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Sadly, that’s because you and the guy in the video hold the imaginative but unverifiable stories of the godless priests of scientism in higher regard than the inspired words of He who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.
God says He did it in 6 days. You and the priests you exalt say otherwise.
God says He created the sun on day four. You and the priests to which you cling say otherwise.
It’s truly just a matter of who you hold as a higher authority. Our Creator… or godless men who promote the idea that we don’t have a Creator at all
Your post is riddled with errors. Let me help.
Sadly, that’s because you and the guy in the video hold the imaginative but unverifiable stories of the godless priests of scientism in higher regard than the inspired words of He who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.
Many of these scientists were great men of God. They had no problem with scripture and science. Because both are true so they agree. Of course there is false doctrine and false science, but science simply means ‘knowledge’. First off, there is no scripture that teaches that the earth is flat. There is that which you think alludes to a flat earth, but we know that while the earth is roughly a globe, that our experience of it is essentially flat.
God says He did it in 6 days. You and the priests you exalt say otherwise.
God says that “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,”. Do you believe it is 70 literal weeks? The meaning in scripture is hidden from the wicked Mike. It takes a workman who is willing to study to crack the meaning, especially when times and dates are being referred to. Further, we know that one day is as a thousand years to God and a thousand years as one day. I do not think this means 1 days is exactly a thousand years, but that one day to an eternal being can be very long and also a very long period of time can be like one day to an eternal being. When God created everything in six days, the point here is six stages. This is the pattern we see throughout scripture and many great scientists like Newton, John Michell, and Robert Boyd, Jean Buridan, etc were strong believers and made huge contributions to science. So many great men of God were scientists, just too many to mention in this post. I just think that not all should do science that is more obvious to me now than ever before. Some people are too small minded to make such judgements about creation. They read what they want to read in scripture instead of being transparent and true. FOr me that is what the greatest of scientists are able to do. They seek the truth with all their heart and God delights in showing them. But you get these other kinds of people that are just narrow minded. They see what they want to see and this is true for some big named scientists who propose lies as truth.
God says He created the sun on day four. You and the priests to which you cling say otherwise.
It doesn’t actually necessity say that. It says this:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
On day 4, this happened.
“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.”
See that? The lights could easily have been created as part of the heavens, and at a certain period of time later (day4 as you say), these lights were visible through the vault perhaps because the atmosphere cleared up and made way for animal life to begin. But even if the sun was created at this point, (God could surely preserve the Earth without the Sun as he himself is light), it doesn’t have to mean it happened exactly at 24 hours x 4 and it doesn’t have to mean the Earth is flat, just as Daniels 70 weeks are not literal 70 weeks. You read too much into it, and your narrow view then denies the increase knowledge that we have today that was prophesied to happen.
It’s truly just a matter of who you hold as a higher authority. Our Creator… or godless men who promote the idea that we don’t have a Creator at all
Again, it is not a necessary choice that all science is false and 6 days means 6 x 24 hours. Your just being narrow minded. While yes the path is narrow, narrow mindedness is negative because it means you do not accept truth that falls outside of your own very limited experience.
T8: Look again. The unzoomed or less zoomed image is side on too. So if you zoom into a subject from the side, you will still see the side even more right? I know, I have been taking photos for decades. It is one of my favourite hobbies. This particular rebuttal of yours is very weak.
A hobby, huh? I made a very good living doing it as a pro for 20 years. But whatever, we both know a little about photography. Tell ya what… why not just zoom in on the wide shot yourself and see if it matches the close one? Or you could go on Google Earth and view South Island from an eye height of 250 miles, to see if it matches either of the ISS images. Then zoom in closer and see if it starts showing mountains from the side. I did these things, but see what results you get.
As for the part of my post you didn’t address, I made a visual aid…
I just continued the outline of the earth from the curved edges at the top of the ISS image, to show the size of South Island as compared to the rest of the globe. The other image is of South Island from Google Earth. I tried to center them similarly for comparison, and I outlined South Island in both images with a red oval. Which one shows the real size of South Island as compared to the rest of the globe?
