Flat Earth?

This topic contains 2,753 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  mikeboll64 2 hours, 52 minutes ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #831048
     Lightenup 
    Participant
    • Topics started 63
    • Total replies 10,307

    Mike,

    you said:

    I think that, according to your model, your position on earth rotated from west to east, giving the appearance that the moon was moving across the sun west to east.

    I wasn’t moving…my family went early to a campsite and set up camp around a picnic table and stayed there specifically to watch the whole event. You’re theory is not at all so. Do you not believe that the moon moved in front of the sun? The crickets came out as if it were dusk and then it was completely dark like the middle of the night but it was only around 1:30 pm or so, the moon as it faced earth was completely dark, i.e. NO LIGHT on the face of the moon.

    Regarding Gen 1:20, I believe you can see that there are a few words to choose from for each Hebrew word so you can’t dogmatically make a case for one word over the other. You cannot say that it doesn’t say what the NASB says. You must admit that there are other possibilities. Look at all the ways it is translated:

    New International Version
    And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.

    English Standard Version
    And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”

    Berean Study Bible
    And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”

    New American Standard Bible
    Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”

    King James Bible
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    Christian Standard Bible
    Then God said, “Let the water swarm with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Then God said, “Let the water swarm with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”

    International Standard Version
    Then God said, “Let the oceans swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures soar above the earth throughout the sky!

    NET Bible
    God said, “Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”

    New Heart English Bible
    And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of sky.” And it was so.

    GOD’S WORD® Translation
    Then God said, “Let the water swarm with swimming creatures, and let birds fly through the sky over the earth.”

    JPS Tanakh 1917
    And God said: ‘Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.’

    New American Standard 1977
    Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth great quantities of creatures with living souls and fowl that may fly above the earth upon the face of the firmament of the heavens.

    King James 2000 Bible
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    American King James Version
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    American Standard Version
    And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.

    English Revised Version
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    Webster’s Bible Translation
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    World English Bible
    God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of sky.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    And God saith, ‘Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.

    Out of all those translations, it looks as if only one leans towards what you want it to say. The majority of the translations do not support your view.

    Please address both of these two points before the lunar eclipse is discussed further.

     

     

    #831049
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,254

    Kathi:  Out of all those translations, it looks as if only one leans towards what you want it to say.

    Yeah… the literal one!  🙂  Kathi, let’s reason together…

    1.  Do birds fly where the sun, moon, and stars are?  No.
    2.  Did God create the sun, moon, and stars and place them in the firmament?  Yes.
    3. Therefore, do birds also fly IN the firmament?  Of course not.

    Any version that says the birds fly in/before/under/against the face of the firmament is a proper translation.

    Btw, here’s the NKJV’s translation…

    Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”

    Well done, NKJV translators.  🙂

    Oh, I just saw the Douay-Rheims translation on your list…

    God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven. 

    So now there’s three of them, including Young’s Literal.

    #831050
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    Mike said:

    Allow me to stop you right there… before you go off on yet another long diatribe of things you keep repeating or post yet another “everything flat earth debunked” video.  In the first of my posts that you ignored on page 117, I presented you with a GIF of what is called the “lunar wave”, or “lunar pulse”.  Did you see it?  What do you think it could be?  (“I don’t know” is an acceptable answer.)

    Then, in that same post, you told me that my claim that the moon is its own light was a “desperate answer”.  I pointed out that it is the scriptural answer.  What is your response to that?  Because it either IS the scriptural answer, or it’s NOT.  Which one?

    If that is legit, it could be interference of some kind. Interference takes place in the atmosphere. Could also be the video software. I know in Youtube for example, you can stabilize videos, but that does lead to a glitch or jump in the video sometimes. Could be heatwave between the camera and moon or maybe it is similar to the background radiation you see on an old TV set. You often saw that effect when you stared at it long enough which I use to do as a kid. I kinda thought those fuzzy dots where something significant in some way and found out later in life that was caused by background radiation.

    As for the moon, yes your answer is desperate because a large body that reflects light is still a light. It doesn’t have to be the source of the light to be a light. Example, Jesus is the light of the world and all he has is sourced in the Father. We are the light of the world and we are not the source of that light. Sad that some of that light would teach a flat earth though.

