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Wow! Where to begin!?
Mike, thanks for the research on the phony video! I didn’t know about that but my gut was telling me that something wasn’t right. How desperate do you have to be to fake a simple video like that, or a simple hole in a “space station”?
By the way, I did watch the IR photography video. It was long but amazing!
The guy that did the laser test with his wife was cool, no pun intended (it was on snow and ice). I have seen this before, perhaps several times. His testimony is sincere and heartfelt and very moving.
I hope that LU can see the evidence that the video she posted was more propaganda than science and I hope she takes you up on viewing some pro-FE videos to see who is really telling the truth.
You know it really strikes me that we must decide who we will believe. Either the ones who have been shown – and admitted to staging (a polite word for lying) their videos or the Word of God.
Mike and I are providing evidence to support the Word of God. It would be nice to see others looking at it with an open mind and prayer. Some are comfortable in their “scientific” positions but as my father used to say; “If everything is coming your way, your in the wrong lane!”
My best advice is to look at the Word of God. It is not a collection of ancient goat herders that simply could not understand the advances we have made in science, i.e. “scientism”. It is the inspired Words of the Creator. Think about that one!
We all think that our time is all there is. It is not. There is eternity. And when you look back you will see that we don’t understand the past very well and we know that the future is only certain in God’s mind. That leaves us in a precarious position of thinking we have figured it all out in our present time. This, to me, is a risky proposition. We can rely on ourselves or other authorities but we know down deep that the buck stops at the Throne. Can we trust ourselves? Should we?
Trust in the Lord with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.Straight or curved seems a secondary issue. Whom do you trust is the key.
He told Gideon that there were too many men for battle! Seems like a bad plan but it turned out right. He trusted in the Lord.
He told Elijah who to confront hundreds of pagan priests. He told him to put water, lots of water on the firewood! It turned out good. But it was contrary to his understanding but he trusted.
He told Peter to throw down the net on the other side of the boat after not catching anything. Sounds crazy but he trusted. It turned out wonderful.
Whom will you trust? NASA, Sagan, Neil DeGrass or the Creator?
Before Elijah confronted the pagan priests he asked the people, “how long will you hesitate between two opinions? If the Lord is God then follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” But the people did not answer. How sad!
Sorry guys, I have been inundated with work in the last month. I’m hoping things calm down soon and I can return to post here.
In the meantime, I watched the punchline in the video above.
My immediate response is this must be possible to see at 30,000 feet. There is a mistake somewhere, but I have no time to figure it all out. The thing is a video like this and a photo like that, is not enough to outweigh the huge body of evidence for a globe earth. These are just misunderstandings. The only people who really care to search out things on this subject are Flat Earthers and they are simply not going to try and prove the globe earth where there is evidence. Globe Earthers or just most people have little to no reason to believe otherwise and so cannot be bothered checking this out and just trust that a mistake has been made. I suppose you could look at this like the Hollow Earth theory. Most people couldn’t care less about that theory because a photo here and testimony there is not enough to sway people to really look into it compared to the body of evidence they have seen in their lifetime.
In saying this, I can see that more mainstream articles are now addressing the Flat Earth theory because of all the noise the Flat Earth community is making. I just hope that people do not blame all this on the Bible because that will inevitably cost souls for the Kingdom. Here is an article that appeared the other day.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/10/heres-how-people-start-believing-the-earth-is-flat-according-to-science-7929546/Notice that the way people get involved according to the article is exactly the way you guys got involved, i.e.,
Senior author Celeste Kidd said, ‘If you use a crazy theory to make a correct prediction a couple of times, you can get stuck in that belief and may not be as interested in gathering more information.’
Marti said, ‘What we found interesting is that they could get the first 19 guesses in a row wrong, but if they got the last five right, they felt very confident. ‘It’s not that they weren’t paying attention, they were learning what a Daxxy was, but they weren’t using most of what they learned to inform their certainty.’
It’s funny that the facts are secondary but the people and their motives are questioned as a primary concern.
Yes, the Bible does have a lot to say about the creation and as Dr Michael Heiser has explained it does teach a plane earth with pillars and a firmament. Unless one is assuming that their credentials and understanding of the ancient Hebrew texts are superior to his the least one should do is take it under advisement.