Dig deeper, T8.
T8: It doesn’t actually necessity say that. It says this:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
On day 4, this happened.
“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.”
See that? The lights could easily have been created as part of the heavens, and at a certain period of time later (day4 as you say), these lights were visible through the vault…
You left out the rest of the passage…
And it was so.
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
Get it? In the part of the passage you quoted, God said, “Let there be…” Of course that would be an odd thing for God to say if these things already existed, right? Then the part you left out says, “And it was so”, indicating that God speaking the words “Let there be lights…” brought those very lights into existence. Then the next verses make if clear that God MADE (how many?) TWO (two what?) LIGHTS. (Not one light and one rock that light bounces off of, but TWO LIGHTS.) And then, after making these two great lights and the stars, God SET THEM IN THE FIRMAMENT. And after setting these two great lights and the stars in the firmament, God SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD. And on what day did ALL OF THESE THINGS happen? The FOURTH DAY, right?
So just to recap, all of these things happened on the fourth day…
- God said let there BE lights. (Which means they didn’t “BE” before that time.)
- God MADE the TWO great LIGHTS and also the stars. (Which reaffirms that those lights didn’t exist until God MADE them.)
- God PLACED all the new lights He created in the firmament. (Which means they weren’t there before, and just out of view.)
- God observed these new things He had just made, and considered them good.
- And ALL OF THIS happened on the FOURTH day.
T8: But even if the sun was created at this point…
There is no “even if” here. It is what the scripture clearly, directly, and undeniably says. So let’s do entertain the notion that God’s written word is right about the sun being created on day four. What happens to the rest of the worldview you learned from your high priests of scientism then? Could that worldview even exist if it was accepted that the earth existed BEFORE the sun did?
(I’ll leave the rest of your ad hominem filled drivel for later, as you have a hard enough time addressing even one simple and direct point.)
The Gullibility thread to me is useless. It doesn’t serve a purpose. I have always thought that questions are given before hand for many interviews simply because the answers are so perfect. That doesn’t negate the interview process, so long as the answers are honest. Prime time TV would surely have figured out by now that you get a better interview if you are aware of the questions being asked beforehand.
And as for Hawking selecting HIS answer to a question in one click, well how hard would that be to set up? And are the questions and answers live? Yes.
A pointless debate, unless you want to enlighten me to a useful point you are going to make.
Easy to replicate, although Google Earth wants to force its angles when you drag the mouse.
ISS has now crossed NZ South Island and they get this view, but the camera is obviously using a zoom.
Here is the view from roughly the same altitude.
Zooming in from here means losing altitude in Google Earth to simulate the zoom lense. Pretty sure the angle is not right, but in the too hard basket for now using Google Earth. The thing is Mike, unless the ISS took a shot through a glass floor, then it is going to be a side on view. The first shot is from the other coast of NZ and even then you can see mountains side on. So zooming in from a side view will give you what? A side view of the mountains right? Remember, you can see the shots are not taken looking directly below.
Now that this is wrapped up, I open it back to you if you have any other questions on the ISS photos?
You left out the rest of the passage…
And it was so.
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.As you already know, I am not adverse to the sun being created on day 4 with the Earth already existing. Astronomers already know that not all planets have suns and wandering planets do get caught up in the orbit of suns. Further, as any programmer of a virtual world will tell you, while you have laws to your virtual world, the creator of that world is not subject to them. Take the game Fortnite or the virtual world, Second Life for example. Those worlds can be created in an order that is not subject to what you see in the completed product.
That said, the rest of that verse can equally be saying day 4 is when the sun and moon that God created in the beginning now appears in the vault/dome/atmosphere. It is not necessarily saying that God created them on day 4, but that they appeared in the vault at this stage. We see similar language like this throughout scripture. Here are two examples:
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
So by your strict reading of the bible, the above verse means Jesus is the true God. Of course the reality is that the true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father because clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son. And who is the son mentioned here? Well the son has to be Jesus Christ right?
