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Hi LU,
I have no doubt that Jesus and the brothers were born again from above and all those who are in the Body of Christ too. We must all become part of the new spiritual creation of God because those who do not have the Spirit of Christ are none of his.
Hi LU,
God is one.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
These beliefs are basic understandings and sufficient for rebirth.
Mt 1.21 “And you shall call his name Jesus for He will save His people from their sins”
Hi LU,
You say Jesus is GOD THE SON.
Scripture never uses such a term does it?
Do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
Gene,
Gene, can you say that Jesus is Jehovah our Righteousness? Please simply answer this question directly.
Hi LU,
Jer 23.5
Behold the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous branch.
and he will reign as king and act wisely and do justice and righteousness in the land.
In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely;
and this s the name by which HE WILL BE CALLED,
The Lord, our righteousness.
Zech 14.9
And the LORD will be king over all the earth, in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
God will rule through His Son
So Nick,
Thank you for your questions.
I have a bigger picture now on the whole Nicodemus, born again message as I dig into it more. I think the conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus is about confessing the message in John 3:16-21 openly, boldly, in front of people, even the Pharisees. The story starts out with Nicodemus (a Pharisee) coming to Jesus when it was DARK. I get the impression that he didn’t want to be seen by anyone, especially other Pharisees for fear of what they would do to him if they saw him talking to Jesus. Then throughout the rest of that discussion, to the end of John chapter 3, not only is the gospel mentioned in John 3:16 but there is an emphasis of Light and mention of deeds done in darkness. I really haven’t connected John 3:16-21 to the discussion with Nicodemus before now.
Being born again is evident when John 3:16 is your belief…openly and boldly, without fear of what others will think. It is the confession that shows one is born again and during water baptism, the believer is confessing that…openly, in front of others. One cannot make that confession without being first illuminated by the Spirit to that truth. It is not about speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is a gift to some (not all) believers who the Spirit wills to give that gift to. Pentecost was the grand introduction of that gift. Pentecost was not the moment the believers were born again. We are born again the moment we acknowledge the general message in John 3:16 as our belief and are not ashamed. Water baptism is the act of obedience after one is born again which demonstrates our boldness to declare, with our actions, our John 3:16 belief. Water baptism is not an act to make one born again.
I am thinking that being born of water refers to our physical birth as a newborn who comes out of a bag of water. Then being born of the Spirit is when we believe in the message of John 3:16 as the Spirit illuminates us to that truth.Water baptism is symbolic of us being buried with Christ (going under water) and being raised to a new life in Christ (coming out of the water).
Read this chapter as one whole conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus. Pay attention to the emphasis on darkness and the Light.
John 3
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered,
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11“Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13“No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
Nick,
you wrote:
…and this s the name by which HE WILL BE CALLED,
The Lord, our righteousness.
Do you realize that the “Lord” is the translation of the Hebrew word “Yahweh” there? In other words, a better translation is that He will be called Yahweh (Jehovah) our Righteousness?
Also, do you realize that the Father is not ruling through the Son since He was given all authority in heaven and on earth after the resurrection?
Blessings, LU
Hi LU,
Yes it is all about the Father at work by His Spirit in His Son and the other anointed servants.
Nick,
Again…do you realize that the Father is not ruling through the Son since He was given all authority in heaven and on earth after the resurrection?
Hi LU,
Jesus had not become his Father God, the Lord, our righteousness.
Ps 2.2
The kings of the earth take their stand, and the rulers take counsel together
against the Lord, and against His anointed saying
’Let us tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us’
Ps 2.11
Worship the Lord with reverence and rejoice with trembling.
Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry and you perish in the way.
But there is only one ultimate Ruler.
Zech 14.9
’And The Lord will be King glory over all the earth…”
The Lord God of Israel.
Hi LU,
You would declare a division between the man Jesus and the anointing Spirit.
I thought you realised they were one in the Spirit now.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
So Nick,
You cannot call Jesus “Jehovah our Righteousness.” Someday even your knee will bow and your tongue will confess this, that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, to the glory of His Father.
Right now, your confession is that Jesus is an ascended human master, one who has ascended higher than any other human master. That is in line with New Age teachings. That is why you just call Him Lord and not LORD (Jehovah). LORD in all caps, Nick, means Jehovah or Yahweh.
Jehovah is the God of gods(the Father) AND the Lord of lords (the Son)….not just God of gods. You are declaring a division between the God of gods and the Lord of lords, Nick. The God of gods and the Lord of lords are united as Jehovah our great God. You must have both the Father and the Son…they are one.
Hi LU,
Is 42.
Behold My servant, whom I uphold, My chosen one in whom My soul delights.
I have put My Spirit upon him…
Do you recognise that this scripture speaks of Jesus Christ?
He did.
Lk 4 17f
Why would you make the servant of God another god?
Hi LU,
And his name shall be called Immanuel meaning God with us.
But he was never CALLED Immanuel as a man.
neither is he God our righteousness.
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
Hi Lightenup,
Jeremiah 23:
5Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.
6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.
This passage is saying the opposite of what you are saying as it proves that the Father is Jehovah. The scripture speaks of a future king, which we know to be Jesus, where Jehovah says HE WILL raise unto David this righteous Branch. Jesus is not saying that he will raise himself unto David a righteous Branch. The Father is saying it.
the days come, saith the Father, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (speaking of Jesus)
Or what you say,
the days come, saith Jesus, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (myself)
Paul gives further proof that Jehovah is the Father
Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, having been separated to the good news of God — 2 which He announced before through His prophets in holy writings — 3 concerning His Son, (who is come of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord; 5 through whom we did receive grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, in behalf of his name; 16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek. 17 For the righteousness of God in it is revealed from faith to faith, according as it hath been written, `And the righteous one by faith shall live,’
Jeremiah is certainly one of God’s prophets, God here is DIRECTLY IDENTIFIED as the FATHER, and it was the FATHER that announced to the prophet Jeremiah that “unto David a righteous Branch would come and be king. Jesus is the power of the Father to our salvation if we have faith that the Father fulfilled His prophecies in the MAN Jesus of whom the Father anointed with His Spirit, so that the MAN Jesus could accomplish the Father JEHOVAH’S WILL.
