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A message for Mike and Dig
I know that being adept at science is not a prerequisite of salvation, but I think if you are going to teach science and merge it with scripture, you at least have to know about perspective. If you just accept that what you see from your perspective as truth and nothing else, then you are just plain ignorant. Your view is fickle. You might say a movie is really good and recommend it and your friend then says that it was not good at all. We all see differently, and anything we describe even when biblical authors describe things, they are using a limited language of the time that doesn’t have words for the things they see and they do their best using words and idioms from their cultural and scientific perspective at the time.
An example would be a prophet who has a vision of a future war where helicopters are present. He might say they are locusts with heads of men, chests like iron breastplates, and the sound of their wings are like many chariots going to battle. Of course he is not going to use modern terminology so you need to think deeply about it.
I know I have seen visions in my lifetime and tried to understand them, but a couple of decades later and the understanding becomes apparent or clearer. So visions from 2000 years ago need to be understood from the authors culture, language, and perspective.
If you cannot understand this, then you will foolishly apply your own language and understanding of the world you see around you. An example of this is those who think the Biblical Antichrist will be an American president or the Beast as being America. They are so American centric and full of self-importance that they think the Bible is talking about them or their country.
My advice is this. If you are not good at science, then do not teach it lest you become a false teacher. If you are not good at math, then don’t teach it. Know your own limitations.
If the stars fall from heaven or the sun sets or rises, then don’t be foolish and say it is always literally that exact thing, rather think about what the author is trying to communicate. After all, we are told to study the Word of God. Not just read it and parrot it and take everything literally.
Be wise.
Again… what does it mean that God opened the windows of the firmament to let the waters above flood the earth?
Again… if you had never been taught that you live on a spinning water ball, would you be trying to correct the scriptures with your own philosophies as you’re doing now?
Your explanations are the vain attempts of flawed reasoning that is beneath intelligent people. I, D4T, NDT, and everyone else can see that people like you are purposely re-interpreting the scriptures in an attempt to reconcile irreconcilable ideas. Tyson surely wasn’t the first person to point this out… and is among hundreds of scholars who have been doing so since Darwin.
See, they got you by the short hairs, and they know it. They laugh at you because they realize you’re stuck. THEY know that scripture and scientism can’t be reconciled. THEY know that you are either a Bible believer OR a scientism believer – because you absolutely can’t be both. And they high five each other every time a Biblical coward like you performs asinine mental gymnastics to work 4.5 billion years, or the big bang, or evolution, or a local Noah’s flood, or the heliocentric model back into scriptures – as if you can serve two masters.
Understand? Mainstream science laughs at your weakness, and true Bible believers are appalled at it.
After all, you do realize that your argument amounts to:
Well, the Holy Spirit-inspired Bible writers didn’t really mean what they said because Solomon once said his heart leaped like a gazelle. Therefore it’s all metaphorical, and God DIDN’T stop the sun, stars WON’T fall to the earth, Adam WASN’T really the first man, the earth ISN’T fixed on pillars, the sun and moon DON’T run God-appointed circuits across the firmament, and God DIDN’T open the windows of the firmament to flood the earth.
You realize that, right?
Yes Mike, he realizes it but cannot admit it because he wants to have one foot planted in his faith and one foot planted in scientism (so he doesn’t look foolish).
Here’s a thought, if people are right that the scriptures were written in a way to speak to a people that were ignorant about science then it would be obsolete to a people that did understand science.
But is that what the Scripture says? Does it suggest that Scripture is relevant until people catch up to science? No, it says it is eternal!
Do you see the point? Is Scripture only relevant to ignorant people? Was it written only for the “dark ages”? Or is it like the scriptures speak of itself; “Thy Word is truth”, “all Scripture is breathed out by God”, “the Word of God will stand forever”, the Word of God is living and active”, Every Word of God proves true”, the Words of the LORD are pure”, etc.
In the beginning God gave man dominion of the earth and the animals. He did not give us dominion of “space”. In fact when Nimrod at the Tower of Babel tried to access heaven he was stopped by God. Do we now believe it is ok to pursue that same goal? Has God changed? Don’t we know who the “Prince of the power of the air” is?
Wouldn’t it be better to spend that 50+ million dollars a day that NASA receives on our own dominion? It doesn’t cost that much to send satellites up on balloons for our communication needs. The rest could be spent to help the poor and needy.
