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Gene: Mike… If you are “truly” seeking truth, you can’t if you have a preconcieved mentality that is polarised in a definate deriction. You will simple reject sound evidence that is contrary to you preconcieve thoughts. Another word you are not in the middle unbiased seekibg truth, so no matter how much truth is given from the opposite side you will never see it as truth. Because you are predesposed against it already. So the opposite side never had a chance from the beginning.
Can’t you see you’re describing yourself? For 53 years, I had the same beliefs about our world that you do now. I had the same preconceived mentality that you have now. The difference is that someone showed me something, and instead of immediately rejecting that evidence, and not giving the other side a chance from the beginning, I set out seeking unbiased truth.
Do you understand that? I am where I am now because I DIDN’T do those things you listed above. You remain where you are because you DO do all of those things.
Which piece of evidence from me or D4T did you actually look into before condemning it as wrong?
D4T: Have you considered the evidence that we can see much further than we should be able to on a curved surface?
Dude, show them the IR video you sent me. 🙂 Guys, infrared cameras are going to blow this thing sky high, since they can “see through” the haze and distortion.
Kathi: This looks like it could be very helpful here and now…
What? More CGI silliness from the dude who sent a Tesla to Mars, but outfitted it with cameras that only worked for a few hours? And then told the press, “You know it’s real because it looks so fake” ? The guy who perfectly lands rockets upside down on a barge that’s moving all over due to waves?
Why would any sane person believe such laughable nonsense? Even if the earth were a spinning ball hurtling through space, sensible people should still be able to spot the fakery of SpaceX, NASA, ESA, JAXA, and all the other fake space agencies. Especially when YouTube is full of videos pointing out each piece of fakery for the world to see.
Mike.
This is what is happening.
All evidence for a globe earth (which is huge) is either CGI, false mathematics, involves conspirators including some who claim to be Christian, or involves fake businesses involved in fake industries like the aerospace, airline, shipping, and cartography industries.
Then you have to assume that all evidence that is difficult to understand as being proof of a globe earth is actually proof for a flat earth. This includes all possibilities for eclipses, atmospheric refraction, and measuring true distances.
In other words, this topic is really just puree entertainment more than anything else.
PS, you say that some eclipses disproves a globe, but we all know it is just something you are misunderstanding. That said, how does eclipses prove a flat earth any way. It doesn’t. And a curved shadow over the moon and the Earth is flat? lol. It is impossible to have an eclipse in a Flat Earth, yet this is one of your biggest arguments for a Flat Earth. That doesn’t say much for the Flat Earth because it makes no sense. Further, I think LU has explained this topsy turvey eclipse to you. I haven’t really followed that particular subject because I really can’t be bothered wrapping my head around it. I am sticking to other certain things that are easier for me to prove like the existence of a continent called Antarctica or the immense amount of videos and photos of a globe earth and other planets.
What? More CGI silliness from the dude who sent a Tesla to Mars, but outfitted it with cameras that only worked for a few hours? And then told the press, “You know it’s real because it looks so fake” ? The guy who perfectly lands rockets upside down on a barge that’s moving all over due to waves?
Why would any sane person believe such laughable nonsense? Even if the earth were a spinning ball hurtling through space, sensible people should still be able to spot the fakery of SpaceX, NASA, ESA, JAXA, and all the other fake space agencies. Especially when YouTube is full of videos pointing out each piece of fakery for the world to see.
Mike, you underestimate what humans are capable of. Made in the image of the God who created all things, do not underestimate what humans can achieve. And do not underestimate what your country, the US, is capable of.
But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
Mike, you come from a great nation of people. A land of 300 million people, speaking the same language, and engaging in free enterprise. America is a world leader for this reason and I am betting your population which is similar to Europe is more people than the nation who built the Tower of Babel. Even my little country of New Zealand punches above its weight on the world stage. While it is a place of peace and beauty, it is seriously isolated and only has 4 million people. And given these disadvantages, Kiwis have figured out ways to be the world’s best at many things even when we didn’t have much of the world’s technology and products. You totally underestimate what people are truly capable of Mike especially when they are tying to solve a difficult problem.
If I told you the following, would you believe it could ever happen.