By calling Jesus “Jehovah our righteousness”, what we are saying is that we recognize that the prophecies are true, and that God brought us salvation through Jesus.
If the law, the Father commanded, could have actually brought mankind into righteousness then we would be calling the LAW “Jehovah our righteousness.” But as Jehovah knew that the law would not bring righteousness unto mankind He had a plan that would, it was in the MAN Jesus. If the law could have, we wouldn’t recognize the laws themselves as being literally Jehovah the ONE TRUE GOD, now would we? We would recognize that through the law Jehovah is our righteousness. But the truth is that our salvation comes through the Father’s Spirit that He anointed Jesus with and what the Father was able to accomplish in the MAN Jesus.
When we think of our salvation we think of the Father’s work that He accomplished in Jesus, by that work Jesus REPRESENTS the Father’s gift of righteousness to those who have faith.
Calling Jesus, who the Father made as the way to righteousness, “Jehovah our righteousness”, is not identifying Jesus as being the person Jehovah, but recognizing that IN Jesus by the works of Jehovah we are made righteous if we have faith.
Acts 17:30 the times, indeed, therefore, of the ignorance God having overlooked, doth now command all men everywhere to reform, 31 because He did set a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness, by a man whom He did ordain, having given assurance to all, having raised him out of the dead.‘
Jehovah the Father will judge the world by a MAN who Jehovah ordained, this was prophesied in Jeremiah 23. We have assurance through Jehovah raising Jesus from the dead.
Lightenup you are going to have to tell us that Jesus raised himself from the dead, to keep in line with what you are trying to make Jeremiah 23 say!!
Deuteronomy 6:25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Jehovah our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.
Philippians 3:9 not having my righteousness, which [is] of law, but that which [is] through faith of Christ — the righteousness that is of God by the faith,
No man except Jesus was able to obey all of Jehovah’s laws. But according to you it would have to be Jesus that made the laws that he then needed to follow. You are making scripture to be absurd.
Romans 3: 20 wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin. 21 And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, 22 and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, — for there is no difference, 23 for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God — 24 being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus,
Romans 4: 21 and having been fully persuaded that what He hath promised He is able also to do: 22 wherefore also it was reckoned to him to righteousness. 23 And it was not written on his account alone, that it was reckoned to him, 24 but also on ours, to whom it is about to be reckoned — to us believing on Him who did raise up Jesus our Lord out of the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.
We are to believe that the Father IS JEHOVAH, and we are to believe that Jehovah’s promise in Jeremiah 23 was fulfilled when JEHOVAH raised Jesus from the dead, and by that we are declared righteous.
When we think on Jesus we think that JEHOVAH has redeemed us through him, that through Jesus we have proof of the fulfillment of Jehovah’s plan to bring righteousness.
When you say Jesus is Jehovah you are turning a created MAN who was perfected through suffering into THE ONE TRUE GOD. How can Jesus be Jehovah who in Deuteronomy says created the law, if Jesus was NOT YET PERFECTED? How could something not perfect create the law? You are making scripture absurd. Jesus had to fulfil the law in order for us to have salvation, and he did so through the anointing of Jehovah’s Spirit, certainly NOT by Jesus’s own human spirit.
Galatians 2: 21 I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness [be] through law — then Christ died in vain.
Philippians 1:11 being filled with the fruit of righteousness, that [is] through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
The praise and glory goes to Jehovah the Father because through Christ (meaning the man anointed with Jehovah’s Spirit) we are filled with the fruit of righteousness.
The words in scripture of Jesus being SENT, is not as a pre-existing being having been sent down from heaven and turned into an embryo inside a woman.
When Jesus grew in grace and knowledge and was well pleasing to God, and the time that was ripe that God foreknew would come, God’s Spirit came down from heaven and anointed Jesus. From that TIME is when Jesus was SENT! From that time Jesus was sent into the world to preach the coming Kingdom of God, to heal people, to bring forth faith unto people to believe that God fulfills His promises.
Jodi,
you said:
Lightenup you are going to have to tell us that Jesus raised himself from the dead, to keep in line with what you are trying to make Jeremiah 23 say!!
Jodi, where does Jesus tell us that he was going to raise himself “from the dead?” I know that he said that in three days he would raise up the temple, meaning his body.
Are you referring to this passage, Jodi?
John 2
13The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. 15And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; 16and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a place of business.” 17His disciples remembered that it was written, “ZEAL FOR YOUR HOUSE WILL CONSUME ME.” 18The Jews then said to Him, “What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?” 19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.If that is what you are referring to then this is what I believe Jesus is referring to…the ascension to the Father, not the resurrection of the body. He raised his body up after he talked to Mary in the garden by the tomb. He told her not to cling to him for he was going to ascend to the Father. And then he was gone.
John 20
11But Mary was standing outside the tomb weeping; and so, as she wept, she stooped and looked into the tomb; 12and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been lying. 13And they said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid Him.” 14When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus. 15Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing Him to be the gardener, she said to Him, “Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you have laid Him, and I will take Him away.” 16Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher). 17Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” 18Mary Magdalene came, announcing to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord,” and that He had said these things to her.
The resurrection of the body was only one type of “raising” to take place on that third day. Jesus raised himself up after the raising of the body from the dead.
I hope that helps! It is a common misunderstanding. When it is pointed out to you, it is easy to see.
LU
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