Just some thoughts to ponder.
Great post, D! Well said.
For T8…
Genesis 7:11-12
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 8:2
The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained.
Who wrote the creation account in Genesis 1-2? Moses. How did Moses come by that information? He wasn’t there to see God create those things, right? So how did he know what to write? Obviously, God told him how it went down – agreed?
Now, who wrote Gen 7-8? Again, Moses. How did Moses come by the information about God breaking up the fountains of the great deep and opening the windows of heaven to flood the earth? He wasn’t there to see God flood the earth, right? So how did he know what to write? Again, God obviously told him how it went down, right? So it was GOD who told Moses that He opened the windows of heaven to let rain fall to the earth, right? It wasn’t a matter of a human being seeing some rain and – FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE – assuming that God must have opened some windows, right? No… that was how GOD told Moses to record the historical account of Noah and the flood.
So T8, what exactly ARE “the windows of heaven” in your heliocentric model? In what way could God have opened them to let water flow through and flood the earth in your model?
Again… what does it mean that God opened the windows of the firmament to let the waters above flood the earth?
It might mean exactly what you think it means. Just replace a glass dome for a dome of moisture around the globe.
Neither of us have an issue with a firmament, just that your science is limited to 2 dimensions.
Again… if you had never been taught that you live on a spinning water ball, would you be trying to correct the scriptures with your own philosophies as you’re doing now?
If you lived 2500 years ago, would you believe sun rises and sets? Yes. And from our perspective it does and we use such language to this day. But from a zoomed out perspective which is possible in this day and age, we see our perspective is caused by something else that is not intuitive from our perspective.
Increased knowledge as the Bible said Mike. Your limited knowledge coupled with teaching the Bible only serves to enforce a stereotype that Christians are stupid. You feed this viewpoint and help tar all Christians with that brush. Thanks for that.
But more sad than that is the effect this has on the lost. Winning souls for Christ is about loving people enough to give them the truth, not to give them dumb conspiracy theories and ignorance that doesn’t help them and turns people away.
Stumbling blocks are inevitable, but woe to them that lay them.
Here’s a thought, if people are right that the scriptures were written in a way to speak to a people that were ignorant about science then it would be obsolete to a people that did understand science.
Here’s a thought. Scripture is written for man and through man and the output is in a human language. It has nothing to do with a lack of science meaning it is error. If I say and event took place when the sun set, then fine. This language works to this day despite our increased knowledge.
No big deal, please move on.
the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Some speculate that there was a layer of water or moisture around the whole earth. This would explain why there was a warm climate worldwide and it explains other things too. Regardless, we know that the earth was different before the flood just as we know that things were different before the fall.
The Noahaic covenenant includes the eating of meat. Is that because after the flood there is less plants and deserts? Certainly, the earth changed and still changes.
The preflood world was different physically despite our time being similar to the days of Noah.
Wouldn’t it be better to spend that 50+ million dollars a day that NASA receives on our own dominion? It doesn’t cost that much to send satellites up on balloons for our communication needs. The rest could be spent to help the poor and needy.
Well money is spent on the poor and needy and money is spent on science which does lead to innovation and invention that helps the poor.
For example, many poor countries couldn’t afford a nationwide phone network meaning some people had little access to the rest of the world. Part of the military budget was spent on a computer network that gave rise to the Internet. Now these poor have mobiles that connect to the rest of the world giving them access to a world wide market. These countries skipped the phone network and went straight to satellite which NASA had a part to play.
Hi Mike,
This looks like “Flat Earth” evidence…
(watch from 4:35 to 5:35 time-line)____________
God bless
Ed JEd: Hi Mike,
This looks like “Flat Earth” evidence…
The Google Loon Project is indeed fantastic evidence for the flat earth, Ed. These high altitude military balloons (yes, Google and its parent company Alphabet are funded and controlled by the CIA – just like all of mainstream media) ARE the satellites that we’re told are orbiting in outer space. I did a video about them over a year ago if you’re interested…
There is a declassified military paper that is a debriefing by a Colonel of a pilot whose job it was in the 60’s to scoop these balloons out of the sky after a month or so – before the balloon failed and the satellite crashed to the earth. (Sometimes they don’t collect them in time, and they DO fall to the earth – as you can see in my video.) Anyway, this pilot’s job was top-secret because we the sheeple were supposed to believe that these things were like Sputnik – orbiting our ball earth in space… not just equipment strapped to balloons floating around in our atmosphere.
