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Terra,
Who says i was trying to say something OVER what Jesus said.ITs a very simple message and it means the same thing,
Your the over analyzer, over everything that i say and what others say.
be very careful of your judgemental nature,
The Truth is, i said that people can be freed by knowing the Truth,
EVEN THOUGH THEY BLIEVE A LIE, By telling them the truth, they can be freed.Telling them the truth about what they believe as the same affect.
This is what Paul did in Romans 1.
Pierre, stop harrassing people, and “act” like you know them, you are not working by the spirit, if you did than you would have understood and not judged so “critically” and understood my “intention” because the spirit knows my intentions.
There are times where you have good points, but when it comes to people, and who they are your way off base.
You come to spread violence and not truth, because truth brings conviction to the believer.
Its very simple, tell the people what they truely believe and they will see they believed a lie all this time.
This is what Jesus did, he exposed the false nature and than showed them truth.
You need to start praying for every single one of us, and if you dont than you should stop your judgments.
Interceed and keep your mouth closed,
Edited by SimplyForgiven on Oct. 01 2010,02:31
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—SF
do you really know me to be able to say what you said in your post??
you are challenging others,on words,
and you ask me to be with you in spirit ??
how?
either you talk truth or opinions .we do not need opinions there 7 billion people with an opinion,we looking for truth ,at the least i do.
wen you teach you open yourself to all the students scrutiny.
and wen it is not true then it is a lie as simple as that.
Pierre
Kathi, again I just can't understand why it is so important what the forefathers believed. Some are false teachers. They mostly are trinitarians, are they not? So why would it be important to show us what they believe. I rather discuss the Holy Scriptures. Maybe what you should have done is make a tread with “what did the forefathers believe….”
Peace and Love IreneIrene,
I know that you don't understand why I am interested in what the forefather's believed and if you aren't interested in what they believed you can choose one of the other bizillion topics to discuss. No one is making you pick this one and no one will feel bad if you don't post here. OK? You want to know if they were trinitarian, one way to find out is to read what they believe…right?From what I can tell the earliest church fathers believed that there was one God, the Father…one Son, the God OF God, and the Spirit of God and the Son and the Spirit are together worshiped with the Father. Centuries later on, this gets to look like a 3 in 1 trinity God but I don't think it started out that way, although the three names are often reverently written together.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 22 2010,12:51) Irene,
I know that you don't understand why I am interested in what the forefather's believed and if you aren't interested in what they believed you can choose one of the other bizillion topics to discuss. No one is making you pick this one and no one will feel bad if you don't post here. OK? You want to know if they were trinitarian, one way to find out is to read what they believe…right?From what I can tell the earliest church fathers believed that there was one God, the Father…one Son, the God OF God, and the Spirit of God and the Son and the Spirit are together worshiped with the Father. Centuries later on, this gets to look like a 3 in 1 trinity God but I don't think it started out that way, although the three names are often reverently written together.
Kathithe spirit of God the father is one the spirit of the son is in line (accord) with the spirit of the father,
so that the son always do and accept what the father does ,
this action always places the son in second place never in equal or similar place.if this is not your believe
Pierre
Pierre,
The Father is the one true God, He expresses Himself and reaches us through His Son and His Holy Spirit like the sun reaches us through the light rays and brings us light and heat. Why would you think of the sun apart from the light rays and the heat that it sends? The rays and the heat are both distinct yet inseparable parts of the sun. The Son is the radiance of Father, the Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. The Father, Son and Spirit represent the fullness of the one true God, the Father. Apart from the Son and the Spirit, the Father is not manifested to us. The one true God is the Father. The one true God manifested to creation is the Father with His Son and His Spirit, never apart from His Son or His Spirit. I worship a God manifested to His creation. The Son and the Spirit are always directed by the Father but that doesn't mean they are not part of the Father and coming forth from the Father and bringing the fullness of the Father to His creation.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 23 2010,21:44) Pierre,
The Father is the one true God, He expresses Himself and reaches us through His Son and His Holy Spirit like the sun reaches us through the light rays and brings us light and heat. Why would you think of the sun apart from the light rays and the heat that it sends? The rays and the heat are both distinct yet inseparable parts of the sun. The Son is the radiance of Father, the Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. The Father, Son and Spirit represent the fullness of the one true God, the Father. Apart from the Son and the Spirit, the Father is not manifested to us. The one true God is the Father. The one true God manifested to creation is the Father with His Son and His Spirit, never apart from His Son or His Spirit. I worship a God manifested to His creation. The Son and the Spirit are always directed by the Father but that doesn't mean they are not part of the Father and coming forth from the Father and bringing the fullness of the Father to His creation.
kathiall the qualities of God are visible trough is creation and are visible to the naked eyes.
Pierre
Pierre,
Matt 11:27
27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
NASUJohn 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASUQuote (Lightenup @ Oct. 23 2010,23:31) Pierre, Matt 11:27
27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
NASUJohn 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU
kathiyes God is our God and the son is Gods son our mediator
i agree with it totaly,the son is not his father and his father is not the son.
Pierre
“It seems clear enough that the Great Commission of Mark's Gospel has reference to the human race alone. There is the familiar story of St. Francis of Assisi preaching to the birds, but I doubt if it is really the intent of the original that the Gospel is to be preached to animals as well as to man, commanding them all alike to believe and be saved. If it is, the command has certainly never been taken seriously by the overwhelming majority of Christian people. So at least in Mark the Greek phrase rendered “the whole creation” clearly refers only to humanity, to human society. Nor can one suppose that Paul was including the world of animals in Colossians 1:23. This must surely be equally true of Colossians 1:15, for it would be ABSURD to suppose that the Lord is to be called the firstborn of animals and plants.”