Then there are the plethora of testimonies, many of which have been repeated on this thread, that point to the positive aspects of this biblical position. Unlike the claimed harming effect of a more biblical position it can be demonstrated that just the opposite is actually occurring.
Then there is the appeal to authority and the appeal to the masses. Concerning the latter, simply because a majority of the population believes something does not mean it’s correct (the path to life is narrow and FEW will follow it). And concerning the appeal to authority, unless one is unwilling to listen to the authorities in a particular subject like Dr Heiser, then you would be guilty of picking and choosing which information, i.e. “evidence” you listen to. In an ironic twist that is usually the claim that is made against us.
The facts are this. The globe earth has a ton of evidence. But flat Earthers simply write it all off as fake with no proof. Of course everyone can see this and simply laugh at the Flat Earthers for their lack of science methodology. And the little proof they rethink they have is simply based on misunderstanding. This is how it is.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and can confirm that the distance from Wellington to Perth for example does not match what a Flat Earth demands. It is arrogant to say it is this big when people like me who have lived in both cities can confirm that it is not 3 times the distance as you assume.
But what I have learned about the nature of man is he sticks to his beliefs even when proven wrong. It is why the world is full of false religion and lies. Because men did not love the truth. Rather they followed their own fantasies. I have observed this for years. Atheists do it. Evolutionists do it. Tritararians do it. Flat Earthers do it. They love not the truth, so delusion is sent their way as punishment.
D4T, thanks for that beautiful post – second from the bottom on the previous page! 🙂
T8: The thing is a video like this and a photo like that, is not enough to outweigh the huge body of evidence for a globe earth.
But it’s now a hundred videos like this, and a thousand photos like that, T8. And virtually every bit of “the huge body of evidence for a globe earth“ has been thoroughly debunked, and the rest has been shown to be nothing more than story telling and special effects.
You and Kathi couldn’t grasp the impossible top-down eclipse concept, but maybe you’ll be able to grasp this one…
Notice that the moon is directly opposite the earth from the sun when it’s full. Notice that the day side of the earth is the one facing the sun. Consider that we can only see 180 degrees from where we are standing on earth. Now tell me how on God’s flat earth can we see a full moon in the daytime? Let me add some artwork…
As you can see from the diagram above, I wouldn’t be able to see the full moon even if I was looking level across the horizon (not up in the sky) at the first sign of daybreak. Yet I took this photo of a full moon one hour and 36 minutes after sunrise…
(To be continued, due to data limits…)
Here is my meta data from that photo, so you know I’m not lying…
And this is what that would look like in the heliocentric model…
Can you see from the diagram that I wouldn’t be able to see even a gibbous moon an hour and a half after sunrise in the helical model… let alone a full moon like you see in the photo I took? Or is this just another case of flat earthers being the only ones willing to take the time to wrap their heads around this stuff?
T8: “But what I have learned about the nature of man is he sticks to his beliefs even when proven wrong. It is why the world is full of false religion and lies. Because men did not love the truth. Rather they followed their own fantasies. I have observed this for years. Atheists do it. Evolutionists do it. Tritararians do it. Flat Earthers do it. They love not the truth, so delusion is sent their way as punishment.”
Wow, that would put you in a very small minority of people. Such an exclusive group that holds the lock and key to truth. I’m impressed.
I would like to know more about this exclusive group that alone knows the truth. Is it the position of this group that says they believe the Bible but is willing to allow scientific “discoveries” to overwrite some of the biblical teachings that gives the edge on truth? Is it this flexibility that is unique to this group and thereby claims truth as a solitary prize?
I’m curious because I want to see how much of the Word of God must be compromised for membership. You know, that old biblical thing about counting the cost.
Thanks for your response in advance.
T8: The facts are this. The globe earth has a ton of evidence.
No it doesn’t.
T8: I live in the Southern Hemisphere and can confirm that the distance from Wellington to Perth for example does not match what a Flat Earth demands.
No you can’t.
T8: But what I have learned about the nature of man is he sticks to his beliefs even when proven wrong.
Unfortunately, that is true of the majority.
T8: It is why the world is full of false religion and lies. Because men did not love the truth. Rather they followed their own fantasies. I have observed this for years.
Now you’re getting there. The world is indeed full of lies and fantasies concocted by godless men.
T8: Atheists do it.
But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that we really have no need for the God hypothesis, right? Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are wrong?
T8: Evolutionists do it.
But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that common descent evolution is proven science, right? Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are wrong?
