Firstborn of/over all creation

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,05:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,08:51) Hi 94, You say “That is how his body, and his spirit came down from heaven according to the scriptures.” Of course his body and his spirit were of a man like us. His anointing came down from heaven Hi Nick: Surely, he was a man like us in every way other that he was conceived of the Holy Ghost instead of the sperm of man, and by his spirit, I am not speaking of “breath of life”, but of the Word of God that he obeyed unto without sin unto death on the cross.  It is the life that one lives in the body that defines the person and either gives him life or death.  Of course, for life, one must first be born again. He said: Quote Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Love in Christ, Marty

marty and nick

so this makes Christ a liar

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Did your natural father gift his spirit to you at conception?
Neither did the Father of Jesus

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,10:20)

Hi 94, Did your natural father gift his spirit to you at conception? Neither did the Father of Jesus

Jesus was born and infant in innocence, just as I was.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
And so?
You were no different to him.

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,05:27)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,10:20) Hi 94, Did your natural father gift his spirit to you at conception? Neither did the Father of Jesus Jesus was born and infant in innocence, just as I was.

Marty

if that was true why are you now calling Jesus a liar

did you lose your innocence

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,10:33)

Hi 94, And so? You were no different to him.

He was an infant just as I was when I was born, but I was not the “Son of the living God”, but as it relates to my being a “manchild”, no, no difference.  He was born in innocence, just as I was, but then the scriptures state:

Quote

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I hope that this answers your question.  I really do not see what you are trying to get at.  Did I say something with which you disagree?  If so, what?

He was in his ministry when he was speaking to his disciples when he was saying that “the Words that he was speaking were spirit and they were life”.  He did not have any disciples as an infant, did he?  His body did come down from heaven in that he was conceived by the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary.  The spirit is the life that he lived in the body, from the time he began to live until he died.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,05:46)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2014,10:33) Hi 94, And so? You were no different to him. He was an infant just as I was when I was born, but I was not the “Son of the living God”, but as it relates to my being a “manchild”, no, no difference.  He was born in innocence, just as I was, but then the scriptures state: Quote Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. I hope that this answers your question.  I really do not see what you are trying to get at.  Did I say something with which you disagree?  If so, what? He was in his ministry when he was speaking to his disciples when he was saying that “the Words that he was speaking were spirit and they were life”.  He did not have any disciples as an infant, did he?  His body did come down from heaven in that he was conceived by the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary.  The spirit is the life that he lived in the body, from the time he began to live until he died. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

but now you say you are different than Christ ;what went wrong

Jesus did not got wrong even a 12 years old but you did

and yet you claim to be the same ;liar

[942767]

Hi Nick:

Quote

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Of course, he did not say this as an infant, and so, he must mean something else?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,05:52)

Hi Nick: Quote Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Of course, he did not say this as an infant, and so, he must mean something else? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

so when did it take place that he came

after his birth ,after his death

after he says what is written in John 6;38

when Marty

is your father also God and was the powers of God used to bring you to live as a human so that the will of God could be accomplished

you are worse of than a unbeliever

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,21:06)

Hi Mike: The scriptures tell us how he came down from heaven, and if you will read what I have given you, which supported by scripture, then the scriptures will refute what you said: “that he was sent from heaven to be born of the flesh”.

Hi Marty,

None of your scriptures refuted those words.  In fact, there is no scripture that CAN refute those words I said, because they are the God-given scriptural TRUTH of the matter, and are backed up by MANY scriptures.

Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,21:06)

His body, his flesh, was conceived by the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, and he was born of the virgin Mary and at that time “he was called the Son of God”.

Agreed.  He was also ALREADY the Son of God before God sent him into this world.  But I agree that the angel told Mary the child to be born to her would be the Son of God.

(Nothing there refutes the words I said.)

Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,21:06)

The scripture states that He was conceived of the Holy Ghost, not that he jumped into the womb of the virgin Mary from some pre-existing state, and then was born of flesh.

But you only consider the scriptures you think AGREE WITH YOU, Marty.  The others, you toss aside like unwanted garbage.

YES, the flesh man Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary.  But he was already existing in the form of God BEFORE he emptied himself to be made in the likeness of a human being (ie: “before he was conceived in the womb of Mary”).  Phil 2:6-8

He was already with God as the Word when God created all things through him……….. long BEFORE the Word BECAME the flesh person who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son (ie:  “before he was conceived in the womb of Mary”).  John 1

He already had glory alongside God BEFORE he came down from heaven, not to do his own will, but to do God's will (ie:  “before he was conceived in the womb of Mary”).  John 17:5

He was already created as the first of God's works, was the firstborn of EVERY creature, and was the beginning of the creation by God BEFORE he had to partake in flesh since the children he came to save were flesh (ie:  “before he was conceived in the womb of Mary”).  Proverbs 8:22, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, Heb 2:14

See Marty, these are the SCRIPTURAL teachings that don't align with what you WANT the scriptures to teach, and so you either discard them, or twist them to the point they become null and void for you.