    Light travels and you only see it once it has reached your eyes. The moon is a source of light in the sense that if it were not there, you would not see that light from the sun. And guess what. The sun comes from God. God is the source of all things. Yet we can be light.

    #831052
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,254

    T8:  Click on the image now. It should link to the original file.

    Thanks dude.  I tried to edit a post just to browse the compiled media files for this thread, but your photo isn’t among them for some reason.  They go all the way back to the ones I posted in my OP, and the one you posted of the Antarctic ice wall is there, but not Mount Ruapehu.  Anyway, thanks.  I’ll let you know when I make the video using your flat earth observation.

    #831053
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,254

    Kathi:  I wasn’t moving…my family went early to a campsite and set up camp around a picnic table and stayed there specifically to watch the whole event. 

    Your statement is accurate and true and scriptural. You guys didn’t move an inch. But I meant according to the spinning ball earth model to which you subscribe, you moved a couple hundred miles during the event of the eclipse – because the ground on which you stood moved that much.  Nearer to clearer now?

    #831054
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,254

    T8:  Another method (I think) is to attach another file somewhere, and it seems that your attachments will reappear in the first post. Is that correct though? I am not 100% sure how you accumulated all attachments in the first post, but you would know.

    I’m quite sure I don’t know!  😀  They just attach wherever and whenever they want to.  For example, your Mount Ruapehu is now attached to the OP, and I didn’t do anything with it.  Sometimes they attach to the next three posts after I insert them in one post.  Sometimes they attach to the OP.  Not all of them, just the ones that want to I guess.  🙂

    #831055
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,254

    Hey T8, thanks for your direct answers.  I’ll get to them tomorrow, but please don’t forget this one that you left out…

    Mike:  Jehovah told us that He created two lights – the greater to govern the day, and the lesser to govern the night.

    T8:  There you go being literal again and assuming that which is not written.

    Mike:  Which part of my blue words above is not written?

    What is your answer to that very simple question?

    #831059
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    Okay Mike, I will play around with the words a bit more to suit.
    The moon is literally a light, but not the source of that light.

    Are you the light of the world? Is Jesus the light of the world? Are either the source of light?

    God is light.

    Obviously you can be light, while still not being the source of that light.

    The moon is a lesser light simply because it reflects the sun’s light. Your version is the moon is a machine of some kind. Show me the proof.

    And how is it that you can shine a laser on the moon and have it reflect back?

    Ringed by footprints, sitting in the moondust, lies a 2-foot wide panel studded with 100 mirrors pointing at Earth: the “lunar laser ranging retroreflector array.” Apollo 11 astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong put it there on July 21, 1969, about an hour before the end of their final moonwalk.

    #831062
     Admin 
    Keymaster
    • Topics started 92
    • Total replies 1,287

    I’m quite sure I don’t know! 😀 They just attach wherever and whenever they want to. For example, your Mount Ruapehu is now attached to the OP, and I didn’t do anything with it. Sometimes they attach to the next three posts after I insert them in one post. Sometimes they attach to the OP. Not all of them, just the ones that want to I guess. 🙂

    Ah, thanks for that. I suspect then that they attach to all the posts that you apply an attachment, maybe because you are the author of the topic. If ‘Add Media’ was working, then it wouldn’t be so much of an issue because attachments are meant for documents, spreadsheets, and things you cannot embed into the post.

    #831063
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    Perspective should not be ignored

    Mike, my answer to many of your questions is the same answer. Perspective.

    The sun rises and sets, as well as circuits overhead as does the moon. The earth is flat from our perspective and far away objects get smaller when in reality are not. It’s perspective and God speaks to us not only through our own limited language, but also from our perspective a lot of the time. Simple as that.

    From God’s perspective, the universe could well revolve around him as he should be at the centre, not us. And who knows how many worlds he has created. He is above, not below in his perspective. And we know he can reside in all things, so his spirit may be the centre of every atom. We are not the centre and neither are we above. We are the footstool compared with his heaven and I am sure he can see all things at once. Just know that we can enter heaven if we are redeemed, so I expect that things would look different once there.

    #831064
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    God created two lights

    If you require an even simpler answer then try this.

    God created two lights. It doesn’t say that God created two lights that generate light themselves.

    He said a greater and a lesser.

    We know that God is greater because he is the source and we are images and lesser.

    We are not told the nature of each body apart from the fact that both are lights which they are.