Imagine a man designing and building a motorbike with his own hands and crafting all the parts himself in his own garage with little money and scrounging material from a refuse yard. Then imagine that he gets a person to ride that motorbike in the Battle of the Twins in the Netherlands and wins and comes second and third in Daytona against the best of American, Italian and Japanese factory machines. That to me sounds way harder than millions or billions of dollars spent to perfectly land a rocket upside down on a barge that’s moving due to waves. Yet this story of the motorbike is true. The guy lived in a city I use to live in, Christchurch. His name was John Britten and there is too much video and personal evidence to say that his story is fake.
Just because something seems impossible for you Mike, that doesn’t mean it is impossible for someone else. It just takes great people to figure out how to do it and many people in the West have a passion for something and do absolutely amazing things.
Mike…Your wrong about me, because i am open to any “real” proof of a Flat Earth, but t h e problem is you have produced none. When you guys reject all proofs that anyone can obtain easely, the mathematical equations and tons of other proofs, as T8, LU. MYSELF, and others, have shown you clearly, what else can i conclude, but that you guys are predesposed to reject any proof that disagree with your false assumptions.
We were shot down from the get go, by your biased mentaity against any truth presented to you. As i said before this is simply a waste of time, because no amount of truth is going to change you guys, you will just completely ignore it or say “it’s a conspiracy”, but can give no explanation for any conspiracy theories.
Hey D, have you seen this video of Buzz Aldrin saying they didn’t go to the moon?
Zoey’s question: Why has nobody been to the moon in such a long time?
Buzz’s answer: That’s my question. I want to know… but I think I know. It’s because we didn’t go there.
This is a 3 year old video upload that caught someone’s attention today and is going viral on YouTube right now. I remain cautious while the truther hive does its due diligence… but wow, what a game changer!
Mike… that was an altered video BUZZ had a different intent to what he was telling her, which they very cleaverly edited out. He was addressing his concerns about why we have not continued more landings. That had nothing to do with the fact they did land there.
But AGAIN you can find anything to support your mindset, if you look hard enough. You now can’t even realize that was edited to fit what YOU PEOPLE wanted. AND YOU CALL THAT PROOF? ALL the while complete ignoring tons of actual vidios of the complete trips and ton of active space station constant viewing of our earth, readily available every single day.
We just had one the other day, do you also think that was staged? Man is there no end to your ignorance of truth?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
T8: PS, you say that some eclipses disproves a globe, but we all know it is just something you are misunderstanding. … I haven’t really followed that particular subject because I really can’t be bothered wrapping my head around it.
You can’t be bothered to look into it, yet you somehow know I’m misunderstanding something? Hmm…
T8: Further, I think LU has explained this topsy turvey eclipse to you.
Kathi and I have had a very good discussion about the moon, and we have both learned quite a bit of stuff we didn’t formerly know. For example, I now know how to dismantle the arguments she made without thinking about them, since we both went through the research/learning process. That is why I brought this topic here, T8… to get some sound arguments from the other side that cause me to look deeper into it and learn more about it. It’s why this forum was so helpful to me while I was sorting out the Trinity arguments from Jack and Keith, and the non-preexistence of Jesus arguments from Kerwin, Nick and Gene. When you have sharp people arguing the opposing viewpoint, you have no choice but to up your game and become way better acquainted with the subject – lest you look like a fool when confronting someone in person about it. But as for Kathi explaining the top-down eclipses, she didn’t even come close. She did some research, and parroted some words from mainstream scientism – as if those words actually explained the phenomenon. But they didn’t. For example, she brought up the claim that the ecliptic of the moon is on a 5 degree offset – which is a valiant post-hoc explanation for why the moon doesn’t eclipse every month – but has nothing to do with top-down eclipses since eclipses only happen when the sun, moon and earth are in alignment. So the claim that the moon is sometimes out of alignment just means there won’t be a total eclipse that month, and therefore her point had nothing to do with the total eclipses we were discussing.
She was unable to actually explain how the moon could eclipse from the top down, but claimed a sort of victory via “my misunderstanding” anyway (like you have done). But I was the one drawing diagram after diagram and even making videos, showing clearly that the moon absolutely could not eclipse from the top down while it’s setting in the west and while the sun is either rising or has already risen above the horizon in the east. And it’s a very simple concept to understand, T8. If the cause of a lunar eclipse is that the earth gets between the sun and the moon, then the sun and moon can’t possibly both be in the sky at the time of the eclipse. Nor can the moon be setting behind the thing causing the shadow, but the shadow is covering it from the top-down instead of from the bottom-up.