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 11 2011,08:24) “It seems clear enough that the Great Commission of Mark's Gospel has reference to the human race alone. There is the familiar story of St. Francis of Assisi preaching to the birds, but I doubt if it is really the intent of the original that the Gospel is to be preached to animals as well as to man, commanding them all alike to believe and be saved. If it is, the command has certainly never been taken seriously by the overwhelming majority of Christian people. So at least in Mark the Greek phrase rendered “the whole creation” clearly refers only to humanity, to human society. Nor can one suppose that Paul was including the world of animals in Colossians 1:23. This must surely be equally true of Colossians 1:15, for it would be ABSURD to suppose that the Lord is to be called the firstborn of animals and plants.”
KJGe 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
Ge 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Ge 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
Ge 1:30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
Ge 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.do you not believe ;if men would listen to Gods word and apply the will of God that all of creation would not be blessed by that ?
it is like a thief who make everyone scare and wen he changed is ways ,all do not stop to be scare??
Pierre
The title that Kathi gave here is certainly not what She intended to be. I stopped posting because She was upset with me, because I said something not according in line with the Fore Fathers. I do believe though, that most Fore Fathers did not believe in the trinity. It was after the third century, which was a brutal and bloody time, when many Christians died for their Faith. They did not worship together. The Bible was not available like it is today. In AD 313 it was the Roman Emperor Constantine who issued an edit granting all Christians full freedom to practice their religion. And also made Sunday the day to worship, forbidding to work on that day.
In Ad 324 Constantine established Christianity as the official religion of his empire. It was known as the Roman Universal Church.
It was Quintus Septimus florence Tertullian who first came up with the trinity. It is said that it was his best achievement to Christianity.
Coming out of the Catholic Church I know what the trinity is. Three persons in one.
It is a man made doctrine and not of God. First of all Jesus by his own words tells us that His Father is greater then He is.
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.Then in
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.
Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
I do know that we have several members that believe in the trinity, however I feel that they should reconsider their believes. I had asked WJ once if and they do believe that the Holy Spirit is a person, then He must be the Father of Jesus. Which of course is not true….God and The Word of God are titles, both Jesus and His Father have other names. What makes me wonder also since Jesus is Gods Son, how they can say that Jesus always existed. Did your Son come about at the same time then you did? I don't think so. Otherwise He would not be your Son, and neither would Jesus.
Peace to all Irene
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,09:41) I had asked WJ once if and they do believe that the Holy Spirit is a person, then He must be the Father of Jesus.
Wonderful point, Irene!
Irene,
I wasn't upset with you, I just wanted this topic to reflect the thoughts of the ante-Nicene church fathers. I wanted to keep it separate from the members opinions. See?
Sorry if you felt bad about it,
KathiQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 23 2011,23:01) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,09:41) I had asked WJ once if and they do believe that the Holy Spirit is a person, then He must be the Father of Jesus.
Wonderful point, Irene!
Hey MikeSince you and Irene believe that the Holy Spirit is a “power” or a “force” and not a person then that must mean that to you guys Jesus Father is an “it”!
Did an “It” concieve Jesus?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,15:01) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,09:41) I had asked WJ once if and they do believe that the Holy Spirit is a person, then He must be the Father of Jesus.
Wonderful point, Irene!
WJ answered Irene's point a zillion times befoe Mike even came here. So Irene should have said, “I asked but I did not like the answer.”Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 24 2011,11:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,15:01) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,09:41) I had asked WJ once if and they do believe that the Holy Spirit is a person, then He must be the Father of Jesus.
Wonderful point, Irene!
WJ answered Irene's point a zillion times befoe Mike even came here. So Irene should have said, “I asked but I did not like the answer.”
How True!I clearly pointed out to her that the Holy Spirit took part in every mans conception. Her point works against her.
Just because the Holy Spirit caused Mary to miraculously concieve does not mean that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary making the Holy Spirit Jesus Father.
The Father did not “procreate” a Son.
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,15:24) Irene,
I wasn't upset with you, I just wanted this topic to reflect the thoughts of the ante-Nicene church fathers. I wanted to keep it separate from the members opinions. See?
Sorry if you felt bad about it,
Kathi
Hi Kathie! No, I really did not feel all that bad about it, and I know what you wanted, and I respect that now. I hope with the Ancient History about the trinity I was on subject. Good to hear from you. I also like to ask you why you never post on any other treads? You do believe that Jesus preexisted His birth on Earth, don't you? Also the tread that Paladin started the “Examination of the incarnation doctrine.
hopefully see you there….
Peace and love IreneQuote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 25 2011,03:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,15:01) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 23 2011,09:41) I had asked WJ once if and they do believe that the Holy Spirit is a person, then He must be the Father of Jesus.
Wonderful point, Irene!
WJ answered Irene's point a zillion times befoe Mike even came here. So Irene should have said, “I asked but I did not like the answer.”
Really, Oh WJ told me many times about the Holy Spirit, but I don't think I ever brought up the point about Jesus Being Gods Son, and therefore He existed after Almighty God and not always existed like you guys believe. And that my friend is so. All of Sons come after their Fathers. That you cannot argue about….That is a fact….
Peace to you my friend Irene
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