There is also a longer video – produced by Google – about the Loon Project, which goes into greater detail and tells how they kept testing different balloon materials and sizes and shapes. Once they came up with one that will float around for months, they built manufacturing plants that can produce 300 of these balloons each week (or month… I can’t remember now.) Why in the world would we need even ONE of these balloon satellites – let alone many thousands of them – if we already have 13,000+ space satellites orbiting the earth right now?
Well of course it’s because these military balloon satellites ARE our satellites. There are no satellites in outer space because outer space doesn’t even exist. You can also check out this interview to see how the Hubble Telescope is actually an airplane called Sophia…
And this 5 minute video (a must see) explains how the Himawari Satellite images are actually made…
The guy who made this last one has a series called “Faking Space” that is the absolute hallmark of the moon landing and satellite hoaxes. It is broken down into small 5 minute videos, and I highly suggest that you take a stab at the first couple in season 1, because I think you’ll be hooked after that. (The entire series – so far- amounts to only an hour or so of video anyway.)
Anyway, common sense tells us that there is no need for balloons carrying communication devices and cameras when the entire globe is bathed in thousands of space satellites, right?
Oh, and GPS has nothing to do with space satellites. Look into a communications system called LORAN. It’s been in operation since before anyone allegedly sent a satellite into space. All GPS is based on strategically placed towers – and triangulation between those towers to identify the location of cars, ships, and planes with sending units. It is the same way Google Maps works on your phone today… which is why you lose connection when you get far enough away from the towers.
And finally… how do they steer those balloon satellites? With a mile long tether. Google “spiders ballooning” and you’ll see how spiders can travel thousands of miles by producing a strand of silk that has an electrostatic potential – which they can alter to make them go higher in the sky, or descend back down to earth. Well the layers of our atmosphere is filled with various jet streams that move at near constant speeds and directions at different altitudes. You can check this out at Earth Nullschool… https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-105.00,0.00,248
(This site used to have an AE [flat earth] map as one of those you can choose to see the wind, wave and weather patterns played out on. But then a bunch of flat earthers started using it in videos to show how these patterns make PERFECT sense on a flat plane earth, when – as you can see for yourself on the site – they are just a jumbled up mess with no rhyme or reason on the globe projection earth. Well, the owner of the site removed the AE projection. Now why would he do that, Ed? When for years the AE projection was just one of the 5 or 6 you could choose from… why would he just up and remove that one map from his site at the time flat earthers were pointing out how much sense the patterns made on it over any of the other maps? Hmm…)
Here’s how wind patterns look on the AE map, as compared to the globe. Both are from the site mentioned above – obviously before the owner removed the AE map…
Is it really hard to tell which one makes more sense?
Anyway, let’s say the jet stream is moving east to west at 300 mph at 30,000 feet. They can change the potential of the tether hanging down from the balloon satellite so that it ascends/descends into that jet stream. Then the balloon will travel over the earth in that direction and at that speed until they decide they need it to be somewhere else. Well, at 40,000 feet, the jet stream is moving west to east at 500 mph… so they can use the tether to raise the balloon up into that stream, and head back to where it was before. This is of course just a dumbed down version, but I’m sure you get the point. By raising and lowering the balloon into different jet streams, they can “steer” it to wherever they want it to go. And they have thousands of them up there… when ZERO of them would be necessary if our globe really was blanketed with 13,000+ space satellites designed to do the same exact thing. I mean, just think it out… there isn’t enough satellite coverage in Africa, so let’s hover some balloons over that continent. WHAT?!? Why on earth WOULDN’T there be coverage over Africa when we’ve got space satellites orbiting over every square inch of the earth at any given time?
So that’s the long answer to your astute observation that the Google Loon Project is evidence for our flat earth. I’ll leave you with this 1 minute video of one of these satellites transiting the moon…
T8: Some speculate that there was a layer of water or moisture around the whole earth.
Ah… the old “water canopy” theory. Did you know that was another attempt by self-professed Christians to align the Bible with the lies of scientism?
The canopy model was developed from an interpretation of the “waters above” in Genesis 1:6–7 when discussing the firmament (or expanse).