I have searched high and low on the internet, and cannot find one single explanation for this phenomenon. There are no scientific explanations to be found, because there is no way to explain it within the heliocentric model. But go ahead and search for yourself… maybe you’ll be able to find what I couldn’t. I even posted the question on Quora, to see if any cosmologist, other scientist, or whoever could explain it. Nobody was able to. A few came up with a quick mumble-jumbo answer, but when questioned further about it, they bailed.
So while you might think this is entertainment and not to be taken seriously, it is very serious to me, and I have been trying everything I can think of to get a valid explanation.
Gene: Mike… that was an altered video…
Gene, what is your evidence that the video was “cleverly edited”?
Mike m because it was broken and not continuious. Couldn’t you notice that, and the fruit cake that was recordibg it just kept comming back to that one little part, and never letting it run out to explain what his intentions were by saying that.
You people are just grabbing for straws, any little freak thing you can used, because that’s all you have, you are looking for needles in a hay stack, desperately trying to prove your “suspicions”. Because you have no “real” proofs, just supositions conjured up in a predesposed minds set.
This is a joke at best Mike and DIG4.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
T8: Mike, you underestimate what humans are capable of. Made in the image of the God who created all things, do not underestimate what humans can achieve.
Likewise, do not underestimate the evil and deception humans are capable of. You believe men are capable of sending space ships to the moon. How much more capable then are they of deceiving gullible people into believing they sent men to the moon when they didn’t?
T8: But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
They were building a tower to reach heaven, with the intent of passing through the windows of the firmament (through which the flood waters entered in Noah’s day) to do battle with those on the other side of it. Here is the story from the Book of Jasher…
21 And all the princes of Nimrod and his great men took counsel together; Phut, Mitzraim, Cush and Canaan with their families, and they said to each other, Come let us build ourselves a city and in it a strong tower, and its top reaching heaven, and we will make ourselves famed, so that we may reign upon the whole world, in order that the evil of our enemies may cease from us, that we may reign mightily over them, and that we may not become scattered over the earth on account of their wars.
22 And they all went before the king, and they told the king these words, and the king agreed with them in this affair, and he did so.
23 And all the families assembled consisting of about six hundred thousand men, and they went to seek an extensive piece of ground to build the city and the tower, and they sought in the whole earth and they found none like one valley at the east of the land of Shinar, about two days’ walk, and they journeyed there and they dwelt there.
Why such an extensive piece of ground like the Plains of Shinar? Because the base of a tower able to reach the firmament would need to be huge.
24 And they began to make bricks and burn fires to build the city and the tower that they had imagined to complete.
25 And the building of the tower was unto them a transgression and a sin, and they began to build it, and whilst they were building against the Lord God of heaven, they imagined in their hearts to war against him and to ascend into heaven.
26 And all these people and all the families divided themselves in three parts; the first said We will ascend into heaven and fight against him; the second said, We will ascend to heaven and place our own gods there and serve them; and the third part said, We will ascend to heaven and smite him with bows and spears; and God knew all their works and all their evil thoughts, and he saw the city and the tower which they were building.
They weren’t just building a tower for the sake of building a tower, T8. They seriously wanted to reach the firmament, break through, and go to war with Jehovah.
27 And when they were building they built themselves a great city and a very high and strong tower; and on account of its height the mortar and bricks did not reach the builders in their ascent to it, until those who went up had completed a full year, and after that, they reached to the builders and gave them the mortar and the bricks; thus was it done daily.
Can you imagine how high the tower was? It takes 2 months to reach the peak of Everest. How much higher must this tower have been if it took the workers a full year to get their supplies from the ground to the builders at the top? And these guys were walking on paved walkways, not using ropes and pick axes to scale vertical cliffs. If you paved a road to the top of Everest, anyone could make the top in a week. But it took them a full year to reach the top of this tower.
28 And behold these ascended and others descended the whole day; and if a brick should fall from their hands and get broken, they would all weep over it, and if a man fell and died, none of them would look at him.
The building supplies were a more precious commodity than human beings, because it took a full year to get them to the top.
29 And the Lord knew their thoughts, and it came to pass when they were building they cast the arrows toward the heavens, and all the arrows fell upon them filled with blood, and when they saw them they said to each other, Surely we have slain all those that are in heaven.
30 For this was from the Lord in order to cause them to err, and in order; to destroy them from off the face of the ground.