T8: Trinitarians do it.
But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that our Creator is a 3-person Godhead, right? Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are wrong?
Are you starting to see a pattern here?
T8: Flat Earthers do it.
But wait… overwhelming scholarly consensus is that we live on a ball that’s rotating at 1000 miles per hour, right? And that water doesn’t seek its own level, but trillions of tons of it form a curve – half of it upside down, right? And that rivers run uphill for thousands of miles, right? And that our layer of breathable air is somehow velcroed to this ball, and constitutes the only occasion known to science where a pressurized body of gas exists adjacent to a powerful vacuum with no barrier, right? Are you saying that the experts and their “ton of evidence” are RIGHT?
It’s like the old kid’s song… “One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn’t belong…” 🙂
Now what would make a person buck against the authority of experts when it comes to atheism, evolutionism, and Trinitarianism – but vehemently defend those same experts when it comes to the shape of the earth? Ah… somebody has done a little research into the former three subjects, and found the expert evidence to be lacking – especially in light of what the scriptures teach, right? I wonder what that person would find if he took the time to do a little open-minded research into the latter subject – especially in light of what the scriptures teach. Hmm…
And as a side note, surely the overwhelming consensus of experts and their “ton of evidence” for the former three subjects must be correct – or it would constitute a worldwide conspiracy involving billions of people, right? Yet you say the experts are wrong on the former three subjects, right? How did they get billions of people around the world to join this conspiracy of deception?
Hey D, glad to see you’re still among the living in the midst of the hurricane. I believe Kathi is also from that general area. I pray you guys and your families stay safe and sound.
Mike, excellent way to make your point to t8.
Yep, we survived what turned out to be really a non-event. A lot of rain and some moderate winds that did no damage around here from what I can tell. I do feel for the people who took the brunt of it.
T8: I live in the Southern Hemisphere and can confirm that the distance from Wellington to Perth for example does not match what a Flat Earth demands.
Mike: No you can’t.
Love it Mike. I have seen the ISS and your response is no you haven’t.
I have traveled from NZ to Perth and can testify that the distance is but a fraction of what a Flat Earth map says. And your response is again, “No you can’t”.Thank you for demonstrating clearly that evidence you disagree with is not tested, but only has your biased opinion applied to it.
lol.
Seen as how this discussion is more on the funny side, I decided to post this.
Actually someone is doing what I said Flat Earthers needed to do for themselves so that they realise what most of us already know. Perhaps you wanna hit this guy up and get involved?
lol, Dig. That video you posted doesn’t do the trick. So much refuted points that I can’t be bothered to answer them all.
There are plenty of videos that show the globe earth, but like Mike, you just apply bias and say they are all fake with no proof.
WHen scripture says knowledge shall increase, I guess it also doesn’t say that all would understand it.
T8: Love it Mike. I have seen the ISS and your response is no you haven’t.
I have traveled from NZ to Perth and can testify that the distance is but a fraction of what a Flat Earth map says. And your response is again, “No you can’t”.Thank you for demonstrating clearly that evidence you disagree with is not tested, but only has your biased opinion applied to it.
lol.
I saw the ISS last night…
I tried a video, but couldn’t get my new P1000 to focus properly on such a fast moving zoomed in object. So then I tried a couple photos, but shooting into the dark night sky calls for a long exposure, and I was hand holding the camera. So the apparent movement in the image above is just my unsteady hands over the course of a full second of exposure. But the point is that I saw a light moving across the sky – right where they said the ISS would be travelling at that time. Do you understand what I’m saying now? Did I actually see a space craft moving 17,500 miles per hour while orbiting a ball earth at 250 miles up? How could I possibly know such a thing by observing a light skit across the sky?
Likewise, you saw a light skit across the sky. How were you able to verify that it was an aluminum (melts at 1600 degrees) space craft orbiting in the thermosphere (temperature 4000 degrees)?
Same with travelling from NZ to Perth… how exactly did you verify the distance?
I await your response to the 3rd, 4th, and 6th post on this page. I’ve given up waiting for answers in the debate thread.
t8: “lol, Dig. That video you posted doesn’t do the trick. So much refuted points that I can’t be bothered to answer them all. There are plenty of videos that show the globe earth, but like Mike, you just apply bias and say they are all fake with no proof. WHen scripture says knowledge shall increase, I guess it also doesn’t say that all would understand it.”