But have you noticed that I believe the things you said – AND these other things as well?  So you're not posting things I DON'T believe.  You're not posting things that CONTRADICT the things I said.  It's just that I believe the REST OF THE STORY too………… and you don't.

Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,21:06)

And if he said, that he would give his flesh so that we could have life, and then defines that he is speaking of the Word of God that would be spoken through him as a man, then the Word of God was not spoken to humanity until he became a man, and specifically, in his ministry.

The literal word of God has been coming to mankind for thousands of years, Marty.  Jesus was by no means the first prophet of God to reveal the word of God to human beings.  He was the most important one…….. but not the first.

I don't quite follow your point here, but let's suffice to say that the words you posted in no way ELIMINATE the FACT that Jesus himself said he came down from heaven, and would ascend to where he was before.  John 6

Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,21:06)

Now, give me the scripture which states that he came down from heaven in some pre-existent state into the womb of the virgin Mary to be born into this world.

I just gave you a bunch of them.  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2014,15:24)

Quote (942767 @ June 03 2014,02:59) I simply believe that you are being a pest.  Like a little fly that keeps buzzing around my ear trying to get me upset, but I know how to handle these little devils. Marty my point was to show you that their are many question that are not answered ;and have to be believed by faith ,based on the information that God as provided us , it may be not spelled the way we would like to see it……..

That's the way I understood it when you first asked the question, Pierre. It is a good point, and fits perfectly into the current discussion.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,15:51)

Hi 94, You say “That is how his body, and his spirit came down from heaven according to the scriptures.” Of course his body and his spirit were of a man like us. His anointing came down from heaven

His flesh body was formed in the womb of Mary. Of course he already had a different kind of body in heaven – before he was sent down from heaven to be made in the likeness of a human being.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ June 02 2014,17:04)

If God did not say it, I won't teach it.

How about if your Lord Jesus Christ says it, Marty? Will you also believe it then?

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

Do you believe your Lord, Marty?

[942767]

Hi Mike:

You say:

Quote

He was also ALREADY the Son of God before God sent him into this world

You have to prove this to me with scripture before I can ever proceed with what you are trying to tell me.

How on earth can this be. When the scriptures state of him when the angel was speaking to Mary relative to the child that was going to born from her would be called the Son of the Highest, or the Son of God?

He was going to be called the Son of God after he was born.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,11:12)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,15:51) Hi 94, You say “That is how his body, and his spirit came down from heaven according to the scriptures.” Of course his body and his spirit were of a man like us. His anointing came down from heaven His flesh body was formed in the womb of Mary.  Of course he already had a different kind of body in heaven – before he was sent down from heaven to be made in the likeness of a human being.

Nonsense, pure speculation.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,11:13)

Quote (942767 @ June 02 2014,17:04) If God did not say it, I won't teach it. How about if your Lord Jesus Christ says it, Marty?  Will you also believe it then? John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. Do you believe your Lord, Marty?

Yes.

[mikeboll64]

Not speculation, Marty……. but scripture.

He was existing in the form (outward appearance) of God before being made in the likeness of a human being.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB
“Of course he already had a different kind of body in heaven “

tell us more

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,11:20)

Not speculation, Marty……. but scripture. He was existing in the form (outward appearance) of God before being made in the likeness of a human being.

Sorry Mike, not so. That is not what the scriptures mean.

I have already discussed this with you somewhere else.

If you are basing your beliefs founded on this speculation, there is not need for me to discuss this with you any more.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ June 02 2014,18:14)

Hi Mike: You say: Quote He was also ALREADY the Son of God before God sent him into this world You have to prove this to me with scripture before I can ever proceed with what you are trying to tell me.

How many scriptures would you like, Marty?

John 3:16, 1 John 4:9, Hebrews 1:2 & 1:6, Colossians 1:15-16, Psalm 2:7, Proverbs 30:4, Romans 8:32…………

Quote (942767 @ June 02 2014,18:14)

How on earth can this be.  When the scriptures state of him when the angel was speaking to Mary relative to the child that was going to born from her would be called the Son of the Highest, or the Son of God? He was going to be called the Son of God after he was born.

Marty, Michael the archangel is a son of God, right?  So if God decided today to have Michael born of the flesh by a human woman, could God tell her the child she will bear will be called God's son?  YES.

Does the fact that he WILL BE called God's son WHEN he is born of flesh eliminate the fact that he was ALREADY God's son BEFORE he came in the flesh?  NO.

Your point is moot.

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