These men were obviously not hitting people of heaven with their arrows, but they were high enough to try, and high enough that God caused them to believe they were. Imagine that scenario on the spinning ball heliocentric model – where “heaven” is beyond the endless vacuum of space.
31 And they built the tower and the city, and they did this thing daily until many days and years were elapsed.
32 And God said to the seventy angels who stood foremost before him, to those who were near to him, saying, Come let us descend and confuse their tongues, that one man shall not understand the language of his neighbor, and they did so unto them.
600,000 men working in unison for many years? The tower had to have been huge. And verse 32 is for Kathi, because it echoes Genesis 1:26, and shows how “Let us make man in our image” wasn’t a God with a multiple personality disorder talking to Himself, but God talking to His divine counsel of angels.
33 And from that day following, they forgot each man his neighbor’s tongue, and they could not understand to speak in one tongue, and when the builder took from the hands of his neighbor lime or stone which he did not order, the builder would cast it away and throw it upon his neighbor, that he would die.
34 And they did so many days, and they killed many of them in this manner.
35 And the Lord smote the three divisions that were there, and he punished them according to their works and designs; those who said, We will ascend to heaven and serve our gods, became like apes and elephants; and those who said, We will smite the heaven with arrows, the Lord killed them, one man through the hand of his neighbor; and the third division of those who said, We will ascend to heaven and fight against him, the Lord scattered them throughout the earth.
36 And those who were left amongst them, when they knew and understood the evil which was coming upon them, they forsook the building, and they also became scattered upon the face of the whole earth.
37 And they ceased building the city and the tower; therefore he called that place Babel, for there the Lord confounded the Language of the whole earth; behold it was at the east of the land of Shinar.
So why would God even be concerned in the least about men building a tower on a ball earth? Wouldn’t he just sit back and laugh at them from His throne on the other side of trillions and gazillions of miles of space? This is a flat earth/domed firmament story, T8. So at the very least, the people who built the tower and the people who wrote about it in the Bible and Jasher believed that the earth was flat, and the domed firmament (above which God lived) was something that could be reached, and even broken through. So the only recourse you have is the one you’ve been using up to this point… Well, the people in the Bible were just telling stories from their own perspective, but they didn’t know how our world really is. And if that is the case, I have to wonder why you would believe anything they had to say about any subject.
38 And as to the tower which the sons of men built, the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up one third part thereof, and a fire also descended from heaven and burned another third, and the other third is left to this day, and it is of that part which was aloft, and its circumference is three days’ walk.
As I understand those words, the third that remained was the top third… and the circumference of the top third was a three day’s walk. A “day’s walk” in scripture was from 20-30 miles, according to historians. So the circumference of the top third of the tower was 60-90 miles… let’s say 75 miles. If they built it as a pyramid shape, that would make the bottom of the original like 300 miles in circumference. So you are correct that we should not underestimate what men are capable of – even to the point of building a tower to reach into the heavens. And we shouldn’t underestimate the fact that in many cases, these accomplishments are derived from purely evil intentions.
We don’t build towers anymore to reach the heavens… but we have undertaken other means to break through the firmament. This is the short version…
Towards the end of WWII, Hitler (who was into the occult) started sending many expeditions to the Antarctic. Shortly after the end of the war, the Americans did the same. And the Americans weren’t sending scientists, but large arrays of warships. Why? Shortly after that, the main world powers created the Antarctic Treaty, forbidding open exploration of the Antarctic region. Again, why? What was so important about a patch of frozen glaciers with no resources, no plant life, and no animal life?
Shortly after that, the U.S. began “Operation Fishbowl”, which was a subsidiary of “Operation Dominic” – where they began to explode bombs at high altitudes. Why? And why that name? Dominic means “of the Lord”, and so the operation was called “The Fishbowl of the Lord”.
T8, is it possible that during the missions to the Antarctic region, they discovered the firmament at the ends of the flat earth? Is it possible that, like any animal that realizes it is caged, they began testing the enclosure to see if there was a way of breaking out? I mean, “Fishbowl of the Lord” paints a pretty vivid picture, don’t you think?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl
Shortly after these high altitude explosions, Russia and the U.S. began a deep drilling race – where each country invested millions of dollars to see just how far down into the earth we could go. (Perhaps considering digging a hole under the cage to escape?) The U.S. gave up first, and focused their money and attention on the “space race”, but the Russians carried on until the temperature of the inner earth became so hot they couldn’t drill any deeper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole
And although we only made it a total of about 8 miles into the earth, we are so smart when it comes to our world that we know all of this stuff…
Really? We know all this when we have only ever drilled 8 miles? And do you see that small molten iron core at the center of the earth? They tell us that is the cause of the electromagnetic field that protects our earth from the harmful radiation of the sun…
But here’s the problem… any magnetized object loses its magnetic qualities when it is heated. Watch the first 15 seconds…
So the claim that we are protected by a magnetic field derived from a molten iron core is refuted by hundreds of years of empirical science that proves that heat kills magnetism. Yet they tell this story anyway, T8.