The bible often speaks about something it mentioned earlier and is not strictly talking about that which was last spoken of. We see the same thing in Revelation where you will see an example of your strict interpretation of the last thing being spoken of leading to people believing that Jesus is the Lord God.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
So now back to day 4 in the creation event. The only sure thing we read here is that the sun and moon (that God made) appear in the vault. It is not a given that they were actually created on day 4. We are told before day 4 and even day 1 this: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”. So the heavens and the earth were created first and the created earth was without form and void and it goes from there.
This happened way before day 4.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
Look what happened on the first day Mike.
T8: The thing is Mike, unless the ISS took a shot through a glass floor, then it is going to be a side on view.
The cupola, through which those photos are taken, faces down towards the earth at all times. It is, in effect, a glass floor…
That is the Sahara Desert. For you, it is a photo taken from an aluminum spaceship whirling by at 17,500 mph in a thermosphere hot enough to melt the aluminum it is made of. For me, it is an aerial photo from a plane or balloon that has fake windows overlaid on it.
Anyway, your bottom two photos make my point for me, because you could not get the side-on view in the latter without decreasing the eye height by a factor of 17 like you’ve done. But if you want to believe that this cat can zoom in on some mountains in the red circle area and get a nice, clear side-on view, I can’t stop you…
Oh, and just so you know, the shutters of the cupola windows are manually controlled by knobs on the inside, which means rubber o-rings are the ONLY thing separating the pressurized interior from the most powerful vacuum ever imagined by mankind. Rubber o-rings that have survived the most extreme hot/cold cycles you could imagine for 8 years without maintenance or replacement. And don’t forget the normal wear and tear from the mechanical rod that spins inside the o-rings each and every time they’ve opened or closed the cupola shutters in the last 8 years. You can learn all about it in this 8 minute video from NASA fanboy “Smarter Every Day”…
I love when he asks astronaut Don Pettit what happens if they get a leak. Too funny. These guys are supposed to be the brightest of the brightest… the best of the best. Oh brother.
T8: That said, the rest of that verse can equally be saying day 4 is when the sun and moon that God created in the beginning now appears in the vault/dome/atmosphere. It is not necessarily saying that God created them on day 4, but that they appeared in the vault at this stage.
Appeared to whom, T8? There were no humans yet. Are you suggesting that when God said He MADE the sun, moon and stars, He really meant that He placed them in the dome so He was finally able to SEE the objects He made on day one? Btw, “Let there BE”, “And it was so”, “God MADE them and placed them in the firmament”, and “the fourth day” does indeed necessarily say God created them on day four.
T8: As you already know, I am not adverse to the sun being created on day 4 with the Earth already existing.
I did not know that, but it’s good to hear.
T8: Astronomers already know that not all planets have suns and wandering planets do get caught up in the orbit of suns.
Astronomers don’t know anything other than what we know. Like us, they can only stand on the earth and look at lights in the sky that appear to run circuits over the earth like clockwork. Don’t confuse the things they’ve imagined with things they actually know. Especially when it comes to things they claim happened billions of years in the past, like wandering planets getting caught up in the orbit of suns or whatever. I mean really… how in the world do you think they could “know” any such thing? Seriously, T8… how do you think they could know this?
Anyway, that’s besides the point. Because if you are willing to accept the word of God over the word of godless scientists, and believe the scriptures that clearly tell you the sun was created on day four, then you have just shut down the fairy tales told by your priests of scientism for our solar system, right? Because no secular astronomer believes that our planet existed before our sun, right? So if you are willing to believe that it did, then you are willing to believe that the godless men of scientism don’t really know what they’re talking about, right? And that is a great start!
T8: This happened way before day 4.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
Look what happened on the first day Mike.
I accept all of that as truth, because the the word of God is my authority. What point would you like to make with that passage?
From 120,000 feet (20 miles) with a fisheye lens…
Looks pretty much like the ISS images from 250 miles, don’t you think? This one is 121,000 feet without the fisheye lens…
That’s what our earth really looks like from up there, T8. Curvature is only in the fisheye lens and in your mind. Also, notice the hotspot on the clouds from the sun. A 93 million mile distant sun could not make local hotspots.
