaimer: So the heavens, earth, light, day, and night were already established. Can you see that?
If so, then what is Day 4 about?
If your premise is flawed, so will be your conclusion. But we’ll get to that after I see how you address those first three points I made to you today. (I don’t want to overwhelm you.)
Berean: LIKE MANY, I CONSIDERED IT COULD BE SUNLIGHT…
It can’t very well be sunlight if the sun didn’t exist until 3 days later.
Proclaimer: Yourself and Mike have no explanation.
Let’s see how you do with those first three questions that turn your theory against itself. Then we can continue.
Proclaimer: Are you saying that there is the heavens and earth and the sun, moon, and stars are not part of that description?
Interestingly, that is the very subject of two of my three questions to you today, which expose how your premise is faulty. I can’t wait to see your answers.
The questions are in consecutive posts – #932642, #932643, and #932644 – about half way down the previous page.
Danny: Well, some pilots or maybe some explorer pilots in all our history must have flown to the edge or even beyond the edge.
Explorers have indeed made it to the edge.
Danny: I will take a look at it. (200 Proofs the Earth is Not a Spinning Ball: http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html )
Fantastic!
Danny: Just one thing. I hope you and Proclaimer would get along.
God bless.
I get along famously with Proclaimer. It’s that Pretender guy that really gets under my skin. 😉
Proclaimer,
You Saïd:There are a lot of holes in your understanding.
Because God had already created the heavens and the earth before Day 1 concluded.
You do realise that the Sun, Moon, and Stars are the heavens right?
Me
My understanding is that God created the heavens and the earth IN 6 STEPS + THE SABBATH DAY
STEP 1
GOD CREATES AN EARTH WRAPPED IN WATER……👉v.1-5
THIS WATER…..WHEN IT IS SPLIT INTO TWO, THE BETWEEN WILL BE CALLED FIRMAMENT (HEAVEN)👉 See verses 6-8Already understand my unerstanding please (before saying that there are holes in my understanding)
God bless
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