Are you at least beginning to see the truth that the things they tell us about our world have some serious problems? Are you beginning to understand that just because a dude in a lab coat tells you something doesn’t mean it’s true… or even possible? I sure hope so.
T8: Imagine a man designing and building a motorbike with his own hands and crafting all the parts himself in his own garage with little money and scrounging material from a refuse yard.
You’re kidding, right? How do you think the men who first built cars and airplanes did it? And they didn’t even have a refuse yard in which they could scrounge old carburetors and drive shafts. 🙂 I think I remember watching a Netflix movie about John Britten a long time ago… great story. Anyway, a man building a bike from scratch is something that can be determined (“ascertained exactly”, remember?) by personally observing the finished product. Besides, there is no reason for anyone to lie about such a mundane thing. There would be no ulterior motive for doing so.
But determining that a man built a bike from scratch when he would have no reason to lie about it is a far cry from assuming that the earth is a spinning ball orbiting the sun (which has NEVER been determined by anyone) when their are billions of monetary reasons and one huge spiritual reason to lie about it.
Stick around, man. Some of this is bound to rub off on you – even if accidentally. 🙂
Gene: Mike m because it was broken and not continuious. Couldn’t you notice that, and the fruit cake that was recordibg it just kept comming back to that one little part, and never letting it run out to explain what his intentions were by saying that.
Yes, the video maker played that one part over a few times to drive the point home, but he didn’t cut anything out. Here’s a different version that just let’s the interview play on…
Mike ….He explained what he was talking about and he definitely wasn’t not goung to the moon but why the space agencies stop going back. He was talking about the space program itself. If that is your so called proof, it a joke at best. Lol.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Mike ….He explained what he was talking about and he definitely wasn’t talking about not going to the moon, but why the space agencies stop going back after their trip. He was talking about the space program itself. If that is your so called proof, it a joke at best. Lol.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Here’s the transcript again, Gene…
Zoey’s question: Why has nobody been to the moon in such a long time?
Buzz’s answer: That’s my question. I want to know… but I think I know. It’s because we didn’t go there.
But in your mind, when Buzz was asked WHY we haven’t been back, his answer was to say we haven’t been back? So kinda like this…
Hey Gene, WHY did you buy a red car this time?
Well Mike, it’s because I bought a red car this time.
Or this…
Hey Gene, WHY are you a member of HN?
Well Mike, it’s because I’m a member of HN.
Do you see how silly that is?
Hey, I’ve been going back over the thread from page 1 and haven’t kept current but now I have 2 browsers opened so I can backtrack and stay current. By the way, I’ve been sharing some of the incredible videos that have been shown here with newly interested FE people.
Mike mentioned the infrared photos that are becoming massive evidence against the spherical earth. It’s true. See for yourselves!
Thanks for the videos, D4T! Infrared is going to blow this thing wide open, because with it we can make out the actual shorelines. Here is a screenshot from the second video…
The red circles and arrows are my additions. Notice how the visible spectrum shot doesn’t show the buoy all the way to the water, while the IR shot does. Notice how the VS doesn’t show the rocky shoreline, but the IR shows it wonderfully. Notice especially the red arrows, and how the edge of the island in the VS just fades into the atmosphere, but in IR, you can see the edge go all the way to the sea.
Imagine if this Chicago skyline was taken with an IR camera…
If it was, we’d be able to see the shoreline. And then we wouldn’t have to deal with people ignoring the fact that even the highest point of the tallest building would be 200 feet behind the curve if the earth were a ball, and focusing instead on the fact that the bottom of the buildings have blended into atmospheric distortion.
I have the new Nikon P1000 ordered, and am considering having my P900 converted to IR after the P1000 arrives in September. Right now I’m doing some research and weighing the pros and cons.
Anyway, thanks for posting those vids.
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