T8: This happened way before day 4.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
Look what happened on the first day Mike.
Mike: I accept all of that as truth, because the the word of God is my authority. What point would you like to make with that passage?
Good. So you are open to the possibility that the sun was created on day one and that it appeared in the vault in day four.
You say fish eye lense and of course there are all kinds of lenses. I have a standard lense and a zoom lense and I am sure that astronauts and cosmonauts have different kinds of lenses. But the fact is a fisheye lense doesn’t mean the Earth is not a globe and when you see curve, you say ‘Fisheye’. That is not a good argument because it offers zero science and 100% opinion which is formed by this biased equation that goes curve = fisheye. That is like saying wet = seawater or heat = sun.
But the argument you make is not only 100% less science it also requires adherents to have faith in the idea that all pictures, videos, experiments, and mathematics that explain space and the curvature of the Earth as being fake. Then we also are asked by people in the FLat Earth movement to believe that Antarctica as a continent doesn’t exist, distances in the Southern Hemisphere are way different than the official distances etc, and eclipse disprove the globe earth when in actual fact, it is the Flat Earth model that has no visual model for explaining them..
What do I think about all that? Well I can honestly say that there are times you may be right. Maybe that pic is using a fisheye lense, but that doesn’t negate the globe. Maybe that one small boat did come back from view using a telescope (because it wasn’t behind the horizon), and maybe that one photo shouldn’t be possible under normal conditions, but normal is not everything.
It is the whole argument that is unreasonable Mike. While I have answered most of your questions to myself and haven’t seen anything to convince me yet, it is the whole argument that is preposterous. It is too incredible. It requires belief in conspiracies that are so big that they would be uncovered. It requires even myself denying my own experience of travelling around the Southern Hemisphere, and denying my country’s unique history with Antarctica which is perhaps not to dissimilar in some aspects as to America’s relationship with Alaska.
Even ignoring the whole ridiculous proposition, and basing the debate only on that which you have argued the most, I have answered these for myself. Part of a marble doesn’t disappear when rolled on a table it only disappears when you are not looking at it straight. Part of the moon can light up that cannot be lit directly by the sun because of second hand sunshine called Earth shine. There are many others that I have disproved satisfactory for myself. This kinds of leaves my photo and a few others, but I have already given explanations for these, but the honest answer is I am not sure which of these explanations it is or if it is one that I have not brought up yet.
But this is normal. I do not know everything about God, but I know he exists. I don’t know everything about the Earth, but I know it is a globe.
Hi All,
I have become convinced that the place we live isn’t at all what we’ve all been told. There is overwhelming observational evidence to support my conclusion, but let me just start with these…What we were told Mike was the world was flat and God was a Trinity. But as the saying goes:
You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
In time, we found that even though the mainstream church said the world is flat and imprisoned those who taught otherwise and burned people at the stake for saying that only the Father was God and that he was not a Trinity, these so-called indisputable truths were actually error and were exposed by great men of God who cares more for truth than their own lives.
Daniel said that “Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” and indeed knowledge has increased. I feel your mentality is that of the dark ages where superstition and suspicion ruled and truth and knowledge were shunned.
Mick…..You have a predesposed mind set, and are not able to except the overwhelming truth that the earth is indeed round like all the other planets are in our solar system. What this whole excercise clearly shows is, how a person can be completely in denial of even tons of proofs. You have denied everything presented to you here, by me and T8, and others .
This subject should have been cut of right from the beginning, it’s simply a waste of everyone’s time, I believe once a person a deluding spirit, they simply can not see the truth, nor can they except it, no matter how much truth is given them.
My hope for you is that God will grant you the spirit of truth Mike, because I do really like you.
Peace and love to you and yours . ……….gene
146 miles line-of-sight microwave transmission over water. There should be over a mile buldg in the middle and the receiving tower should be 2.7 miles below the sending tower.
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