I would suspect that you cannot provide any refutation of the points in the video and that is the reason you fain apathy.
It is always interesting when someone says something like, “there’s so much proof I can’t be bothered to respond”, etc.
If the motive behind such a response is not patently obvious then let me state my view on it. Everybody loves to make a great point or counterpoint. To state the best evidence either for or against a position is why we are here. So, in order for someone to claim that the abundance of evidence is too great to even be bothered by a response is well, rather suspicious to say the least. Is it the inability to choose the best of a long list of support for your position or is it simply a smokescreen to deflect the damage that the counter position has leveled? I’m thinking – smokescreen, because like I said; we are all here to make brilliant points either for or against a position.
Really, does the position that you know so much that you can’t be bothered to make a counterpoint seem valid? On a debate forum? Or does it rather sound like tuck tail and run? You be the judge.
Well said, D! I would also point out that T8 is going out of his way to point out that people laugh at us. He seems to be using “lol” quite frequently. I wonder if he’s ever considered that his hero scientists laugh at him the same way for his belief in a Creator. Of course, them laughing at him for his belief in God doesn’t affect him in any way, since he knows he has the real truth and real evidence on his side, and he who laughs last laughs the loudest, right? So he just brushes it off as their ignorance and their loss, right?
I wonder if he’s ever considered that we do the same with his ridicule, since we know we have the real truth and the real evidence on our side. Hey T8, your “lols” don’t affect us in any way. They only make you look too weak to actually address the points we bring to your attention. Because after all, that’s all we’re doing here… bringing stuff to your attention in the hope that it will prompt you to think for yourself and do a little of your own research. Because everybody knows you can lead a sheep to water, but you can’t make him drink.
We’re only here to lead sheep to the water.
lols
I use lol quite a bit because it is actually hard to be serious in some of my replies. It defies belief sometimes. So much evidence that the world is not flat that it is hard to know here to begin. And even when we begin, it is all written off in the stroke of a pen as CONSPIRACY and little effort into explaining it away scientifically. For example, without saying anything I can post these two videos to show the difference in the two beliefs. As you will see, it is all about perspective. You cannot say your perspective on Earth is universally true to all beings. Yet this is basically your argument. Your perspective is truth and all others are lies and conspiracy. lol.
Geocentric model
Heliocentric model
If you guys cannot see that you are the ones on the back foot and are the ones that have to provide proof, then I am just lost for words really.
I await your response to the 3rd, 4th, and 6th post on the previous page. How can we see a full moon in the daytime according to the heliocentric model?
I’m putting the finishing touches on a video discussing that matter. I’ll post it here when I upload it to YouTube.
Btw, the next time you try to show an artist’s illustration of the beauty of the heliocentric model, use one that conveys the impossible elliptical orbits of today’s heliocentric model… not the perfect circles of Copernicus’ original model. The perfect circles didn’t match observation, and so they had to adjust the model. In case you didn’t know, they’ve adjusted and readjusted the heliocentric model more times than you can imagine. And any philosopher of science will tell you that the more post hoc adjustments a theory needs, the weaker it is.
Did you know they even had to reverse the direction of the moon from the original model?
“They want you to believe that the Moon’s rotation is perfectly synchronized with its orbit so that’s why we only ever see one side of the Moon, rather than conclude the obvious – that the Moon is simply NOT rotating. Moreover, they had to slow down the Moon’s speed by 58,870 mph AND reverse its direction to West-East to successfully sell their phony heliocentricity system to a gullible public. I don’t think there is one person in many, many thousands – regardless of education – who knows that the Copernican Model had to turn the Moon’s observable direction around and give it a new speed to accommodate the phases and eclipses.” -Marshall Hall
“The Moon presented a special math problem for the construction of the heliocentricity model. The only way to make the Moon fit in with the other assumptions was to reverse its direction from that of what everyone who has ever lived has seen it go. The math model couldn’t just stop the Moon like it did the Sun, that wouldn’t work. And it couldn’t let it continue to go East to West as we see it go, either at the same speed or at a different speed. The only option was to reverse its observed East to West direction and change its speed from about 64,000 miles an hour to about 2,200 miles an hour. This reversal along with the change in speed were unavoidable assumptions that needed to be adopted if the model was to have a chance of mimicking reality.” -Bernard Brauer
Now you do.
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