    A full moon certainly lights up the night somewhat compared to no moon for example.

    The verse is too simple to apply an exact nature to these lights, only that light comes from both.

    Who know, maybe the sun is a gateway to the heavens and the light actually comes from there.

    You have to keep an open mind when you read a simple statement. In other words there is not enough detail to go into detail about.

    #831065
     Lightenup 
    Participant
    • Topics started 63
    • Total replies 10,307

    Mike,

    you said:

     Do birds fly where the sun, moon, and stars are?  No.

    Did God create the sun, moon, and stars and place them in the firmament?  Yes

    Therefore, do birds also fly IN the firmament?  Of course not

    my response:

    The birds do not fly as high as the sun, moon and stars, true.

    God created and the sun, moon and the stars and placed them in the expanse/firmament, true.

    Birds DO fly in the expanse/firmament. The expanse stretches from the earth to the end of outer space wherever that is.

    Mike, God called the “raqia” “shamayim” therefore…raqia = shamayim (Gen 1:8). Now all I have to do is show you that birds fly IN the shamayim and this discussion is over and you need to admit that birds do indeed fly IN the firmament/expanse/raqia/shamayim.

    Proverbs 30:19

    New International Version
    the way of an eagle in the sky (shamayim), the way of a snake on a rock, the way of a ship on the high seas, and the way of a man with a young woman.

    New Living Translation
    how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman.

    English Standard Version
    the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a serpent on a rock, the way of a ship on the high seas, and the way of a man with a virgin.

    Berean Study Bible
    the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a snake on a rock, the way of a ship at sea, and the way of a man with a maiden.

    New American Standard Bible
    The way of an eagle in the sky, The way of a serpent on a rock, The way of a ship in the middle of the sea, And the way of a man with a maid.

    King James Bible
    The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

    Christian Standard Bible
    the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a snake on a rock, the way of a ship at sea, and the way of a man with a young woman.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a snake on a rock, the way of a ship at sea, and the way of a man with a young woman.

    International Standard Version
    The way an eagle flies in the sky, the way of a serpent on a rock, the way of a ship on the high seas, and the way of a man with a young woman.

    NET Bible
    the way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a snake on a rock, the way of a ship in the sea, and the way of a man with a woman.

    New Heart English Bible
    The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent on a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maiden.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    The way of an eagle in the sky, the way of the snake upon a rock, the way of the ship in the heart of the sea and the way of a man in his youth.

    JPS Tanakh 1917
    The way of an eagle in the air; The way of a serpent upon a rock; The way of a ship in the midst of the sea; And the way of a man with a young woman.

    New American Standard 1977
    The way of an eagle in the sky, The way of a serpent on a rock, The way of a ship in the middle of the sea, And the way of a man with a maid.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    The track of the eagle in the air; the track of the serpent upon the rock; the track of the ship in the midst of the sea; and the track of the man in the maid.

    King James 2000 Bible
    The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maiden.

    American King James Version
    The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent on a rock; the way of a ship in the middle of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

    American Standard Version
    The way of an eagle in the air; The way of a serpent upon a rock; The way of a ship in the midst of the sea; And the way of a man with a maiden.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    The way of an eagle in the air, the way of a serpent upon a rock, the way of a ship in the midst of the sea, and the way of a man in youth.

    Darby Bible Translation
    The way of an eagle in the heavens, the way of a serpent upon a rock, the way of a ship in the midst of the sea, and the way of a man with a maid.

    English Revised Version
    The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

    Webster’s Bible Translation
    The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

    World English Bible
    The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent on a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maiden.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    The way of the eagle in the heavens, The way of a serpent on a rock, The way of a ship in the heart of the sea, And the way of a man in youth.

    Mike, please admit that the eagle flies in the raqia which is called shamayim according to Proverbs 30:19.

     

    #831066
     Lightenup 
    Participant
    • Topics started 63
    • Total replies 10,307

    t8 and Mike,

    If the moon had its own light, an eclipse would not be able to take it away but when the moon is fully in the solar eclipse or fully in the lunar eclipse stage, the moon’s surface that faces the earth is completely dark for a relatively short time.

    #831071
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    I think Mike is just going to say something along the lines of a power cut or the moon is rebooting.