From these verses, scientific models were developed and modified to help deal with problems that arose…
The proposed models have this canopy fading into history at the time of the Flood. Researchers thought it could have provided at least some of the water for the Flood and was associated with the “windows of heaven” mentioned along with the fountains of the great deep at the onset of the Flood (Genesis 7:11).
Currently, the pitfalls of the canopy model have grown to such an extent that most researchers have abandoned the model. For example, if a canopy existed and collapsed at the time of the Flood to supply the rainfall, the latent heat of condensation would have boiled the atmosphere! And a viable canopy would not have had enough water vapor in it to sustain 40 days and nights of torrential global rain.
https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/the-collapse-of-the-canopy-model/
BTW, in that theory, what were the actual WINDOWS (plural) OF HEAVEN that this water poured through? A water canopy encompassing the entire circumference of the ball earth and falling to the earth could hardly be described as pouring through WINDOWS that God opened, right? Now, compare your speculation to this illustration of Hebrew cosmology taken from the scriptures. (Note: This illustration was NOT done by a flat earther.)
In this illustration, you can see the vaulted dome of heaven that many scriptures refer to, and the WINDOWS of heaven that the waters above the firmament poured through when God flooded the earth. You can also see that this earth is hung on nothing.
So which of our views is aligned with the scriptures in this case? My view has windows of the firmament (which God called “heaven” in Gen 1:8) – that could be opened by God to let the waters above flow through to flood the earth. My view has the vaulted dome of heaven referred to in many scriptures.
How does your heliocentric view stack up against the “windows of heaven” and “vaulted dome of heaven” scriptures? And remember… it was GOD who explained to Moses how HE flooded the earth by letting the waters above flow through the windows of heaven. Was God mistaken?
Ah… the old “water canopy” theory. Did you know that was another attempt by self-professed Christians to align the Bible with the lies of scientism?
Pure speculation and nothing wrong with that because we know the earth was different given gigantism in living organisms at one point. After all, while we call this planet Earth, it should be called Sea.
Anyway, it is the FE that you should be ridiculing. Any nation or organisation can send up a rocket and get a video of the globe these days.
Why don’t FErs all chip in for a rocket equipped with a video cameras. Call it Flat Earth Explorer or something. Then when you have debunked yourselves, you can find something meaningful for your lives.
Start a Gofundme page. The sooner this embarrassment stops the better.
In this illustration, you can see the vaulted dome of heaven that many scriptures refer to, and the WINDOWS of heaven that the waters above the firmament poured through when God flooded the earth. You can also see that this earth is hung on nothing.
Hilarious. So the ancient Jews who didn’t believe that Jesus was the messiah are suddenly correct with their view of the scriptures regarding the physical science of Earth. Lol.
Anyway, turns out it wasn’t too far off. Just curve that flat disc to get a globe and the diagram is not far off at all. You have a firmament called an atmosphere that contains water and Hell is still below the surface.
As for the great deep, we have very deep oceans. Way deeper than the heights of the mountain peaks.
You either are able to accept new knowledge as it comes or you are stuck in old wrong ideas. Your choice of course, but people are free to see you as ignorant right?
Why in the world would we need even ONE of these balloon satellites – let alone many thousands of them – if we already have 13,000+ space satellites orbiting the earth right now?
Hiays Mike,
That’s exactly what I thought.
Always good chatting with you my brother ………….. Ed J
How does your heliocentric view stack up against the “windows of heaven” and “vaulted dome of heaven” scriptures? And remember… it was GOD who explained to Moses how HE flooded the earth by letting the waters above flow through the windows of heaven. Was God mistaken?
Real simple. There are heavens. Different layers of the heavens. What constitutes a heaven? I’m not sure. Could be atmosphere, space, and the throne of God that sits atop all created things and is the interface of eternity and an eternal God with a finite universe. The place where the river of life starts.
Could be that each galaxy is a heaven with other created beings living on other planets?
Who knows. The truth is often stranger than fiction. Look at this scripture:
“You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created till 8niquity was found in you.
We read in scripture how Satan is cast down to the Earth. So what were the fiery stones or rocks? Speculation of course but planets would be one possibility among many. Earth is a rock and so is the moon. Heavenly bodies that lack volcanic activity are called dead planets. The moon is like that as it is just a cratered cold rock lacking organic life. Yes I realise you believe it is a led light, but that is another conversation that I’m not interested in.
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