    #831072
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    Explain this Flat Earthers

    I have watched a series of videos that debunk the Flat Earth. The fifth video has some questions for Flat Earthers that I would like Mike to attempt answering, while I am looking for some answers to his questions. I posted these videos a few pages back, but added in the latter videos later on upon watching them first, so they may have been missed. So reposting them here. Just try to ignore the insulting tone of the videos and focus on the science and math.

    1)

    2)

    3)

    4)

    5)

    #831074
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    The above videos pretty much wraps up the debate IMO.

    Does anyone want to disprove the arguments made in them.

    If not, then this is enough proof for me that the Earth is a sphere and not a disk.

    What about you Mike and Dig?

    #831129
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    The sad part about this is the fact that this guy associates this and other conspiracies with Christians and the Bible, when most Christians do not believe this stuff at all. It is a bad witness IMO. I noticed another video from this guy debunking afterlife experiences. This is an example of how foolishness has unintended consequences.

    Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?

    As followers of Christ, we should of course believe scripture, but remain open to new discoveries too. Scripture is not written as a full scientific document anyway, it is very brief allowing for many options in between the main points with even the main points having a number of possible variations. Be open minded and teachable. Clearly we are told that knowledge shall increase. Acting in an ignorant way and remaining stubborn on one’s scientific views taken from one’s own view of some brief verses in scripture is foolish when it stops you from changing your mind on things once discovered. At this point you have become an ignoramus in their eyes and your gospel as worthless. Sir Isaac Newton, arguably the greatest scientist of all time invented the scientific method and yet devoted more time to reading and studying scripture than studying science alone.

    It’s not like Evolution which is a theory and we can agree is just plain wrong for a ton of reasons. The Globe Earth is the only model that makes mathematical sense, and there is lots of observational evidence too. Once we who are the light subscribe to a Flat Earth and the reason given is because the Bible, that paints the Bible in poor light and it reflects badly on all Christians for believing that book. We need to be wise people. There are souls out there that do not know God and some of them have been given a good reason to reject the gospel because ‘the Bible’. Sad.

    #831131
     Dig4truth 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 454

    T8: “The above videos pretty much wraps up the debate IMO. Does anyone want to disprove the arguments made in them. If not, then this is enough proof for me that the Earth is a sphere and not a disk.”

     

    Do you mean call everyone that thinks different than you a retard and then shut down the debate? If that’s the point then no, it ain’t over.

    Did the guy once mention that it is an equidistant map? No. Did he treat it like one or do calculations like it was one? Nope. Can you say strawman? Sure, I knew you could.

    Can you put those arguments into your own words, kind of like the point of this debate; what can you see and discern for yourself.

    Look, it’s really simple guys. In order for the earth to be a sphere it has to have a curve. However, when we try to find it, it just isn’t there. Maybe start there.

     

     

    #831136
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 903
    • Total replies 18,820

    Pay attention Dig. I said to ignore the insults and focus on the math and science he is producing. Believe me, if there was a more civil video series showing these facts, I would have shown that instead. The truth, math, and science doesn’t care about your feelings. Truth is true no matter how we feel about it.

    But you want to start again, wipe these facts away and debate from the ground up from our own experience. But that is a very narrow view of the world Dig. Further, we are not really well equipped to overrule science given our lack of budget and time, not to mention education.

    Of course there is merit to checking things out from our perspective as that is basically what you are saying. But I find that a bit ironic too as perspective was pretty much ruled out by Mike and he preferred literal. These videos are literal. Can you counter the arguments he makes or not?

    To see the curve of the Earth takes way more than little experiments in our flat earth experience of this globe. But sure, while I believe the war is won, we can contend in smaller battles from our own perspective and bring these into truth too.

    #831139
     Dig4truth 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 454

    T8: “To see the curve of the Earth takes way more than little experiments in our flat earth experience of this globe. But sure, while I believe the war is won, we can contend in smaller battles from our own perspective and bring these into truth too.”

     

    You said “focus on the math“. OK, the curve should be able to be calculated then, right? The globalist’s math says that it is 8″ per mile squared. That means in 1 mile it is 8″ and in two miles it is 32″ and in three miles it is 6 feet or 72”! That’s the math – DO YOU DISPUTE IT?

    If not then we can or should be able to observe the curve. We don’t. Why?

    Where is the curve?

Viewing 20 posts - 1,821 through 1,840 (of 2,754 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2019 Heaven Net

or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account